Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th November 2020, 12:48   #16
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 207
Thanked: 410 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

On a related note, @mods I wonder if we should have similar threads on other car makers who seem to be repurposing their cores for India. VWs new MQB A0-IN being a case in point. I keep on wondering if buying anything based on the platform from the VW stable will be worth it given all the noise around cost cutting for India. Do Honda and Toyota make similar changes to the core architecture of their vehicles?
Annibaddh is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 17th November 2020, 14:00   #17
Distinguished - BHPian
 
neil.jericho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cochin
Posts: 2,529
Thanked: 8,533 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
The Indian Santro (AH2) hasn't been compared with a First World Santro because the latter does not exist. This generation of the Santro (AH2) began its life as an India-specific car, but is now also sold in some other developing markets of the world. The car isn't sold in any First World country, just like the car it replaced (i.e. Eon). The Santro is the same car in all the developing markets it is sold in, and there are no different versions of the car that can be compared side by side.
RSR, these certainly are interesting posts. Please do keep them coming. Are the AH2 Santros sold in developing countries manufactured in India and then exported? Or are they manufactured locally? I am interested in finding out how you were able to ascertain that there are no different versions of the AH2 Santro.

I understand that you are comparing Indian Hyundais with developed market ones on this thread, but for the sake of scientific completeness, I hope you can post similar structural comparisons of the Indian Hyundai cars with other developing market ones. Maybe on a different thread at a later point of time?
neil.jericho is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 17th November 2020, 14:29   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
DicKy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Thiruvanthapuram
Posts: 2,080
Thanked: 3,155 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

So far the expensive models have turned out to be same as their international counterparts, but again begs the question, why the 'i' prefix/suffix? Kia also has the 'i' specific chassis codes.

Waiting for the cheaper models, especially i20.
As said above, while the likes of Santro could be written off as Indian market only, models like the i20 and Venue, if there are serious difference, will show the double standards adopted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Consider this, for example, a premium car maker hardly sells 10k cars a year, and probably 1k cars of a certain type, and with sub variants. Now trying to make a change to a chassis member or so is a big deal at the R&D side and it will never justify the costs involved....

When it comes to players like MS, Hyundai, India is a big market for them and the regulations here are not that stringent in comparison to Europe or USA. Due to this, they resort to making country specific changes......
On the other hand, consider Indian manufacturers who want to make a mark globally. For them, it will make no sense to work on a different chassis material or special reinforcement for something like the European market...The extra cost they will incur over the extra metal or reinforcement to chassis would not be a significant one. For the customer, this feels like a blessing in disguise.

Similarly, if we take a look at the automotive scene in Pakistan, we are sure to get baffled. They still have the first gen Marutis on sale along with a few newer cars, but with barebone features like a Euro 2 engine, ABS, etc which are standard in our market. For a few cars which are CBU, they get an up to date kit since again, the lower volumes these cars sell will make the manufacturer really not customize it for the country. That is how the whole setup works for the manufacturer.
Spot on observation.

Call it the boon and bane of a big market.

Boon - You get country specific models, designed for local conditions. Less worry, not only in the design, but also after sales support in both spare parts and service.
Don't have to worry about being stranded without parts. For example, for India. Powerful a/c compressor, higher ground clearance,fuel options, rough road packages, storage, rear seat importance...

Bane - Less options overall. For non volume segments, the manufacturer decides the engine/trim options.
Watered down models, since the market size is larger, manufacturers find way to maximize profit by volume sales.
If the regulatory norms of your country is weak, get ready to be dumped with older technology or unsafe structures.
And since larger market means local manufacturing. Imports will be either exorbitantly priced or banned altogether.

So yes, smaller markets that can only import cars will get a US/Euro/JDM spec vehicle.
Only problem is after sales support, not being suited for local conditions and most importantly, higher entry price points.
We can buy a brand new car for under 4 lakhs. A developed world new car may cost around 12 lakhs roughly.
DicKy is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 17th November 2020, 16:06   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 12
Thanked: 37 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

@BHPian RSR,
Thanks a lot for sharing such wonderful information.
Going through this thread and the old one I have a question

Q: From the previous thread, I was analyzing the Creta 1st Gen and 2nd Gen platforms. Looks like the 2nd Gen Creta has lot of High Strength Steel and some Advanced High Strength Steel. This is definitely a good thing. My question is, is there any information that the KIA Seltos is based on the 1st Gen Creta platform or 2nd Gen Creta platform? If in case the answer is 1st Gen, then I feel that the new Creta might fare better in the GNCAP test if tested.

I request other BHPians to please share their views on the same.
bpapache is offline  
Old 17th November 2020, 16:11   #20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: HYDERABAD
Posts: 10
Thanked: 3 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Not only are the cars are different but also the complete models (lineup) is not usually available in India.
asrarcool is offline  
Old 17th November 2020, 17:11   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bombay
Posts: 720
Thanked: 885 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Another thing that comes to mind. The tyres the manufacturer usually provides in India are cheaper. Also, Indian cars seldom hit the speeds of their Western counterparts because of our roads or lack thereof.

