[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by lurker

Believe me the day isn't far when we will ban cars and personal transportation just like Cuba and make do with old jalopies and scavenge old parts to make these cars run.

Who would have thought !

Yeah, and then we would realise that we had already banned old jalopies and coerced owners to scrap them a long time ago, leaving us with no cars at all.

At 100 Rs. per litre of liquid exploding dinosaurs, it simply doesn’t make sense to use this fuel to commute daily. I think CNG now makes even more sense than ever before in the current scheme of things and 5 - 10 years down the line - Electric is the way to go!

[CarBot]

I was thinking about the same, crude oil prices went down but not the petrol / diesel prices. Now it has crossed Rs.100 (not yet in Bangalore, but eventually it will).

Now if one has the opportunity to migrate to a different country (say USA) should he consider doing it? Not only because of Oil prices but the over all inflation, real estate prices, education system, job satisfaction, 9-5 job which never happens in Indian IT companies, Over Time benefits and other labor laws and finally middle class being always stuck as middle class or just becoming upper middle class.

Sometimes I feel we try to justify the actions we take (e.g., moving out of India) to on going political and financial situations, but not sure if it will benefit in long run.

Not all may be able to control their life, but few can control where they want to be and how they want to lead life. Not all those people who can migrate would go, but many might leave India leading to Brain Drain. People who cannot leave the country will continue to show their dissatisfaction on WhatsApp and social media or convince themselves that we are building the nation. And I feel that's how life goes on and ends.

[stallmaster]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

The freebie receiving, lazy rural voter doesn't question how all this is funded. He's happy to vote for whoever gives the max.

Contrary to the general perception, rural Indian distress is entirely due to overproduction and large number of small farmers working tirelessly to produce this surplus.

I don't really know how any government is going to break out of this cycle to give a relief to the direct tax payer who is also burdened with the indirect tax.

It isn't as simple as this unfortunately.

I come from the border area between MP & Rajasthan where semi-feudal landlords hold acres of actual profit-making agricultural lands; sharecropping on those lands is done by landless(or at most, fragmented landholding) farmers/labourers. They remain poor perpetually tilling the lands of other people, while the produce from their own minuscule holding isn't even enough to break even the input costs.

Nobody in rural India wants freebies from the government at the cost of their own self-esteem, social and economic mobility. Nobody in rural India wants to farm with a pittance in returns if they had the option to switch over to other better-paid professions with ease. They'd more than happily give up the freebies if the market paid them just wages in return. They want better lives for their children, that's why rural-to-urban migration is at an all-time high, even if that means underemployment/low wages in the cities.

The wretched cycle of penury never leaves a disproportionately large part of our populace as the government doesn't create an efficient and free grassroot education system for the masses, provide them dignified healthcare, create gainful employment opportunities for them, indirectly, by incentivizing entrepreneurs to employ them, pay them well, etc.

What the politician-babu nexus in Delhi does is, keep them poor while doing accounting tricks to transfer wealth from one section of the society to other, so that they do not protest against systemic issues.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by lurker

Gold.
...
Believe me the day isn't far when we will ban cars and personal transportation just like Cuba and make do with old jalopies and scavenge old parts to make these cars run.

Who would have thought !

Only that, it will all be our own doing where as in Cuba's case, there was significant effort from the West to push them into oblivion. Just not too long ago, we were economically in a good position (no, I am not talking about the 5T economy claim) and it's hard to believe that in such a short time, we are staring down the barrel. Must be some achievement.

[drift87]

I remember during by College days, an increase in price by mere 1Rs would cause large scale protest at unprecedented levels. I am sure there has not been any significant change in the disposable income that all of us have. It seems most of us either care less and we have accepted the demagoguery at various levels. Absolute power corrupts!!

[anoop cheeran]

Sometimes, it is actually not bad to adress the elephant in the room, even though not much can be done about it as the myths around elephant is so accepted, we adore it, accept it, like the trees felled and axe story. Starting from a disastrous demonetization onwards, our economy has been on a tail spin. With revenue affected and no accountability on spending, looks like only way to keep the show running is to milk the few sources of revenue available to maximum. The taxes and duties that were increased manifold when oil went down almost to low $30s a barrel, still are there, when it's $60s a barrel. Since there ain't nothing else out there incoming, this delta can't be readjusted much. Indian economic crisis runs deep and Covid pushed it further hard to the wall. Not for any political point scoring - but do keep this in mind. What you vote for, is what you get.

[SN88]

The times are such that we just need to bite the bullet. Protests are met with an overzealous government hell bent on dampening any dissent, rather than focus on finding a line of consensus. It is going either their way or the highway!

I am surprised and quite in awe how the govt gets the very public who is getting hammered with their forceful decisions to come first line and start justifying their policies, NATION BUILDING in context to rise in fuel prices!!

