[tirumalavoleti]

India is a special country where there is a big need for more cars, safer cars, greener cars and especially economic cars.

As the most pollution comes from City/Urban areas, it is very important to promote the EV as being done by Govt of India.

Now the biggest concern for many is the range issue. Most of the Indian families could not afford two cars, one for city being electric and the other for highway drives using fossil fuels. Come to current era, there are cars with plugin hybrid. This solves the city pollution with pure electric drive and range concern with regular fuel available on the highways. This even does not impact the charging time as well.

It would solve the problem for next 10 years usage before the pure EV becomes main stream with strong EV infra.

What is it stopping the mainstream manufacturers in India from making the pluginHybrid?

[Beelzebub]

One of the main reasons is tax on hybrid vehicles. The EVs are charged 5% GST, while hybrid vehicles are charges whopping 43% tax. Also, EVs are given several incentives by Govt (E.g. Road tax exemption by Delhi Govt), but these are not applicable to Hybrid vehicles.

Some manufactures (e.g. Toyota) and Transport minister Nitin Gadkari are demanding for GST cut on hybrid vehicle (Link) and want it to be priced in line with Electric Vehicles. On the other hand, other manufacturers (Merc, Tata, Mahindra, Hyundai Source) are not in favor of GST cut on Hybrid and want to promote EVs.

If the proposal for GST cut on Hybrid is accepted by Govt, then we might see some investment in India by manufacturers in this sector.

[tirumalavoleti]

That is the case for normal hybrids. Plugin Hybrids are no less than EV and could be provided GST and road tax benefits

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by tirumalavoleti

Plugin Hybrids are no less than EV and could be provided GST and road tax benefits

The problem is that people may purchase these plug-in hybrids and avail tax benefits but run them as normal petrol cars, i.e., don't charge them at every opportunity or at all. This doesn't help the environment or the government.

Link

“Investigations also show PHEVs often switch on their engine even when driving with supposedly zero emissions,” the paper said, adding that it was clear that “PHEV emissions are much more comparable to those of conventional cars than electric cars.”

Link

The real-world share of electric driving for PHEVs, on average, is about half the share considered in the type-approval values. For private cars, the average utility factor (UF)—the portion of kilometers driven on electric motor versus kilometers driven on combustion engine—is 69% for NEDC type approval but only around 37% for real-world driving.

If PHEVs are used as intended, they can help to reduce emissions. However, there is no way to ensure this. Secondly, most manufacturers provide PHEVs with only a 3.7kWh AC charging option. This means that if someone goes on a long trip, even a one hour break will not be enough to add more than 10-15km of electric range in most cases. So there is not much incentive to charge either.

[Mortis]

I'm all for it. PHEV would have been the perfect stopgap solution till we are capable of going fully electric.
@StarrySky A series hybrid would still pollute less than a gas powered car even when run on pure petrol because the engine doesn't power the wheels directly. It acts as a generator and charges the battery while running at a constant speed which is more efficient and less polluting.
The charging speed doesn't matter much because that added 10-15km won't be of any use on the highway because at those speeds the engine would kick in anyway.

Too bad Maruti screwed us all by gaming the system with their useless SVHS crap which soured govt sentiments towards hybrids and stuck them in a higher tax bracket

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by Mortis

@StarrySky A series hybrid would still pollute less than a gas powered car even when run on pure petrol because the engine doesn't power the wheels directly.

I agree, but are manufacturers focussing on series hybrids now? They seem to be focussed more on pure EVs. Even BMW seems to have stopped i3 range extender version (at least in EU) as the range gains in the EV version has made range extender irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Mortis

The charging speed doesn't matter much because that added 10-15km won't be of any use on the highway because at those speeds the engine would kick in anyway.

Newer PHEVs are offering pure electric range between 50-70km and also claim that the vehicle can run in pure EV mode at highway speeds - upto 70mph (112kph) or so. So, the ability to fully charge the 10-15kWh battery offered in a typical PHEV within one hour would be great for a long trip. Of course, the battery won't last 50-70km at highway speeds, but still. I know Mercedes provides a 22kW DC charging option with A and B class PHEVs. Hopefully more manufacturers will follow suit.

[GTO]

I've been a big believer of proper hybrids (not plug-in) for India as they could double the FE of mainstream cars overnight. No brand took the plunge and as of now, it sure looks like India is going straight to EVs.

But plug-in hybrids? Naah. I never thought too much of them. If I have to "plug in" something, it might as well be an EV.