Not surprised about both - safety features and cutting down on quality to improve fuel efficiency.
invidious is offline  
Old 17th November 2020, 17:36   #22
BHPian
 
Carpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 530
Thanked: 729 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Excellent thread. Waiting for other models from Hyundai stable. Also, if possible can we get data from other manufacturers as well.

I have a noob question. Say after a frontal collision even in a structurally safe car, does it hold its structural integrity or ruggedness after repair even from an authorised dealer.
Carpainter is offline  
Old 17th November 2020, 17:42   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 40
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Wonderful thread @RSR. I was recently going through the brochure of the 5th gen Honda City where they have proudly mentioned 5-star rating which the car achieved in ASEAN NCAP rating. Even though a disclaimer says "for car manufactured and sold in Thailand", even such "mention" can turn out to be misleading since Indian spec has different dimensions including a longer wheelbase.

I hope this thread can include all mainstream India spec models. Keep going sir��
kkstile is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 17th November 2020, 17:51   #24
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 30
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Thanks for taking the effort to explain with diagrams but, if these are just diagrams and not actually CAD models, how would one determine the thickness of the sheet metal in different regions?

I am not sure if you have mentioned that the sheet metal thickness is the same. Or have you?

Last edited by Utham123 : 17th November 2020 at 18:18.
Utham123 is offline  
Old 17th November 2020, 18:58   #25
Newbie
 
Allterrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Chennai
Posts: 17
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Mod note: Post edited. Please leave a paragraph break for readability. Thanks.

I maybe digressing here but I feel there is another aspect to this discussion.While the whole discussion is around body panel and structural steel, I would like to draw every ones attention to various component parts which go into Engine, transmission etc.

When a new model is introduced in India by overseas brands , they start an indigenization drive after some time to keep cost under check. Indian component suppliers start supplying parts against the drawing from the parent company of the Indian subsidiary. No concessions are given in terms of accuracy and tolerances.

After some time the Indian supplier also starts exporting components to the OEMs overseas locations. This is a very typical trend (price advantage) and I know this for sure as I work for a major Tier-2 component supplier in India.

To some customers we also take part in the design stage of the component. Our Indian auto component industry has come a long way and there is no distinction made as to whether the part is supplied to Indian facility or overseas one.

Last edited by Jaggu : 17th November 2020 at 19:04.
Allterrain is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 17th November 2020, 19:10   #26
SR7
BHPian
 
SR7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Chennai
Posts: 58
Thanked: 138 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Apart from CBUs and perhaps CKDs, every car manufactured and sold in India differs from the ones sold in developed markets in one way or many ways.

In this thread, we shall deal with Hyundais sold in India and compare them with Hyundais sold in the developed First World markets. To be specific, I shall reveal the chassis diagrams that show the strength of steel used for chassis members, both of Indian Hyundais and the corresponding First World Hyundais, and compare them side by side.

From the least expensive Hyundai car currently sold in India to the most expensive one, and everything inbetween, we shall take a look at each one separately in a separate post.
This is an informative thread! Can you please publish the structural diagrams of the Elantra sold here (6th gen pre-facelift) vs the Elantras sold abroad? I have a 2017 model SX(O) AT VTVT - I believe the CKD kits are imported from Korea.

The 2016/2017 Elantra had secured high safety ratings from the US IIHS, 5-stars in ASEAN NCAP for the version with ESC and 5-stars in Australasian NCAP (ANCAP). However, the driver knee airbag has been deleted compared to the US version in the ASEAN NCAP, ANCAP & Indian versions; the Indian version has only a 2-point seatbelt for the middle passenger where as the ASEAN and ANCAP version have 3-point seatbelts (Correct me ignore I am wrong) for all forward facing seats - ISOFIX anchorages aren't available in the Indian version.

The kerb weight of the models are all around 1,300-1,340 kgs. The RC of my Elantra mentions the weight of the car as 1,338 kg which is in-line with the versions sold in the US market.

A structural diagram would be really helpful and would validate my choice of a CKD (if the Indian version uses the same structures) that I deemed to be safe! Thanks in advance!

Last edited by SR7 : 17th November 2020 at 19:11.
SR7 is offline  
Old 17th November 2020, 20:27   #27
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 60
Thanked: 102 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

I own a 2014 grand i10 which has a feature list that can still beat the cars double its price. So I was always proud of it until I went on a trip to London in 2018.

I saw a few grand i10s there and was surprised to see the differences. The European version of my car was bigger, had more safety features and looked totally different than what we have here in India.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 18th November 2020 at 22:12. Reason: Typos.
TheVegabond is offline   (2) Thanks Received Infraction
Old 17th November 2020, 22:16   #28
RSR
Senior - BHPian
 
RSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,803
Thanked: 6,457 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Now, let's take a look at the Grand i10 Nios.

