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Old 20th February 2021, 03:11   #91
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by tanayr View Post
Purely from a taxpayer perspective, I am all for this kind of taxing - on actual consumption. This way, the businessmen with multiple luxury cars (and negligible taxable income) , the 'poor farmers' (earning multiple lakhs/month) and saintly NGOs etc. all shell out their contribution.

Ideal state: Petrol at 200 bucks a liter, no income tax. Solves a lot of problems.
If you talk only about Petrol, it’s ok. But the whole scenario changes when the tax is on diesel, on which the commercial vehicle sector depends.
So the extra taxation impacts the public transport fares & the grocery prices which are brought to market by trucks, ran by that highly taxed diesel! And thus eventually the burden comes on those huge number of end users who already can not make their both ends meet.

In an ideal state, everyone should be able to buy the fuel at 200 bucks!
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Old 20th February 2021, 03:48   #92
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

Before taxing the people and blaming the previous governments , the present Union Government should have FIRST & FOREMOST brought laws and incentives for automobile manufacturers to build electric vehicles and consumers to migrate to other alternative fuel type of electric vehicles , CNG , Hybrid vehicles etc. So far even the Hybrid vehicles in India are being sold as luxury vehicles and there's hardly any hybrid vehicles across all the segments. I certainly don't think the smart hybrid tag by increases fuel efficiency of Suzuki vehicles. The only way Suzuki vehicles is increasing the mileage is by building wafer light vehicles. By increasing Tax on Fuel , expenses will keep on increasing on travelling and buying materials ,commodity ,food, FMCG products. Every single common man's burden keeps increasing due to the daily price increase. I tend to get to the conclusion that the present government is surviving on the tax on the fuel seeing how the government has turned a blind eye to the ever increasing fuel price increases. By Deregulation of petrol / diesel prices by the government what benefits have we got ? Absolutely nothing !
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Old 20th February 2021, 04:55   #93
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
In May 2014, petrol was Rs 71/litre, and crude was around Rs 6634/barrel. Today, petrol is Rs 100/litre and crude is Rs 4440/ barrel. (I’ve taken indicative prices, not the Indian basket which may vary based on mix, forward purchases, exchange rates, Iran etc).

Clearly Nehrus fault!
The current government can not justify the insane rise in fuel prices even with “Nehru’s fault” logic. I am still in disbelief that these were the same people doing a lot of protests before 2014 on the same very topic. The meme tough is really hilarious
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Old 20th February 2021, 07:50   #94
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by Jas21 View Post
65% Population of India is Rural. And they contribute big time to economy through spending and Indirect taxes.
60% engaged in farming that contributes to 20% of GDP. Even this share was falling YoY in strong growth years except covid year when manufacturing slumped and agri went up, as indicated by rise in tractor sales (which, is attributed to good rains).

Services and industry at 50 and 25 percent approx.

Not talking about the govt employees aka the giant Indian bureaucracy who would never take a pay cut because them and their family form a voter base and convinced that their spending is spinning the economy - since 1951 - the de facto upper caste.

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And one must know the share of direct Income tax in India Government earnings. Its been between 15% to low 20%. Rest comes from Indirect taxes and borrowing, which everyone pays.
Yes, everyone pays; the rural sector consumption be like the 1 rupee shampoo packet because incomes are not great, to begin with. Subsistence living allowed a rural family to keep making kids and govt provides for them through ration card and free 'education'. Urban fertility rate: 1.7 kids per couple, rural : 2.5.

This current party ruling the country harped on 'India shining' only to fail miserably, because the GDP number may come from urban and sub-urban, but the absolute number of votes are from the rural. Provide for the former, you get called 'suit boot sarkar', provide for the rural, you perpetuate poverty and population growth: that which happened from 1951, when we were less than 50 crore to the current 140 crore, supposed to peak at 170 crore by 2050. This when the western world is debating automation and redundancy of human labor.


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By no means I am saying that Loans should be waived. But do you know share of Farmer Loans in overall NPAs? There has been far bigger Industrial NPAs. Check this out:
I only spoke about blanket waiving without any merit. Besides, the bulk of farm loan happens through the cooperative banks/societies, the cesspool of corruption.

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Originally Posted by Elito11 View Post
For a long while now I have believed the excessive proliferation of these tin boxes called cars needs to be brought down/controlled. If the government is able to spend the same money towards building proper Public transport infrastructure (esp in urban centres) I don’t mind paying a little extra for fuel. That said, a lot of people/businesses on this thread have genuine concerns and I empathise with them
A long time back, a bhpian said that private transport is never the solution for a country like India with dense populations and advocated for a robust railway network, inter and intracity. Behram Dhabhar used to say, 'the only way to do it is the right way' : public transport is the way forward and the govts should realize this before our average speeds is measured in inches per hour.
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Old 20th February 2021, 09:33   #95
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Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
While we are angry at ever increasing fuel prices , I believe this is being with an intention. The same intention will force some percent of market to opt for electric vehicles.
Yes yes. Like how changing color of notes helped curb black money and corruption. Besides tanking a self motoring (despite all the Netas) Indian economy.
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:07   #96
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

When emotions, views and statements by public figures run amuck it always help to look at facts. There is some discussion on this forum that fuel prices in India today are high due to earlier Govt's not doing their bit. Without going into the pros and cons of this divisive argument lets review the facts.

Domestic oil production is one lever to reduce our dependence on oil imports. The other being curtailing demand. Domestic oil production received a fillip in the early 1970s with the discovery of Bombay High and the commencement of off shore drilling by ONGC. It was a big step and a significant investment by a low income India at that time. Thanks to the impetus & policies of successive Govts of different parties and I dare say the leadership of Colonel Wahi our oil production rose from a negligible figure in 1972 to around 19 million tonnes in 1980 and onwards to 32 million tonnes Circa 1989. This in an era when the Indian economy was 4 to 5 times smaller in real terms than today.

