[benu9714]

Last month I drove a (brand new) Suzuki Vitara 1.2 liter turbo petrol hybrid more than 3,500 miles (5,600 KM) from London to Scotland, and then back to London, plus a 200 mile trip south to Dorset.

A few bits and pieces about the car.

- Very smooth and responsive petrol turbo engine producing about 125 bhp and giving an astonishing 19.6 KMPL despite fairly hard driving on very hilly Scotland roads. I drove the NC500 (500 miles along the North coast of Scotland), where you hardly ever get 100 meters of straight and level road, and gradients of up to 25% come up every now and then, with 12+ % being quite normal. Nearly half the roads are single lane with passing places. Driving does need attention, but is great fun !!. The car really felt good on such roads.

- Six speed, fairly smooth manual gearbox, which felt very nice except that the downshift from 5 to 4 was a bit hard to find at times. 6th gear runs at 30 MPH per 1,000 revs, and the car loafs at a comfortable 2,600 rpm on the motorways, doing around 75 mph. 5th gear is perfect, capable of pulling smoothly from 30 mph and capable of cruising at motorway speeds.

- The hybrid is a joke. The tiny battery and electric motor combo is said to assist under hard acceleration, but I couldn't feel it.

- Quite a roomy car, good for 5 adults with boot space for 3 mid sized suitcase with the cover drawn over them to hide them from sight.

- Strangely, the 7 inch display panel had a connection problem and continued to malfunction throughout the trip. A blessing in disguise, because the car rental company gave me a waiver of Pounds 350 in excess mileage charges as a gesture of compensation.

I don't know what drivetrain the Indian Suzuki Vitara will have, but the UK one was very nice indeed !!

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by benu9714

Last month I drove a (brand new) Suzuki Vitara 1.2 liter turbo petrol hybrid...

A correction - Suzuki Vitara in UK comes with 1.4L BoosterJet Turbo Petrol engine, and not with 1.2L Turbo engine. But I wish Suzuki launch a 1.2L Turbo engine in India.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by benu9714

Last month I drove a (brand new) Suzuki Vitara 1.2 liter turbo petrol hybrid ... The hybrid is a joke. The tiny battery and electric motor combo is said to assist under hard acceleration, but I couldn't feel it.

Guess this should belong to this thread https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...suv-spied.html

Looking at the bhp numbers it is the 1.4 boosterjet. Also it maybe a mild hybrid, since it has manual tranmsission.

[volkman10]

Maruti Brezza CNG spied ahead of launch this month





Link

[TusharK]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Brezza CNG spied ahead of launch this month


Attachment 2322410


Link

I don't think that's the 2022 Brezza.

The car appears to have a fairly basic interior and seats with integrated headrests. You also get a glimpse of the tail lamp, which in this case seem to be positioned on the C/D pillar, whereas the new Brezza has wraparound tail lamps with no vertical element.

[KebabBoi]

Hello all
Need some advice to help me decide better.

Owning a 2014 WagonR VXI, done just over 1,10,000 kms, beater car, looking to replace her, in the process of getting her evaluated.

THE DILEMMA:
I had shortlisted the current Brezza as a worthy replacement for all the obvious reasons (tyre size being one of the major ones). Had a talk with our trusted designated service advisor about the same but he really made it a point to convince me to wait for the newer model, having just returned from a month long service and maintenance training for the new car.

1. Car must be a Petrol MT
2. Car will be kept for a longer duration (easily 10+ years)
3. Will be used primarily for local running (rare highway runs in case of emergency, planning for a Crysta for the longer hauls)

My thought process is that the current car is a tested one, no major issues, lack of gizmos so lower maintenance and repairs, yada yada.

But then I feel that since the new car will be kept for a longer time, the current Brezza will show its age in some years (in terms of interiors - feel-good factor) so it would be better to get the new one.

But then again, the new one will definitely see a price hike (most likely overshooting our budget) than the outgoing version - on which I could get some serious discounts. It may even have initial niggles and issues as with most new cars.

Going to the showroom on Monday (20/06) with a divided mind to take a look at the current Brezza. Apparently, they have started taking bookings for the new one under the older model and have received around 25 bookings already.

TL;DR - Looking to replace 2014 WagonR with a Brezza, can't decide which Brezza to buy, current one or the upcoming one

Originally Posted by TusharK

I don't think that's the 2022 Brezza.

The car appears to have a fairly basic interior and seats with integrated headrests. You also get a glimpse of the tail lamp, which in this case seem to be positioned on the C/D pillar, whereas the new Brezza has wraparound tail lamps with no vertical element.

Pretty sure that's a WagonR

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Brezza CNG spied ahead of launch this month

Link

This is the WagonR CNG!

And the source has smartly turned off the comments on the post

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Brezza CNG spied ahead of launch this month


Attachment 2322410


Link

The photograph appears to be that of SUZUKI India Gurgaon factory with the Alto visible in front. The new Brezza will have a CNG version but it definitely is not the same as the image.

[jessie007]

But tell me one thing - who is willing to stand in a queue with autorickshaws and taxi cabs to get CNG filled?? Atleast in Delhi, i have never seen a CNG pump without a queue in daytime.

I go to another petrol pump, if one is busy or not paying attention to customers. Just for info - There is four pumps close to my house.

Maruti will suffer sales due to lack of diesel. It doesn't hurt that much in small cars, but in SUVs (yes, 4m SUVs are an Indian thing and a misnomer, but it is what it is) since they are relatively heavier than hatchbacks, fuel efficiency takes a beating and diesel makes more sense. Delhi is an exception, due to the irrational 10 year NGT rule. Ironically RCs for diesel engines vehicles still being issued with 15 year validity in Delhi

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by jessie007

Maruti will suffer sales due to lack of diesel.

Sonet with diesels sells 5k, Brezza without it sells 12k despite being at end of life
Marazzo with diesel sells 400-500, Ertiga with CNG sells 12k!
Carens with diesel sells 5k, XL6 with petrol only, also sells 5k!
City with diesel sells 3k, Slavia and Virtus without it sell similar units!

Now talking about BIG SUVs-
62% of Hectors sold are petrols!!!
46% of Compass are petrols!!!
35% of Thars sold are petrols!!!
71% 7OOs sold are petrols!!!

I think this data and the thread Diesel- Past, Present and Future (Diesel engines: The past, present & future) is enough to tell that no manufacturer who equips their cars with decent powertrains and equipment will suffer just because they did not care about diesels!

Nobody today cares about diesels and I think diesel fans need to realize that diesels are dead in cars under 15 lakhs and so will be in bigger cars once strong hybrids, EVs and alternate fuels start taking over!

So to answer your question, no, Brezza or any other Maruti or any car for that matter is not going to suffer due to lack of diesels! The market is grabbing alternate fuels at every opportunity they are getting (E.g. Ertiga CNG, Nexon EV, turbo-petrol SUVs etc.)

[jessie007]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

Sonet with diesels sells 5k, Brezza without it sells 12k despite being at end of life
Marazzo with diesel sells 400-500, Ertiga with CNG sells 12k!
Carens with diesel sells 5k, XL6 with petrol only, also sells 5k!
City with diesel sells 3k, Slavia and Virtus without it sell similar units!

Now talking about BIG SUVs-
62% of Hectors sold are petrols!!!
46% of Compass are petrols!!!
35% of Thars sold are petrols!!!
71% 7OOs sold are petrols!!!

I think this data and the thread Diesel- Past, Present and Future (Diesel engines: The past, present & future) is enough to tell that no manufacturer who equips their cars with decent powertrains and equipment will suffer just because they did not care about diesels!

Nobody today cares about diesels and I think diesel fans need to realize that diesels are dead in cars under 15 lakhs and so will be in bigger cars once strong hybrids, EVs and alternate fuels start taking over!

So to answer your question, no, Brezza or any other Maruti or any car for that matter is not going to suffer due to lack of diesels! The market is grabbing alternate fuels at every opportunity they are getting (E.g. Ertiga CNG, Nexon EV, turbo-petrol SUVs etc.)

Maruti commands a certain respect and acceptability among the common man. Plus the highest number of service outlets is a comforting factor, especially for those not living in metros. All these factors add up for Maruti.

But if you have been following monthly sales figures, Maruti is steadily losing market share from over 55% to under 45% now (May’22). Though still the undisputed leader, as no.2 Hyundai has just about 15% market share. Even if you add up market shares of Hyundai and Kia (same company basically) it still comes to just about 22%. No doubt Maruti is the leader and continues to lead overall, but it is steadily losing market share overall and in crucial segments like sub-4 metre and 10-15 lakhs SUVs a la Creta segment.
Also you have inadvertently or conveniently missed sales and petrol-diesel split for three of the top seller vehicles, viz Nexon, Creta, Seltos and even Bolero. Please also advise where have you taken the petrol-diesel split figures from – I’ll need it for further debates. Thanks in advance.

