[OSH]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Misinformation? Maybe/maybe not. To maintain the credibility of the forum, I'd appreciate a link to that thread/source.

I think this is coming from a post where a BHPian had claimed that according to his sources the Fiat engine was responsible for a bad crash rating but it will have a good crash rating when it comes with the petrol engine. There was no proof or anything, just a post written according to what he was told by his 'source' and now that is getting picked up.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by arjab

Maruti's reaction to the S-Presso's GNCAP test results reminded me of a certain political figure in the United States who was running for the President-ship in the recently concluded elections, subsequently lost the elections; but will simply not accept the results!

To add to it, both come in shades of bright orange

Tin dabbas from Maruti should go to the scrapyard directly from the factory. Could be a perpetual business for them. Shameless fellows!

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Misinformation? Maybe/maybe not. To maintain the credibility of the forum, I'd appreciate a link to that thread/source.

Please refer to @ram87pune's post here (2020 Tata Harrier Automatic : Official Review).

[drmohitg]

While they can bash Maruti, it also follows that the segment is different than where the Tiago sits. And entry-level customers in that segment would have safety as their last concern as they are likely upgrading from a 2-wheeler. Maruti too has got some surprising safety readings for a few of its models in the 10L range which no one expected them to. Having said that, Tata should be proud of the fact that they have managed good scores for their entire range in these tests.

[Subby]

https://www.carandbike.com/news/maru...sident-2325187

Response from Mr. David Ward of Global NCAP on statement from Maruti. Obviously Maruti was in a mood of denial about their safety ratings!

[Shashankjk]

Not a big fan of Maruti but don't be surprised if Maruti starts selling safe cars soon,the moment they realise that mass market consumers are saftey conscious now. After all no one reads the Indian car market like Maruti. If Tata has to stay in the game, just improving on saftey won't work. It has to work on all aspects, fit and finish(these are a bit better now), sales network(still not so good) and the foremost servicing networks.

[Sherlocked]

What Maruti could do to regain the confidence of us safety conscious consumers is to start introducing better built cars along with their usual product line.

For eg. the customer should have the option to pick the fuel efficient/light Swift along with a safe better built car in the same segment. Now this better built car could be a lakh expensive as well as a tad less fuel efficient, but now the customer can't complain as he has the option to make his choice. He is getting the superior Maruti Suzuki reliability as well as the un-matched after sales experience which frankly speaking is a huge plus point for many including me.

[i74js]

Originally Posted by hserus

Excellent. They've hired some good ads people.

Its seems they have picked up people from Amul advertisement team or atleast inspired from them, the reaction has to be quick. Quite happy to see confidence in TML.

[Mafia]

Off topic here:

MS may come up with a ad campaign that the only way to keep the occupants safe is if cars maintain 'social distancing'

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by OSH

I think this is coming from a post where a BHPian had claimed that according to his sources the Fiat engine was responsible for a bad crash rating but it will have a good crash rating when it comes with the petrol engine. There was no proof or anything, just a post written according to what he was told by his 'source' and now that is getting picked up.

Exactly. If there is no proof of something and it is only based on someone’s post based on “anonymous sources”, then it is unfair to spread this misinformation. Because someone will again use the post in this thread as a source and post it elsewhere. We are doubting a car-maker who has already achieved four and five Star ratings with their other smaller & less expensive vehicles. I think Tata, with the Harrier deserves being given the benefit of doubt until it is crash tested, just like Seltos or i10 Nios were given till now. May be they know it can achieve 4 star but are doing improvements to make sure it gets 5 star. We cannot predict their “confidence” levels based on their social media posts. Plus the GNCAP is a non-profit organisation that spends it’s limited resources on crash testing mass-market cars that sell in high numbers, probably like >10k per month or the cars that have already sold significant amount like 1lakh or so. Let’s wait until Harrier is tested.

[Dr.Suraj]

So,
a 0 stars S-Pressor or a 4 Star Tiago
a 2 star Grand i10 or a 5 star Altroz.
The choice is SOLELY in the hands of the customer now. The Indian consumer. Always tough to please! But if the last few months worth sales figures are anything to go by, then some people are definitely putting their money where their mouth is! Tata is enjoying a dream run. All they need to do is get more enthusiastic sales personnel and keep a CLOSE watch on their service team. Surely, with some money pouring in (fresh sales) they might be able to focus on this in the next few months.
I only wish we would see a 4 or 5 star Harrier GNCAP versus the 3 star Seltos. (soon?)

Meanwhile - seeing this from the Seltos FB page. Owners are blaming GNCAP as 'wrong', without realising that KIA isn't the first manufacturer to make 'different' spec models for India and better/safer variants sold abroad. Hilarious!

[Arjun Reddy]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Meanwhile - seeing this from the Seltos FB page. Owners are blaming GNCAP as 'wrong', without realising that KIA isn't the first manufacturer to make 'different' spec models for India and better/safer variants sold abroad. Hilarious!

This is the typical Post Purchase Syndrome. Wherein the purchase has been made and then the research begins. Less said the better.

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by Napalm

Exactly. If there is no proof of something and it is only based on someone’s post based on “anonymous sources”, then it is unfair to spread this misinformation. Because someone will again use the post in this thread as a source and post it elsewhere.

Brother,

Going by that logic, no news reports should be filed quoting sources. 'Anonymous sources' are real people, who do not want to come on record. This is how many news stories are broken. And it is a crucial part of investigative journalism.

In this case:
A fellow bhpian has provided a bit of information quoting his sources. It is up to us whether we believe his sources or not.

And unless Tata itself denounces it officially, one can certainly raise a doubt.

No one can stop anyone from doing that.

Originally Posted by Napalm

We are doubting a car-maker who has already achieved four and five Star ratings with their other smaller & less expensive vehicles. I think Tata, with the Harrier deserves being given the benefit of doubt until it is crash tested, just like Seltos or i10 Nios were given till now. May be they know it can achieve 4 star but are doing improvements to make sure it gets 5 star.

Please read @ram87pune's post (2020 Tata Harrier Automatic : Official Review) again.

I do have a Harrier. In fact, we ordered it even before launch. That's faith for you. But, still, I would like to know what is it's crash rating.

Originally Posted by Napalm

Plus the GNCAP is a non-profit organisation that spends it’s limited resources on crash testing mass-market cars that sell in high numbers, probably like >10k per month or the cars that have already sold significant amount like 1lakh or so. Let’s wait until Harrier is tested.

A manufacturer can also offer its vehicle to be tested. Read more here.

And even if GNAP is occupied with other mass market cars, the statement remains valid.

Tata's flagship is still untested.

[RijuC]

1. Tata showroom experience for most of the car buyers are below par.
2. Tata car service station/ service center experience for most of the Tata car owners are below par.
3. Tata design concept/ design elements do not appeal to everyone.
4. Tata cars had quality issues ( probably the recent cars are doing better in this front).
5. Spare availability and breakdown services in semi urban or rural areas, remote locations like hill states are still not easily available.
6. Tata cars irrational feature and pricing for Nexon, Altroz etc.; and introduction of engine / transmission types for Altroz etc. Made the car buying decisions very tough.
7. The showroom and service station experiences say they are not much serious about their cars.
Only a few good sales figures in recent months and the desi company feeling do not make customers, car owners happy.

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

Going by that logic, no news reports should be filed quoting sources. 'Anonymous sources' are real people, who do not want to come on record. This is how many news stories are broken. And it is a crucial part of investigative journalism.

Investigative journalism done by news media-houses that are registered with the I&B ministry and those "reports" are still considered rumors(the word "allegedly" or "possibly" is used) until they are proven. So lets not compare this to investigative journalism reports. If a news channel broadcasts something that is not correct/true, a punitive action can be taken immediately by the I&B ministry against it. The news channels are regulated by the govt to control misinformation. This does not apply to online blogs.

Such rules/laws have not been applicable to online news web-portals until now because they do not come under any regulations and have no credibility. But this was becoming a nuisance, so the online news web-portals (& the OTT platforms) have now been brought by the govt under the I&B ministry to control misinformation. Source: https://indianexpress.com/article/in...watch-7048347/

Example : There were numerous online news reports that Indian Army was torturing Youths in Kashmir during the curfew after abrogation of Article 370. Would you believe these reports without proof?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...7fb_story.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...-by-india-army

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

In this case:
A fellow bhpian has provided a bit of information quoting his sources. It is up to us whether we believe his sources or not.
...
No one can stop anyone from doing that.

India is a democracy and no one can stop you from thinking or believing anything. But until it is a proven fact, it is just that, a rumor. We can believe a rumor or not. That's up to us.
And I mean no offense/disrespect to the bhpian who has given this information. But it is possible that any online news portal can just take this post as a source and start spreading news that Harrier is not safe, without knowing the quantum of effect the mentioned issue might actually have on the crash rating. I mean "good" and "bad" do not quantify anything even in a rumor.

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

That's faith for you.

Good for you brother. But there was no intention to question anybody's level of faith. I just mentioned that I personally would believe a company's track record in GNCAP with their cars(goes to show their credibility), if a particular car from that company has not been tested by GNCAP yet. Tata motors have openly mentioned that they are targeting 5 star rating with each of their cars.

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

But, still, I would like to know what is it's crash rating.

As do I(& I too have mentioned the same in other forum here) and I am sure, so do many people here. There is no ambiguity or dissidence here. But I guess we don't have a choice and have to wait until that information is available in the public domain.

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

A manufacturer can also offer its vehicle to be tested.
Tata's flagship is still untested.

I am aware of these facts, all of which are already available in the public domain. The flagships of almost all car OEMs in India are untested by GNCAP. What is the point here?

Overall, I would agree with the what senior bhpian landcruiser123 mentioned in this conversation initially : "Misinformation? Maybe/maybe not. To maintain the credibility of the forum, I'd appreciate a link to that thread/source."