The chart below shows domestic oil production over the last 18 odd years. I've picked selected years to show the trend. Our crude oil production peaked at 37 to 38 million tonnes in the 2011-13 period and has declined ever since. Each reader can draw his own conclusion on whether earlier Governments are to blame or what. For years we have fought and lost every court and arbitration case against Cairn on a $1.2 billion tax dispute. Not really the best way to make our oil drilling & exploration attractive to international finance and competence.

The Rupee is expected to depreciate to 80 if we look at the forex forwards. Expect fuel prices to stiffen further regardless of what statements public figures pout. Seven years is a long time to get things done.

Source: Ministry of Petroleum & Natural Gas
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:07   #97
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
IMHO the govt should tax fossil fuels more as long as the consumption is on an upward trend. Fossil fuels pollute. Renewable sources are the way to go. Diesel can be taxed a bit lesser so that the grocery prices don't become too high.
If the motive to tax fossil fuel is to provide better infrastructure in terms of highways, pothole free roads, parking spaces etc. then the gov. must collect the tax .
But if the motive is to fill in deficit gap which is due to gov. irresponsible spending then they should not collect any tax on fuel .

Would like to cite an example here, China when asked to reduce their carbon footprint gave a straightforward reply that their carbon emissions will peak till 2030, thereafter they will reduce their carbon footprint and it will be done by 2045/50. Reason for that - being a developing economy they have huge power demands. renewables can be a alternative but still the technology is not matured and is no match for thermal/nuclear power plants at present.

We as a developing nation too have huge power demands, but that happens when the economy is growing, GDP is falling ever since demonetization. Power sector business is on decline ever since 2014, reasoning given by bloated data is that we are power surplus country, but are we?

Fossil fuels pollute, but renewables too pollute. The solar cells after its life cycle is a waste too. The land solar power plants require is huge as compared to conventional ones. We can go on discussing pros and cons here.

But our concern here should be development at fast pace, or else we will always remain as a third world country.

Developed countries have already eaten the major chunk of pie and became developed. When they were in the race they polluted and now they educate to reduce carbon footprint.
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:21   #98
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
While we are angry at ever increasing fuel prices , I believe this is being with an intention. The same intention will force some percent of market to opt for electric vehicles.
Really? That's a very good plan then (pun intended of course)! Is there any data on how much percentage of our commercial vehicle segment ( trucks, vans etc) has already moved or planning to move to EVs?

While this thread started from petrol price rise, the diesel (backbone of a developing economy) price rise is not far behind. At this rate, the public won't have any money to afford the domestic electric bills, let alone thinking of buying EVs.
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:25   #99
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
While we are angry at ever increasing fuel prices , I believe this is being with an intention. The same intention will force some percent of market to opt for electric vehicles.
Even if we, for a moment, ignore the fact that electricity in India is not 100 percent clean, how do expect a guy who is earning 15000 rupees to get rid of his splendor and buy an electric bike for 80K? A guy earning 50,000 a month buys the diesel Nexon at 11 lakh or the electric one at 16 lakh? Government can't simply break someone's legs and think that he will learn to walk with his hands. It's the government's job to facilitate and enable people and businesses. If they can't do that, the next best thing is just don't do anything stupid.

Last edited by prakash_ajp : 20th February 2021 at 10:50. Reason: Grammar
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:46   #100
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by Jas21 View Post
Its intriguing how 'Annual farm loan waiver' came in first in the list. Ground reality is that Farm Loans are only 9-13% of overall Bank NPAs. So it should be more of Industrial & commercial loan NPAs.
How many private industries / commercial entities have had their loans waived off by the government?
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Old 20th February 2021, 11:00   #101
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by superbad View Post
How many private industries / commercial entities have had their loans waived off by the government?
Check out these links:

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...1800080_1.html

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...e-2104415.html

Or just google the share of Farmer Loan Waiver in overall Bank NPAs, you will get the true picture.
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Old 20th February 2021, 11:02   #102
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by superbad View Post
How many private industries / commercial entities have had their loans waived off by the government?
Do not forget the corporate tax waiver in 2019, it was approximately 1.45lakh crores dent on gov.
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Old 20th February 2021, 11:28   #103
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by Jas21 View Post
Check out these links:

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...1800080_1.html

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...e-2104415.html

Or just google the share of Farmer Loan Waiver in overall Bank NPAs, you will get the true picture.
Farmer loan waivers maybe only 20% of overall bank NPA’s but they are nothing to celebrate. Fact is that both ends of this financial bs need to stop. Farms loan waivers on one end and industrial NPA’s on the other, so that ‘regular folks’ can experience better public infra and services.
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Old 20th February 2021, 11:53   #104
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

Might belong to the Jokes thread but I thought it is more appropriate here...
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Old 20th February 2021, 12:00   #105
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Default Re: Regular petrol hits a century for the first-ever time in India

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Originally Posted by Elito11 View Post
Farmer loan waivers maybe only 20% of overall bank NPA’s but they are nothing to celebrate. Fact is that both ends of this financial bs need to stop. Farms loan waivers on one end and industrial NPA’s on the other, so that ‘regular folks’ can experience better public infra and services.
100% with you on that. Just wanted to clarify the general misconception on Farmer loan waivers, and highlight the fact how Industrial NPAs are costing exchequer far far more and no one seem to question that.

Middle class has to understand one thing. Governments will continue to work for Big Industrialists as they fund elections spend, and Governments will also keep running populist scheme for poor as they are a big vote bank. Solution? Make it count at election time. Vote in big numbers, and Vote wisely!

Last edited by Jas21 : 20th February 2021 at 12:06.
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