[ghostrider]

Has any other car company in India squandered such a strong early-mover advantage as Honda has?

As a company, they've had so many more misses than hits.

• Squandered segment-leader position by missing the boat on turbo-charged diesels for the City, the Civic, the Accord, and the CRV.
• Launched products at absurd prices - case in point being the Jazz, the CRV and the current-gen Accord.
• Launched products with cut-rate, sparse interiors when their rivals were going all-in on features to woo the Indian consumer. Case in point, the current-gen CRV - a 30-lakh car - doesn't come with front parking sensors.
• Possibly the most anemic drivetrain combinations of any brand. The current Civic was outdragged from a dig by an Innova. An Innova, for god's sake.

They've completely ignored what made them successful in this market, and most of their current line-up is either underpowered, overpriced, or poorly equipped - and sometimes all three of those things.

So long, Honda. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

And I am appalled that people still judge build quality and strength by weight and exterior panel thickness.

Can we BHPians stop doing this please?

I do relate build quality to weight for I know how deceiving safety ratings can be. For instance, a 4th Gen City was hit on the rear by a Dzire (1st Gen) & the lady sitting in rear seat of City did not survive the accident. Not wearing a seatbelt is one of factors, but build quality is another important factor in this accident.

BTW the accident happened at a place I lived (near Siri Fort, New Delhi) for almost a decade & I know the speeds (or rather not of it) involved as they were entering main road from connecting roads.

Safety ratings tests are definitely like checklists or exams in particular pattern, & few may have definitely mastered art of clearing these tests IMO.

[lazy]

This had to happen, the writings been on the wall since a long time, isn't it?

Even in their heydays in India, their good cars were always overpriced compared to competition - City, Civic, CRV, Jazz. People paid because the quality was superlative and engines were better than peers.

They just kept getting greedier and greedier, without giving us the products we needed.

Withdrawing the Civic was stupid, but even stupider was reintroducing the new one at that pricing. They could have won that market with better pricing, the product is good.
When every manufacturer is launching petrol SUVs, Honda now discontinues its CRV.
Both above products need better pricing, not withdrawals.

When Toyota can sell its overpriced cars, why couldn't Honda? The answer lies in a utter lack of knowledge and respect for the India customer preferences / behavior.

cheers
lazy

[warrioraks]

Just last week, I drove by a Civic on the road and told my wife that this is going to be our next (pre-used) car. Seems Honda went out of their way to make sure that I get a great deal when I am in the market. Now I can low-ball sellers few years down the line

On a serious note, it’s time to have a Honda deathwatch thread on the forum just like we have for Nissan.

[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

I do relate build quality to weight for I know how deceiving safety ratings can be..

Well, in that case, at least judge based on the girth, weight and materials of the car's structural elements, and not the body panels.

With respect to the accident you cited, one of my close friends suffered a crash in the 4th Gen City at 100 kph impact speed. The car rolled multiple times and landed on the side. Virtually no intrusions into the passenger cell, and no significant injuries despite the car being equipped with only 2 airbags. Point being that the structure matters, not the body panels. And one should not use a 'seatbelts off' accident to judge crash-worthiness.

Anyhow, I have taken the thread way off topic.

[Pashin]

Classic example of the Indian Proverb "Apne hi paer pe kulhadi marna" (Smash your own feet with an Axe). The brand lost its connect with the Loyal customers long back. They tried to emulate Maruti by launching Diesel tin boxes and while they tasted success there, they completely lost out their customers in the Civic, Accord, CRV segment. Its difficult to digest that this is the same brand that cult cars like City Vtec, Civic and the solid 2004 Accord.

[W.A.G.7]

For the CRV, I have no regrets. It was a slow selling model anyway. But I feel sad for the Civic. It was a nice competent car that could have given the Elantra a run for it's money; had they priced it sensibly.

And the new Accord? When was it launched and when did they stop production of this car? I think they should give a serious thought about the Indian market and not run around clueless. They seem to be repeating what Toyota is doing!

[ganadrive16]

Seeing Honda's strategies off late, I can only draw an analogy of our recent loss to Australia in the pink ball test match. How to loss a battle from position of strength to almost nothing, in a wink.

Honda is one of the long runners in India, well established set up, technical prowess and F1 engine maker. Despite all these feathers on their hat, they have been too complacent with focus only on City. Their product planning is another shocker that leads to poor feature to variant packing. All roads lead to their top variants. And that is free ride to get tin cans with all gizmos at lower prices!

Only Honda can bail them out!

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Stribog

Disagree, let's not blame the market for OEM stupidity.

I think we've to look at from a management perspective. To successfully run a business, you need good management - especially in a country like India which has some unique laws shaping the market.

Toyota & Honda have chosen to use their best management to run operations in the bigger markets like USA where they have a dominating presence. Do note that Suzuki & Hyundai don't really dominate other larger markets, hence their focus is on India. (Needless to say Hyundai & Maruti have made compromises in quality & safety)

Is good management & execution key? Just ask Mahindra. They bought rights to Jawa, and had a chance to really dethrone RE in the sub-500cc cruiser space. Everybody agrees that Jawa has great potential, but M&M hasn't really executed well. Honda has now taken over the #2 spot in the 350cc cruise segment.

[TheVegabond]

Like many others on this thread, I too have always loved the Civic. I got a chance to drive a 2012-13 Civic last year and enjoyed every kilometer of the drive from Delhi to Jaipur.

Every now and then I would flirt with the idea of selling my i10 and get a pre-owned Civic. I also enquired about Honda launching the HRV. But Honda is ensuring that even the most ardent fans run away from them. Sad it is, but car lovers here are running out of options by each passing day.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by adityak7

Wonder how they plan on doing it after discontinuing their premium products in the country

It is really a sad state that Honda is in. From once being an aspirational manufacturer to now being a player on the sidelines.

Well, suffice to say, their "premium products" are not premium in India. They have two options

• up their products to make them desirable
• Fold out

Looks like they took the easy option

[adityak7]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I think we've to look at from a management perspective. To successfully run a business, you need good management - especially in a country like India which has some unique laws shaping the market.

Toyota & Honda have chosen to use their best management to run operations in the bigger markets like USA where they have a dominating presence. Do note that Suzuki & Hyundai don't really dominate other larger markets, hence their focus is on India.

I agree with the above, but India is the 4th largest auto market at the moment and soon to be the third-largest. Even if we look at the passenger car segment alone, with the burgeoning middle class and by association the higher spend capacity, you would expect them to get their best brains to capture an emerging market where they already have a good will when it comes to reliability.

Kia has done that successfully, their entire strategy should be a case study in B-schools. I agree that they are yet to improve on the safety front and they might never will too, but you can't criticize their strategy.

[drive on]

This must have been a long deliberated, planned and executed decision by Honda. In my view, if we look strategically from product perspective this decision might make more sense, especially Civic and its relationship with 5th Gen City :

1. If we look at the current positioning of 5th Gen City- in terms of price point and technology on offer - for 'a common buyer' (not an enthusiast) it provides all the bells and whistles of what he would want a D segment car to be. In cities like Bangalore the top end city also touches 18 big ones. Thats mentally the space one considers as entry point for D segment. Honda by upgrading the 5th gen specifications in most aspects, has somewhere pushed it closer to occupy the space which Civic had.

2. Moreover, by retaining and positioning (within 10L ex showroom) the 4th generation City still caters to the traditional buyer who is upgrading to a hatch to his first first full size sedan.

In nutshell, Honda chose not to further invest in Civic as a brand and put all their apples none basket i.e. City.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Toyota & Honda have chosen to use their best management to run operations in the bigger markets like USA where they have a dominating presence. Do note that Suzuki & Hyundai don't really dominate other larger markets, hence their focus is on India.

Honda does not 'dominate' the US market.

They had about ~9.4% market share and were placed 5th in 2019 - behind GM, Ford, Toyota and FCA. Their peak days were in 2010 and sales never really increased afterwards ~10% in 2010 to 9.4 % in 2019.

Hyundai-Kia is not too far behind at 7th place with 7.8%. They sold 1.3M cars in the US compared to 1.6M from Honda.

[ssenhyd]

Originally Posted by klgiridhar

Discontinuing CRV is understandable but why civic? Even though it came with an old 1.8 with an unenthusiastic CVT, it is still the only car in the segment managing to sell in triple digits considering the sudden boom for crossovers. Instead of discontinuing forever, I wish they would relaunch it with a manual or with the powerful 1.5 VTEC turbo sometime in the near future.

Agreed 100%. I am just glad really glad that I bought my Civic last year!! If I had waited, I may not have that option anymore. In the D segment, Civic is the best car IMO considering fit, finiish, build quality, reliability, refinement, ride dynamics etc. etc.

This move by Honda just does not make any sense to me at all