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by GTO

I've been a big believer of proper hybrids (not plug-in) for India as they could double the FE of mainstream cars overnight. No brand took the plunge and as of now, it sure looks like India is going straight to EVs.

But plug-in hybrids? Naah. I never thought too much of them. If I have to "plug in" something, it might as well be an EV.

I don't think all Plug in Hybrids require you to charge the battery using a charger. That bit is optional to top up the battery for cheap and save gas. Otherwise the battery is changed by the engine running like a generator.

[lina]

Originally Posted by GTO

I've been a big believer of proper hybrids (not plug-in) for India as they could double the FE of mainstream cars overnight. No brand took the plunge and as of now, it sure looks like India is going straight to EVs.

But plug-in hybrids? Naah. I never thought too much of them. If I have to "plug in" something, it might as well be an EV.

Have you checked out the RAV4 prime? I really feel thats the perfect type of hybrid. About 100km of pure EV range that will satisfy the daily commuting needs of most people. A very capable ICE to take you on long cruises and it is an AWD where the ICE and motor can work together.

People will opt to plug in and drive most of the days because EV running costs will be considerably cheaper.

[tirumalavoleti]

Originally Posted by lina

Have you checked out the RAV4 prime? I really feel thats the perfect type of hybrid. About 100km of pure EV range that will satisfy the daily commuting needs of most people. A very capable ICE to take you on long cruises and it is an AWD where the ICE and motor can work together.

People will opt to plug in and drive most of the days because EV running costs will be considerably cheaper.

Absolutely perfect single car for all the purposes. India is missing big time on PHEV.

The main USP is, there is no need of multiple cars.

The more the charging facilities delayed, the more is the EV adoption delayed.

I am sure people would prefer plugin charging at home and use the fuels for highway drives only.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by tirumalavoleti

What is it stopping the mainstream manufacturers in India from making the pluginHybrid?

I feel Plug-in Hybrids never made sense because the gasoline engine takes over when it deems fit and the range on pure electric mode is too less to even consider them!

Self-charging hybrids make more sense than plug-in ones. But they never really took off due to high initial costs.

If Honda can launch the City or HR-V hybrid in India at a not too exorbitant cost, they can change the hybrid game in India.

I still feel we should go the hybrid way before going full electric, by then enough infrastructure can be built for electric cars.

[sgiitk]

I for one am not in favour of hybrids. You have a weight disadvantage which is crucial. Yes, in our summer AC is a necessity. Still I no longer support the hybrids. Hybrids picked up a bad name since any car with a trace of energy saving was labelled a Hybrid!

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by GTO

But plug-in hybrids? Naah. I never thought too much of them. If I have to "plug in" something, it might as well be an EV.

I actually have the exact opposite view. I love the hybrids but the PHEVs take that convenience a step further.

If you could own an EV with zero range anxiety on that one annual trip from Bbay to Goa or to the middle of a jungle resort, wouldn’t a PHEV be ideal (instead of an EV?). And yet, for the rest of the year, its just like owning any other EV? To my mind you’ve got the EV that you said is acceptable and, which for a user who runs less than 50-60 kms a day can largely operate 100% on EV mode, and yet doesn’t need a second car for that 200 kms trip. In terms of net fuel efficiency, I would imagine it should be comparable to a full system hybrid on a typical 200 km run (before it gets charged), assuming its run 50 - 70 kms of that distance on EV and the rest on conventional fuel.

[padmrajravi]

I favor the plug in hybrids especially in cases where people can afford. I don't understand the reasoning behind luxury manufactures abandoning IC engines and going fully electric. I think luxury vehicles should be plug in hybrids and cheap cars should go pure electric. It gives you the flexibility of having both. Isn't luxury all about flexibility ?

Also in the near future petrol prices will become unaffordable for the middle car. So you now have an expensive commodity that gives you the added flexibility . Isn't that the perfect recipe for vanity ? I think there will be a future where plug in hybrids will be the luxury and pure electric cars will be the poor man's choice.

[Yodakank]

Folks- I wanted to revive this thread- this is an apt discussion now as many PHEVs have reached a range of 60-70KM on pure electric charge where you can plug in and charge at home almost every day if need be. Only for highways and other long drives we can switch to fossil fuels until the charging infrastructure in India reaches a scale where range anxiety is a thing of past for EV led long drives. I heard great reviews on 2022 Hyundai Tucson's PHEV model. I really hope they launch that model in India. Are they are other PHEVs SUV models that BHPians can recommend?