Actually, the previous generation Grand i10 continues to be sold in India now, in petrol manual guise in two variants only. The sedan version Xcent has been discontinued for private buyers, and is available only in a taxi-spec variant called Xcent Prime. Both, Grand i10 & Xcent have the same codename, BA. The Grand i10 will also be discontinued soon in India, or it may only be available as a taxi-spec Grand i10 Prime.

I was not able to get the chassis diagrams of the Grand i10/Xcent (BA) in the form we have seen so far. They are available instead as diagrams showing the individual chassis members. I'm skipping the Grand i10/Xcent as comparing the individual chassis members making up the monocoque would appear very different on this thread.

So, let's take a look at the next least expensive model in Hyundai's Indian line-up, the Grand i10 Nios. Grand i10 Nios and Aura have a common codename, AI3, as they are basically the same car. Grand i10 Nios is internally known as the AI3 - 5 door and Aura as the AI3 - 4 door.

The First World model that's similar to the Indian Grand i10 Nios is simply called the i10 (3rd generation). It's sold only in Europe and its codename is AC3.

Indian Grand i10 Nios (AI3) and European i10 (AC3) - how different are they?



The answer to the above question in one sentence is, they are somewhat different. Before we get to the chassis diagrams, let us compare the two cars externally. The two have slightly different external styling at the front and rear, and also have different dimensions.

Indian Grand i10 Nios (AI3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011171740452.png

European i10 (AC3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011171737302.png

As one can see from the above images,

  • Grand i10 Nios @ 3805 mm is 135 mm longer than the Euro i10 @ 3670 mm.

  • At 2450 mm, Grand i10 Nios has a 25 mm longer wheelbase compared to the Euro i10's 2425 mm.

  • Grand i10 Nios is also 40 mm taller, but that's due to the increased GC, differently sized wheels & tyres and those integrated roof rails.

  • Both cars have the same width.


Now, let's compare the monocoques of both cars.

Top view from the front

Indian Grand i10 Nios (AI3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011131712583.png

European i10 (AC3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011131716332.png


Top view from the rear

Indian Grand i10 Nios (AI3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011131712332.png

European i10 (AC3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011131717272.png


Bottom view

Indian Grand i10 Nios (AI3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011131712473.png

European i10 (AC3):

Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?-screenshot_202011131717022.png

Legend:

Grey denotes mild steel

Blue denotes high strength steel

Red denotes ultra high strength steel


As one can observe from the above images, there are differences in the strength of steel used for some members between the two cars. From the top view (both front & rear), they appear largely similar with some minor differences. The bottom view is where we find the major differences between the two:

  • Euro i10 uses ultra high strength steel for two central longitudinal members under the front of the cabin, while the Grand i10 Nios has those members in high strength steel.

  • The flat sections of the floor (between the longitudinal members) and also the centre tunnel portion on the Euro i10 are made of high strength steel, while the Grand i10 Nios has them in mild steel.


So, as we can observe from these diagrams, the Indian Grand i10 Nios (AI3) shares the same K1 platform with the European i10 (AC3) and is a longer car with a longer wheelbase, but there definitely are differences in the strength of steel used for some platform members.

Coming up in the next post: We shall jump to the other side of the price spectrum in India, as usual. After an EV, an SUV and two hatchbacks, we shall take a look at a sedan, the Hyundai Elantra.

Last edited by RSR : 17th November 2020 at 22:46.
RSR is offline   (37) Thanks
Old 17th November 2020, 22:17   #29
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 361
Thanked: 678 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Other than telling that Hyundai sells some models, same as in other markets, whereas some other models are India specific, backed by some 3D images, this thread doesn't give any other value addition. The 3D images posted have little value unless supported by other technical parameters that goes into the design of the chassis.

Last edited by GTO : 18th November 2020 at 08:07. Reason: Please do NOT post in a rude manner on this forum
chaudh2s is offline   (2) Thanks Received Infraction
Old 17th November 2020, 22:24   #30
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 14,700
Thanked: 50,808 Times
Default Re: Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
Other than telling that Hyundai sells some models, same as in other markets, whereas some other models are India specific, backed by some 3D images, this thread doesn't give any other value addition.
Judging by the timestamp - I'm pretty sure you didn't read the above post before commenting. Please do and revisit your opinion on the thread!

Now this is concrete proof of what Hyundai has changed in an Indian car, compared to the international version. Haven't come across anything like this on the internet - and trust me, I have done a fair amount of research on the topic.

@RSR: Absolutely brilliant find with the i10. Hyundai has clearly used high strength steel for India, instead of ultra high strength - and mild steel instead of high strength steel. No wonder our cars fail the tests spectacularly! This also dispels all the myths (without an iota of doubt) that the failures are due to platform differences instead!

Looking forward to updates on important cars like the new Creta and i20.

Last edited by GTO : 18th November 2020 at 08:08. Reason: Quoted post edited
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (32) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks