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Old 10th December 2020, 12:28   #76
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

Govt needs money for both its running as well working towards benefit of society (Infrastructure / subsidies etc). Source is mostly from taxes (GST, Income tax, road tax and so) along with other areas.

We expect too many subsidies or exemptions for various reasons (valid or illogical) and hence govt looks to tax fuel high since one way or the other everyone pays to move !

If taxable public goes up / gst is paid properly, govt can start reducing the taxes. Till then we will end up paying up high prices. Covid derailed a lot of revenue avenues' as well.
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Old 10th December 2020, 12:30   #77
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by pawank View Post
This is a general trend, not a law. State government can increase or decrease their VAT too. Excise duty is around 32-33 rupees while VAT is around 17 rupees in many states. Both centre and state have their fair share in looting the people when the opportunity came.
I was mentioning the percentage increase in looting by different governments in my place. Over the years one government has increase the tax rate by 200 percent and the other government by 10 percentage. Now you can calculate the share in looting mathematically and come to a conclusion.

Last edited by anb : 10th December 2020 at 12:47.
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Old 10th December 2020, 12:38   #78
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

Never trust any political party. When in opposition they said that the common man was affected by the price hike, when in power they say it does not matter. At this rate we should walk more
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Old 10th December 2020, 12:47   #79
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

When in power the language of political parties and their supporters change. They say it is required for infrastructure and subsidies. But when they sit in the opposition they criticise the government and count as the failure of the government to provide petrol/ diesel/lpg at affordable prices. So let us hope these taxes which are collected equally from a cab driver and a high end car owner are being used for the welfare of the society as a whole.
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Old 10th December 2020, 12:51   #80
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by bharanidharang View Post
Govt needs money for both its running as well working towards benefit of society (Infrastructure / subsidies etc). Source is mostly from taxes (GST, Income tax, road tax and so) along with other areas.

We expect too many subsidies or exemptions for various reasons (valid or illogical) and hence govt looks to tax fuel high since one way or the other everyone pays to move !

If taxable public goes up / gst is paid properly, govt can start reducing the taxes. Till then we will end up paying up high prices. Covid derailed a lot of revenue avenues' as well.
I dont expect subsidies from the Government on a regular basis. But I also expect that the money paid in the form of taxes is not WASTED on giant statues (anywhere) and Central Vistas. I am sure the people whose statues are being built would have provided wiser counsel, especially the person whose statue is being built off the sea- he was known for his brilliant administrative acumen even in the short span of his establishing the kingdom.
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Old 10th December 2020, 12:52   #81
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by sunny29584 View Post
Check this:

Kerala Doctor Runs Tata Nexon EV Using Solar Power:
https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/1...o-run-his-car/

Aptera is back with a new EV it says doesn’t need charging:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/6/2...arging-vehicle
Many point to an EV as if it will change the outgo on taxes. I would charge for the area exposed to sunlight. Unless you can manufacture solar panels out of thin air and fly in your own airspace, I can think of a zillion ways to make you pay. In fact, I would even make you pay taxes for not using an IC vehicle. I can think of making you pay even if you are dead (don't want to give any more ideas to the government)
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Old 10th December 2020, 12:58   #82
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by anb View Post
Over the years one government has increase the tax rate by 200 percent and the other government by 10 percentage. Now you can calculate the share.
State government didn't increased their tax because they are already getting more money than the centre. Do you know that state too has a share of around 40% in excise duty(charged by centre) on fuel? Add VAT(collected by state)+state's share on excise duty. VAT in Kerala is around 32% and their share in excise duty is around 40%. So the final percent of tax which the state of Kerala get on fuel is around 72%. Now tell me who is the real devil?
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Old 10th December 2020, 13:01   #83
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I dont expect subsidies from the Government on a regular basis. But I also expect that the money paid in the form of taxes is not WASTED on giant statues (anywhere) and Central Vistas. I am sure the people whose statues are being built would have provided wiser counsel, especially the person whose statue is being built off the sea- he was known for his brilliant administrative acumen even in the short span of his establishing the kingdom.
I think while we are on the subject of unnecessary expenditure by the government, we must not forget the huge amounts spent on salaries, pensions and benefits for government employees. Someone pointed me to an article that says we spend 8% of our GDP on salaries, but I think it is far beyond that. Someone more knowledgeable about these kinds of data can provide more accurate information. A lot of the perks provided, like free vehicles and accommodation are not included in the the 8%, I'm sure.
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Old 10th December 2020, 13:02   #84
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

Petrol Price overview from my Beat's refueling for the year 2020 (Delhi).

Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80-screenshot_20201210_125258_mycar.activity.jpg

02-01 2020 - Rs. 75.50
18-03-2020 - Rs. 69.59
15-09-2020 - Rs. 81.55
09-12-2020 - Rs. 83.71

Cheers!
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Old 10th December 2020, 13:24   #85
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I dont expect subsidies from the Government on a regular basis. But I also expect that the money paid in the form of taxes is not WASTED on giant statues (anywhere) and Central Vistas. I am sure the people whose statues are being built would have provided wiser counsel, especially the person whose statue is being built off the sea- he was known for his brilliant administrative acumen even in the short span of his establishing the kingdom.
I agree to the point on wastage on non-useful stuff. We unfortunately are a society driven by one up man ship.
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Old 10th December 2020, 13:32   #86
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawank View Post
State government didn't increased their tax because they are already getting more money than the centre. Do you know that state too has a share of around 40% in excise duty(charged by centre) on fuel? Add VAT(collected by state)+state's share on excise duty. VAT in Kerala is around 32% and their share in excise duty is around 40%. So the final percent of tax which the state of Kerala get on fuel is around 72%. Now tell me who is the real devil?
This is where you have been misinformed. All the states combined gets 40 % of Basic excise duty of fuels. Centre government smartly avoided increasing basic excise duty, they increased " ADDITIONAL (SPECIAL) EXCISE DUTY" and some road cess so that states will not get the benefit. Another point is that 40 percent is for all the states. If you calculate 40 % share for every state, you will get into conclusion that 12 times the basic excise duty (1200%) collected goes to states which makes no sense. State of Kerala gets only 2 percent of the 40 percent of basic excise duty. How much is 2 percent of 40 % of basic excise duty ? it is 0.08 percent of Basic excise duty. How much is the basic excise duty of petrol and diesel ? please do the 72 % calculation again with actual facts and figures and come to a conclusion
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Last edited by anb : 10th December 2020 at 13:45.
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Old 10th December 2020, 13:36   #87
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Does anyone feel like me here? I am actually happy. Both income tax payers (like me) and non income tax payers like so called farmers, politicians and businessmen need to buy in the same market. So pay the same price for petrol/diesel. Let govt increase it more so that latter also (forced to) pay more taxes...however, govt ought to stop double taxing IT payers like us :-( -BJ
Sorry but that is a very weird thing to say IMHO. It is just like saying, "I am happy being robbed the second time, at least I am accompanied by everyone this time around"!

By the way, I was talking about the fuel prices with a friend of mine who is the son of an MLA. The thing he told me was very disheartening, to say the least, but of which he was too proud. He said, no matter how much the economy of a state or for that matter even India goes down, the MP's and MLA's would be the last people to be affected by it.
Reason = Their salaries and allowances are decided by them only. Salaries are bound to be increased every 5 years irrespective of how high they already are or get. Not just that, they have the power to amend the salary law and increase their salaries any time they want.

Also, they are exempted from Toll Taxes completely. Medical, Electricity, Travel, Internet allowances are there for them. The house is also either given by the government or compensated in form of allowance too!
BTW the travel allowance includes money for fuel of not just the official car, but even the personal cars and the motorcade as well.

If that was not adequate, there is a pension for the rest of life and that too a very wholesome amount.

This means you don't have to pay for House, Tolls, Internet, Medical, Fuel and you even don't have to care about any savings because of a pension!
Note: The salary itself is in 5 digits.

Cheers!

Last edited by Rambo-RS : 10th December 2020 at 13:51.
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Old 10th December 2020, 13:59   #88
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

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Originally Posted by srini1785 View Post
1. New car buyers would be cautious. So that translates to more money spent on other things. Direct boost to economy.
A lot of cars are bought on loan so no and even otherwise, not buying a car does not mean you would something else.

Apart from real estate, Auto sector is a huge contributor to GDP and employment so a fall in car sales indirectly hurts everyone. For the EV point, I have 3 friends looking to buy cars now and even with a 15 lakh budget they aren't looking at the Nexon EV, anyone with a bigger budget than that won't care much about the fuel hike anyway.

Below post on another thread shows how EVs aren't even that cost efficient yet - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/elect...ml#post4743380 (EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?)

Quote:
The issue I face with EVs is that with just 9000-10000 km per year of running, the premium that you pay for EVs does not make economic sense. Eg a Hyundai Kona costs ₹ 25 lakhs vs ₹15 lakhs for a Hyundai Creta top end version. The ₹ 10 lakh premium amortised over 7 years works out to over ₹ 2 lakhs per year, or over ₹20-22 per km.

A Petrol car would cost about ₹11-12 per km to run - so even ignoring charging costs, the extra ₹9-11 per km is just too expensive for me.
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Old 10th December 2020, 14:11   #89
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

I find it amusing to see the amount of misinformation being believed as truth. That high fuel prices are justified by saying that the government needs money for welfare schemes makes me believe that the previous governments were looting some other country to fund the previous schemes !!

I de-regulation of fuel prices has been turned on its head by the present dispensation. As explained above, the last round of duty hike was solely from the centre’s point of view. The hike cleverly manipulated the excise duty and introduced a sub section of ‘special excise duty’ and added road cess as well. The entire money is being taken by the central government with the states getting nothing.

It’s funny when the crude prices were low, the justification for increasing duties was that the government is taking money to cushion the future possibility of high crude prices and to save the citizens from high prices and look where we are now.

No amount of logic justifies the abnormally high prices. Someone wrote that protests have died and that is because we are now used to these prices. We are in for some real shocks, just that we won’t be surprised or shocked anymore !!

Just thought of adding this here, coming from a well known economist:

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Last edited by ABHI_1512 : 10th December 2020 at 14:31.
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Old 10th December 2020, 14:21   #90
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Default Re: Petrol price crosses Rs. 90 / litre in Mumbai, diesel at Rs. 80

Taxes from Alcohol and Fuel sales are the biggest source of income to a government. So the adage "Don't mix drinking and driving" is right for our pocket too.
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