[PrideRed]

Are Tiago/Altroz safer than Wagon R/ Baleno? hell yes, does that mean 24lakh customer base has zero value? I don't think so. If being stranded on road results in me riding back my scooter/bike often, 4-5star safety doesnot add much value. To me, majority customer in India value reliability, A.S.S, Fuel efficiency more than Safety at this point. For me this may not be right but for a customer who is upgrading from Scooter, sitting inside a box and travelling is an upgrade. Both manufacturers have their strength's and I see opportunity for both to get rid of their weakness.

[clementw]

Like this ad series by Tata. Maruti is caught on the wrong foot and sadly after their diesel engine viability claim fiasco, everything seems suspect

[Samarth 619]

Many people think its ok for a biker to feel more safer in car. But, I beg to disagree. When you're in a car, you're surrounded by its body which is tougher than your body anyhow.

I'm primarily a biker but I've seen an accident's aftermath which is hard to describe in words..
It was a small city's turning flyover and when I arrived, in middle of a crowd, a MS car which probably crashed against the flyover wall was heavily mangled up.

The worse part was, there were people inside who were being removed one by one, by hammering and breaking the car's doors, glass and roof and parts, as apparently they were stuck and crying and fractured (I could see wrongly bent arm on one man). The doors were too damaged to be opened maybe, I don't know. An Ambulance was parked nearby, probably waiting for the new patients...
I stayed for 2 minutes and left.


A similarly insulting but lot less hurtful picture I saw on the internet in which a Triumph Tiger was rear ended by a MS... Just check this video's 13 minute onwards to see the funny part:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkNStowNJSU

When will it become body se strong?


Rajiv Bajaj had once argued that cars which are too strongly built are safe for people inside, but not people outside the car, like pedestrians.
He may have a point. But I have just one question: even if a tin can like a MS car mows down pedestrians, can we argue they'll die in lesser amounts than a BMW or Tata?

In my opinion, its better to keep the cager safe so that they can at least use the same car to transport the victim to the nearest hospital.
I hope MS upps the game, but if they don't, we all know what to purchase..

[Fury]

Maruti's reply reminds me of the famous scene in Ford vs Ferrari-

"Enzo Ferrari will go down in history as the greatest car manufacturer in the world. Is it because he made the "most cars"?? No. Its because of what his cars mean. Victory."

Swap the victory for safety and we have a very ironic repeat of history here.

[josesiju96]

I had to find out about the build quality of MS cars the hard way. I was cruising in my 2016 Vitara brezza at 50-60kmph on a state highway when out of nowhere a dog jumped in front and had a head on collision. Too bad for the dog there was no room for evasive measures and the brakes were also not effective. When I got out and checked I was shocked. The bumper had a hole in it the size of the poor animal and when I visited the service center they told me that the radiator and AC condenser unit were totally damaged and had to be replaced. When I asked why there was this much damage, they told me that the jawbone of dogs are unusually strong and that they had similar incidents in the past

[PrasunBannerjee]

Originally Posted by josesiju96

I had to find out about the build quality of MS cars the hard way. I was cruising in my 2016 Vitara brezza at 50-60kmph on a state highway when out of nowhere a dog jumped in front and had a head on collision. Too bad for the dog there was no room for evasive measures and the brakes were also not effective. When I got out and checked I was shocked. The bumper had a hole in it the size of the poor animal and when I visited the service center they told me that the radiator and AC condenser unit were totally damaged and had to be replaced. When I asked why there was this much damage, they told me that the jawbone of dogs are unusually strong and that they had similar incidents in the past

Two years back, I was passing through a semi-urban road when a big and full size buffalo suddenly headslammed another smaller (medium sized adult) buffalo and literally 'threw' it on my Chevy Beat. All the impact it had on my car was a shattered ORVM and a minor dent on my bonnet. Impact was so huge that I saw about two three teeth of it flying out, and the buffalo was in a limp for around a week. Had I been on my bike, I would not have been typing this message, not from this world at least. The car did not have airbags, or ABS. All that saved me (and the car too) was a relatively safer build. I know beat isn't the best specimen of build quality, but its not a flimsy tincan either.

There was another accident where I was in a rear seat, and that too was a near death escape, all due to the build quality of the car I was in. Came out without a single scratch Even if I had been in say a Ciaz, it would have been a little serious situation.

I'd anyday choose safer car over FE, and Mahindra and Tata are doing just the things that's right in public interest. I believe the homeboys should come together to have joint campaigns of homegrown, well engineered safer cars. This will help both as both of these brands have too much of share to gain from the unsafe competition. If anyone from Tata or Mahindra team is reading this, I urge you, more people need to be educated about safety than being mocked. These ads are sensible for better read audiences, not masses. You have too much share of market to conquer, so no need to be greedy over smaller share fights among yourselves!

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by josesiju96

The bumper had a hole in it the size of the poor animal and when I visited the service center they told me that the radiator and AC condenser unit were totally damaged and had to be replaced. When I asked why there was this much damage, they told me that the jawbone of dogs are unusually strong and that they had similar incidents in the past

Something very similar happened to my dad while he was driving his Ritz. There was no damage whatsoever except a mark on the bumper and we've carried on with that bumper since. I feel like the build quality of MSIL cars has become worse than even its predecessors. Despite my owning a VW Polo, the Ritz does not feel like a "lightly" built car.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

but for a customer who is upgrading from Scooter, sitting inside a box and travelling is an upgrade.

The point you make is a legit one, but people don't travel any more on the highway than they have to on two wheelers. Our neighbours recently travelled 1400kms on a Kwid. The safety in a metal box argument struggles a bit when you compare the number of highway miles one can munch in the two kinds of vehicles. This perception of safety may lead to people making riskier decisions. The highways they travelled on are not exactly the safest in India and are notorious for overspeeding cars.

I have read about the odd QC issues with Tata cars, that's what kept me from getting one (and the lack of a proper AT) but I've not heard of reliability concerns so far with the new crop of cars.

Originally Posted by PrasunBannerjee

Two years back, I was passing through a semi-urban road when a big and full size buffalo suddenly headslammed another smaller (medium sized adult) buffalo and literally 'threw' it on my Chevy Beat. All the impact it had on my car was a shattered ORVM and a minor dent on my bonnet. Impact was so huge that I saw about two three teeth of it flying out, and the buffalo was in a limp for around a week. Had I been on my bike, I would not have been typing this message, not from this world at least. The car did not have airbags, or ABS. All that saved me (and the car too) was a relatively safer build.

I've a story that's over a decade old. This was back when we had a Maruti 800. During a buffalo fight, something similar happened and one of them threw the other one on the bonnet of our car. It fell off quickly though. The damage? Just needed to replace the bonnet. No other issues. This was a Maruti 800!

To compare that with my Baleno. In my university parking, people were habitual of resting their behinds on the cars. There were plenty of small "imprints" in the sheet metal of the bonnet and one on the door of my Baleno. No pressing, pushing, no, just resting their tushy on the car. Those irked me to no end.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

does that mean 24lakh customer base has zero value? I don't think so.

Coke has sold maybe 24 crore cans worldwide. It doesn't mean I am going to drive something that appears to have thinner sheet metal than a coke can.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by hserus

Coke has sold maybe 24 crore cans worldwide. It doesn't mean I am going to drive something that appears to have thinner sheet metal than a coke can.

For those 24 crore folks probably coke was what was affordable, hygenic or tastier. Even with increased number health conscious folks, tin cans do sell even now, which means there is need/demand. I don't drink Coke, but if I am offered an option between coke and fruit juice in a steel tumbler from road size vendor, I would pickup Coke.

[TrackDay]

I would say Maruti needs to change it's whole game. Why not respond by making safer cars ? They brought in the whole AMT revolution here, Why not on safety ?