Please refer below to the stats I compiled for the sub 4m SUV segment. The six months data shows that Nexon clearly sells more than the Brezza, with the Venue not too far off. So already Maruti is no. 2 in this segment. Both Venue and Brezza have received a refresh – and their sales figures in the coming months will give a fair idea about who is no. 2. Again, combined figures of Hyundai and Kia trumps that of Brezza – I know this clubbing is an unfair comparison, but just saying – competition is smartly gnawing away market share from Maruti.

Originally Posted by jessie007

I used to do sales analysis of monthly car sales stats on Team BHP earlier. Your figure of "around 12k" for Brezza sales, again piqued my interest and here are the stats for sub-4m SUV sales, which show a clearer picture. Most manufacturers have faced supply issues effecting sales, so that sort of evens out the playing field.

As you can see from the table, the average monthly sales for Brezza for the past six months are around the 10,500 mark, not 12,000. Tata Nexon sells more (avg 13562; mkt share ~30%), and if we take into account the combined sales of the Hyundai group (HMIL+Kia) avg 15779; mkt share ~36%), Brezza stands third in sales and market share (avg 10480; mkt share 23.5%). Even if you take standalone sales figures for Venue (avg 9644; mkt share ~22%), they are not too far off from that of the Brezza, market share more so.

Agreed that the standalone sales figures for Brezza are commendable from just one engine and two gearboxes. But what I meant to say earlier was that the competition is very tough in the sub 4m SUV segment and it is not going to get any easier for Maruti, even with a refresh and more features. Lack of a turbo petrol, EV variant, diesel engine, and a DCT automatic are still going to hurt sales. Even though the Hyundai group doesn't have an EV (like Tata's Nexon) they have many options to spoil a customer - NA Petrol, Turbo Petrol, Diesel - plus a combination of gearboxes from manual and iMT to DCT.

[Carma2017]

There are a couple of factors we need to consider before we pass judgement on Brezza and other UV sales.

1) Due to semiconductor shortages, every Car maker is prioritising where to put the chips in. In case of Suzuki, newer vehicles like Baleno are getting priority. Long in the tooth vehicles like Brezza definitely will not be getting priority.
Nexon with its numerous powertrain combinations is definitely a TATA priority.

2) We have to consider sales of Brezza as Urban Cruiser in India and Toyota+Suzuki exports as well. The Nexon as far as I know is not exported much, if at all. Since the Suzuki target markets of Africa, Latin And ASEAN are not that semiconductor features loving as India, the push towards exports is even more.

Even with the above points, one thing is very certain. Brezza is being pushed to its limits as Brezza did to the Ecosport one generation earlier.

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by jessie007

But if you have been following monthly sales figures, Maruti is steadily losing market share from over 55% to under 45% now (May’22). Though still the undisputed leader, as no.2 Hyundai has just about 15% market share. But it is steadily losing market share overall and in crucial segments like sub-4 metre and 10-15 lakhs SUVs a la Creta segment.

1. I never intended to say that Maruti is not losing sales but I was just advocating the fact that diesels are not as important as they are said to be, by people on the internet.

2. Maruti has been losing sales due to lack of competent products and not due to lack of diesels! The Ciaz, the Brezza and the S-Cross are simply selling less because their rivals are much more superior from tech and marketing POV.

3. You said that Maruti has been losing share in Mid-SUV segment. Now, would love to correct you with the fact that Maruti never had a market share in that segment due to lack of a competent representative. The S-Cross despite being a great product, was never as desirable as the Creta or any other rival simply due to its design, features, tech and the fact that Maruti never knew how to sell a premium car until a year or two and not due to lack of diesels.

4. I think Maruti's Mid-SUV fight will truly begin when the YFG launches and we can have this discussion later based on the car's performance. As of now, the fact that even Hyundai has declared lower focus on diesels supports my motion that diesels are failing and lack of them isn't a reason behind Maruti's falling market share.

Also you have inadvertently or conveniently missed sales and petrol-diesel split for three of the top seller vehicles, viz Nexon, Creta, Seltos and even Bolero. Please also advise where have you taken the petrol-diesel split figures from – I’ll need it for further debates. Thanks in advance.

1. Bolero is not sold in petrol so I do not think that the comparison is valid.
2. Nexon's petrol-diesel split was mentioned in my previous post and as I said, 8% of Nexons sold are electrics, while only 17% are diesels! Source (Diesel engines: The past, present & future)

The petrol-diesel split data is taken from autopunditz.com (source of sales figures for many people!)

Please refer below to the stats I compiled for the sub 4m SUV segment. The six months data shows that Nexon clearly sells more than the Brezza, with the Venue not too far off. So already Maruti is no. 2 in this segment.

Of course the Nexon is top selling and Maruti is no.2 but that again is not due to lack of a diesel but due to the hideous interiors, features list smaller than legroom in Venue and an exterior design that has lost its charm just like Hyundai lost their old safe cars.
Again, just like in the Midsize SUV segment, Maruti's position in this segment too can only be truly seen post the 2022 Brezza's launch.

Summarizing the above post-
Yes Maruti's market share is declining and yes Brezza is facing immense competition, but that is 99% due to outdated products and maybe 1% due to lack of diesels.
True state if Maruti is actually losing sales due to lack of diesels, can only be known post the launch of competent products.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

There are a couple of factors we need to consider before we pass judgement on Brezza and other UV sales.

1) Due to semiconductor shortages, every Car maker is prioritising where to put the chips in. In case of Suzuki, newer vehicles like Baleno are getting priority. Long in the tooth vehicles like Brezza definitely will not be getting priority.
Nexon with its numerous powertrain combinations is definitely a TATA priority.

2) We have to consider sales of Brezza as Urban Cruiser in India and Toyota+Suzuki exports as well. The Nexon as far as I know is not exported much, if at all. Since the Suzuki target markets of Africa, Latin And ASEAN are not that semiconductor features loving as India, the push towards exports is even more.

Perfectly said. The Brezza, S-Cross and Ciaz are being prioritized less simply because they are old and focusing on them more will simply affect efficient use of production lines and chips.

Even with the above points, one thing is very certain. Brezza is being pushed to its limits as Brezza did to the Ecosport one generation earlier.

True that. And I believe that every leader goes through this phase in every few years.
Creta itself was put in pressure by its own cousin, but quickly recovered and regained top throne. The City is currently going through the same phase and the i20 went through the same phase some years ago but never recovered.
So again, I definitely think that only the next-gen product's competitiveness can display a truer picture.

[jessie007]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

1. Bolero is not sold in petrol so I do not think that the comparison is valid.
2. Nexon's petrol-diesel split was mentioned in my previous post and as I said, 8% of Nexons sold are electrics, while only 17% are diesels! Source (Diesel engines: The past, present & future)

The petrol-diesel split data is taken from autopunditz.com (source of sales figures for many people!)

Thanks for the info. Yes I also refer to AutoPunditz, but thought you might know some other source as well.

I get your point overall, that lack of diesel engine will impact Maruti only 1% saleswise, as per you. At the same time you mention 17% sales for Nexon are from diesel engine. 17% is still no joke or insignificant.

And let me state what you are hesitating to bring to the forum - %age of diesel sales for Venue, Creta, Seltos you conveniently forgot to mention. I'm quoting the "diesel mix" from the same thread you have mentioned and quoted:

Venue: 21%
Sonet: 39%
XUV 3OO: 53%

Creta: 53%
Seltos: 45%

Alcazar 69%

I fail to understand how lack of a diesel engine will effect only 1% for Maruti – whereas competition is selling (17%-53%) of cars with diesel engine. Admittedly some don't have great petrol engines.

An important point i would like to make - Agreed, Maruti is selling just as many cars with just a petrol variant (and this is no doubt commendable), but that is due to its wider reach, acceptability, and service factor that plays a big role with common man – not inherently due to product superiority.

Anyways I believe we are going off-topic - Mods please excuse my reply, but just stating some figures for more clarity.

After the sales spike in the next two months or so, due to new model launch (both for Brezza and Venue), the numbers should settle down and we’ll get a truer picture. Let us wait and watch.

[volkman10]

More leaked pics of the 2022 Brezza, including mid variant interiors:













Source: Harsh Vlogs