[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by Mickey1986

Can we ? How do you say so while all the blogs/
Links suggest no change in the policy post 10th year and the diesel vehicle has to be scrapped?

What he means to say is that the diesel car can be sold till 15 years and that too in very limited areas , it can only be used upto 10 years on delhi ncr roads. You can park it at home and wait to sell it till 15 yrs in the eternal hope of geeting a dream deal

[Styler]

So with the new raised Fitness Test Rates and the Re-Registration Rates after completing 15 years will Private Vehicles in Delhi-NCR be allowed to Re-Registered ?
I have a Toyota Camry Petrol and a Grand Vitara Petrol - Both in Mint Condition registered in Dec 2007. I am hoping I will be able to keep them beyond Dec 2023 when they complete 15 years.

[sid_deb]

Just an anecdotal observation to share, am mostly finding new luxury cars and premium SUVs being bought in diesel avatar since the last 3 weeks here in South Delhi - saw E220d, 320d and multiple Innova 2.4s. Earlier one could only see the petrol models being bought on the road.

Called up my BMW dealer and he did mention that there is some renewed demand for the diesel models in NCR. Will need to wait and watch.

[digitalnirvana]

This post is on behalf of a lawyer friend who's from Delhi and owns a 9 year old diesel car. He's not a member but follows the forum.

Announcing the “Voluntary Vehicle-Fleet Modernisation Programme” in Lok Sabha on Thursday, Gadkari said that commercial vehicles over 15 years old and personal vehicles over 20 years old will be marked for scrapping if they fail to pass the test. “They will be seized and destroyed,” he said.

Gadkari said the new rules will apply in Delhi and the National Capital Region, too, where diesel vehicles older than 10 years and petrol vehicles older than 15 are banned following a ruling in 2015 by the National Green Tribunal.

“We will take legal opinion on this matter on whether a law passed by Parliament will take precedence over the tribunal’s judgement. In my opinion, it should. There are many such instances in the past. The basis of the scrapping policy is the amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act passed by Parliament. So this policy should be applicable on Delhi also,” the Minister told reporters later.

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...dkari-7234955/

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by Styler

So with the new raised Fitness Test Rates and the Re-Registration Rates after completing 15 years will Private Vehicles in Delhi-NCR be allowed to Re-Registered ?
I have a Toyota Camry Petrol and a Grand Vitara Petrol - Both in Mint Condition registered in Dec 2007. I am hoping I will be able to keep them beyond Dec 2023 when they complete 15 years.

Not yet. I understand Gadkari plans to challenge the NGT ruling with his Scrapping policy, but as of now the rule stands.

[911CarerraS]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

Not yet. I understand Gadkari plans to challenge the NGT ruling with his Scrapping policy, but as of now the rule stands.

I hope the Supreme court takes into consideration the plight of a common man . I still believe that NGT order was uncalled for and it was not a speaking order, it should have been struck down by the supreme court in 2018. The ban was illogical and still doesn't make sense to this day. I hope the apex court will look into all the factors involved and give up releif because right now we all enthusiasts in delhi are in peril

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

This post is on behalf of a lawyer friend who's from Delhi and owns a 9 year old diesel car. He's not a member but follows the forum.

Well sir i will post the key take away from the article in the link mentioned!

“We will take legal opinion on this matter on whether a law passed by Parliament will take precedence over the tribunal’s judgement. In my opinion, it should.

Sadly the honourable minister's opinion does not matter an iota in front of the judiciary.

[M.Dua]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

Well sir i will post the key take away from the article in the link mentioned!

“We will take legal opinion on this matter on whether a law passed by Parliament will take precedence over the tribunal’s judgement. In my opinion, it should.

Sadly the honourable minister's opinion does not matter an iota in front of the judiciary.

in my limited knowledge of law, the law precedes all judgements made by the judiciary, judiciary can pass judgements only on questions of law(not clear in law or interpreting the law), whereas where law is clear judiciary follows the law. This must be the reason the minister might have given this statement.

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by M.Dua

in my limited knowledge of law, the law precedes all judgements made by the judiciary, judiciary can pass judgements only on questions of law(not clear in law or interpreting the law), whereas where law is clear judiciary follows the law. This must be the reason the minister might have given this statement.

In short and brief You sir have answered your own question. The NGT was created by an act of parliament under article 21 of the constitution of india, known as the National green tribunal Act 2010.

The Tribunal has powers to review its own decisions. If this fails, the decision can be challenged before the Supreme Court within ninety days.

Hence orders of the NGT are 99.99% beyond reproach no matter what mumbo jumbo politicians give, the only reason they are not openly saying this is because they are still charging 15 years road tax on diesel cars instead of 10 so either ways its the common man suffering as usual

[joybhowmik]

Originally Posted by M.Dua

in my limited knowledge of law, the law precedes all judgements made by the judiciary, judiciary can pass judgements only on questions of law(not clear in law or interpreting the law), whereas where law is clear judiciary follows the law. This must be the reason the minister might have given this statement.

Agreed. This is key to understanding the framework referenced by the Minister.
The relative independence of the three arms of the government - executive, legislature, and judiciary is based on jurisdictional control.
a) It is not the scope of the judiciary or executive to frame laws - that is with the legislative arm.
b) Similarly, it's not within the scope of the executive or legislative to decide on the rights or wrongs of a matter (where law applies) - that lies with the judiciary.
c) As we all, it's not within the scope of the legislative or judiciary to implement the various policies and enforce the laws - that lies with the executive.

This is absolutely an immutable part of the Indian Constitution. Issues of Jurisdictional trespass between any of these three can go to the highest public office in the land. Those escalation mechanisms exist - though rarely used.

That's because there's always the hope that in a working democracy, the various parts of the government will work together for the common good. Intractable stands by anyone party will ultimately need to be defended on the basis of proof.

If the ministry (proxying for the legislature in this instance - law has been passed/will be passed) feels strongly that they have a case, then they need to be able to convince the NGT/SC about the comprehensive nature of the scrappage policy and amendments to MVA.
They need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's better all around for the owners and for public health.

If the NGT/SC demand to see plans for implementation - then the Executive (again the Ministry) needs to step up to the plate. They need to show how they intend to implement the quality controls in a fitness center - and why a vehicle passing the fitness tests will no longer be a health hazard to the public.

One needs to also appreciate the context of the NGT ruling. It was at a time when no such legal framework existed in the country. I am hopeful that structural reforms on that front will imply righting a lot of wrongs and addressing the grief of the slighted private car owner in the national capital.

[M.Dua]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

In short and brief You sir have answered your own question. The NGT was created by an act of parliament under article 21 of the constitution of india, known as the National green tribunal Act 2010.

The Tribunal has powers to review its own decisions. If this fails, the decision can be challenged before the Supreme Court within ninety days.

Hence orders of the NGT are 99.99% beyond reproach no matter what mumbo jumbo politicians give, the only reason they are not openly saying this is because they are still charging 15 years road tax on diesel cars instead of 10 so either ways its the common man suffering as usual

From what i understand, NGT decisions can be challenged in Supreme Court and supreme court will have to follow the law to take a decision, when the law was silent SC had upheld the NGT decision but when there is a law in a place i believe there exists a chance for SC to put the burden of proof that Diesel vehicles has caused the pollution and they shall be scrapped in 10 years. While there is no study that complements that rationale so it could turn otherwise since law is present that they should be scrapped in 15/20 years.

Also i fail to understand how green for the NATIONAL GREEN TRIBUNAL is to scrap these vehicles and produce more of them for us to consume....

[batish]

Do we have any clarity on this aspect? Has this new policy superseded the NGT Ruling or does that absurd ruling still stand valid?

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by batish

Do we have any clarity on this aspect? Has this new policy superseded the NGT Ruling or does that absurd ruling still stand valid?

Ngt rules still hold and will hold irrespective of what comes in the news.

[batish]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

Ngt rules still hold and will hold irrespective of what comes in the news.

Whatever the minister was saying, was it not right?

Doesn't any law passed by the parliament overrides previous judgements until challenged again or am I missing something here?

[maglev]

I know someone who transferred their BMW 730Ld to Ambala (HR-01), and continues to drive in Delhi with aplomb. The car in question is around 11 years old.

We have a 2012 Innova 2.5 V, and would like to retain but am totally confused with the various things being said by all and sundry - Any ideas/ suggestions?


Hoping that the new Vehicle Scrappage and 20+5 rule comes fast.