They should bank on the so called whole family fan base and bring in a revolution with safer cars. Yes, mileage may drop, But a human life is more precious.

[Neversaygbye]

Originally Posted by josesiju96

I had to find out about the build quality of MS cars the hard way. I was cruising in my 2016 Vitara brezza at 50-60kmph on a state highway when out of nowhere a dog jumped in front and had a head on collision. Too bad for the dog there was no room for evasive measures and the brakes were also not effective. When I got out and checked I was shocked. The bumper had a hole in it the size of the poor animal and when I visited the service center they told me that the radiator and AC condenser unit were totally damaged and had to be replaced. When I asked why there was this much damage, they told me that the jawbone of dogs are unusually strong and that they had similar incidents in the past

Slightly OT but since we are on the subject of safety and build quality, mentioning this. I can so relate to your experience. Was doing 100 kmph on NH-2 in my Vista with 3 other passengers when a dog decided to commit suicide and jumped in front of my car. It was so sudden that there was absolutely no time to even brake. The front bumper was smashed and one fog lamp broke off and went on its own trip but other than that there was no damage to the rest of the car and it was perfectly drivable although the bumper was scraping the road. Drove the car to the service center and I only had to pay for a new bumper and fog lamp (the other one was undamaged). My friend hit a dog at 60kmph a few months later in his Swift Dzire and the outcome was exactly the same as yours. Bumper, radiator and AC condenser had to be replaced or repaired. I was a fan of the original Swift and Wagon R and had even considered purchasing them, but have sworn off MS cars now. Apart from the risk to life and limb, the repair costs for any accident are also much higher than better built cars from other manufacturers. This is one aspect that many people don't consider. Also MS cars degrade very fast. After 3-4 years they become full of rattles. That has been the experience with all my friends' cars without exception.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

For those 24 crore folks probably coke was what was affordable, hygenic or tastier. Even with increased number health conscious folks, tin cans do sell even now, which means there is need/demand. I don't drink Coke, but if I am offered an option between coke and fruit juice in a steel tumbler from road size vendor, I would pickup Coke.

Why “street vendor”? Is the Nexon or XUV 3OO some sort of jugaad made in a backstreet Patna workshop using scrapped tempo parts and a pump set or bullet motor?

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Maruti reply with sales numbers to Tata Motors after Twitter jibe on WagonR

It's a stupid way of twisting things. Just because 24 lakh poor, uninformed souls have bought a tin box, doesn't make the tin box a safe car. Typical politician's speech, instead of addressing the issue, point out some other random thing.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by hserus

Why “street vendor”? Is the Nexon or XUV 3OO some sort of jugaad made in a backstreet Patna workshop using scrapped tempo parts and a pump set or bullet motor?

Aren't street vendors supposed to be good if not all? I did not degrade and there are folks who prefer them over coke. They actually might be reliable, safer, healthier than coke but unless proven my preference would be coke. Coming to cars, Tata and Mahindra have competitive cars now, however they don't have long proven record as competition. Safety is proven, let other aspect follow the suit and I don't mind picking them.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Aren't street vendors supposed to be good if not all? I did not degrade and there are folks who prefer them over coke. They actually might be reliable, safer, healthier than coke but unless proven my preference would be coke. Coming to cars, Tata and Mahindra have competitive cars now, however they don't have long proven record as competition. Safety is proven, let other aspect follow the suit and I don't mind picking them.

Suzuki India's track record also shows that they stubbornly refuse to make their Indian-market cars safe. Which is what this thread is about in the first place.

If that 'track record' suffices your requirements in a car, so be it. You are one of the whatever lakh customer base who are happy and content! It is maruti who has 'degraded' their customers, of being only worthy enough of whatever safety requirements (or lack thereof) that Suzuki deems fit for them!

If one wants to buy and drive a tin-box, so be it. There is no need to justify the choice. Also Tata and Mahindra aren't the only options available. Literally half a dozen car makers in India, all of whom can muster at least a star in crash tests. Lack of choice is not an excuse.