One has to wonder when crude was well above 120 and we were paying 70 odd, was there no nation building for the same govt who used to protest on the road, rail roko, gherao, get a few celebrities to post a few sarcastic posts etc.

Dismayed but awed at the same time!!

[sarav100]

Originally Posted by CarBot

I was thinking about the same, crude oil prices went down but not the petrol / diesel prices. Now it has crossed Rs.100 (not yet in Bangalore, but eventually it will).

Now if one has the opportunity to migrate to a different country (say USA) should he consider doing it? Not only because of Oil prices but the over all inflation, real estate prices, education system, job satisfaction, 9-5 job which never happens in Indian IT companies, Over Time benefits and other labor laws and finally middle class being always stuck as middle class or just becoming upper middle class.

Sometimes I feel we try to justify the actions we take (e.g., moving out of India) to on going political and financial situations, but not sure if it will benefit in long run.

Not all may be able to control their life, but few can control where they want to be and how they want to lead life. Not all those people who can migrate would go, but many might leave India leading to Brain Drain. People who cannot leave the country will continue to show their dissatisfaction on WhatsApp and social media or convince themselves that we are building the nation. And I feel that's how life goes on and ends.

You couldn't be more right sir. I'm already in that queue and have applied for multiple nationalities.

[Sanjunair5]

Originally Posted by chaotic

my view - we are a flawed democracy as we view every thing through a political lens and are either for it or against it! Why not examine each issue/problem as neutrally as we can, creating a solution and then driving for it?

Your idea is good. But it is very difficult to stay neutral in this discussion. Let me explain why.

Government's job is a balancing act. They earn (via taxes, borrowings etc.) and spend (for freebies, subsidies, growth and job creating avenues). They also make policies that can prove to be beneficial in the short run or long run or both. These can be small time or big time reforms, that bring in private sector money into the equation.

This balance, I believe, is heavily imbalanced now. Private sector spending is low. I do not think lowering corporate taxes has helped. So government is forced to spend to bring growth back on track. Government needs money and so they are taxing the hell out of people. In the process government is sucking our purchasing power of consumers leading to a weak demand scenario. Which in turn leads to weak growth. Government's job is to balance their earnings and spending so as to achieve fast, high and sustainable growth.

The present government is struggling in this balancing act. And that is why I said it is difficult to stay neutral or debate about this situation without talking about the government.

[veedub89]

" Oh, I don't mind. My fuel costs are a fraction of my total living costs. I can handle an increase in fuel pricing."

People say this often and hence I think a much needed clarity is required.

Fuel costs impact almost everything you buy. And therefore effect your total living costs.

The obvious bit is transportation. A hike in fuel prices increases the cost of transporting a good from the factory to the market and eventually to you. The transporter will demand more money and ultimately you as a buyer will pay for it.
This is the easy straightforward bit that everyone knows about.

What some people may ignore is that diesel is also used to run industries.
Any big factory will have a power backup incase the mains fail. Which they tend to often in our country. These power backups use diesel. An increase in diesel cost increases the cost of manufacturing as well.

So commodity prices go up two-fold. Both in transport and in manufacturing.

[JojyKerala]

As usual, I'm surrounded by family members eagerly supporting every step the government takes. The petrol century has been justified through WhatsApp forwards that defy logic.

The government at the Centre was quite vocal against rising fuel prices when they were in the opposition. I'm not wrong to say that their protests on the streets and social media (Twitter, Facebook) back then were unique and helped them win a lot of followers.

Also, the Opposition isn't vocal at all. Maybe they can learn a lesson or two about protesting against fuel hikes from the ruling party.

Whatever said and done, I'm optimistic that our Prime Minister will take some steps to arrest the price hikes and bring the prices down in the next few days.

[Jeroen]

A bit of international context of petrol prices around the world:












Source: https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

Guess what I am paying? Hint: the third most expensive petrol in the world!

Jeroen

[vennarbank]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Think of it as:
a) your contribution to nation building
b) penalty for increasing pollutants and green-house gas on this earth

To be honest, when Petrol/Diesel become expensive then the alternative fuels / engines / supply chain will also start looking viable.

I agree. We want free vaccines for all. We want free handouts during covid period. We do not want increase in taxes. Government needs to take care of intruding neighbours. Where will money come from. I also accept that rate is too high but if we need so many free items, there is going to be taxation somewhere. BTW, let us talk from purely governmental POV and not make this a political discussion.

[IP_Man]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Think of it as:
a) your contribution to nation building
b) penalty for increasing pollutants and green-house gas on this earth

It's just not this. Increase in fuel prices increases cost of transportation and hence essential commodities also become costly. When fuel prices reduces, commodity price never come down. This all makes poor people's life miserable.

I strongly advocate fuel price regulation to curb inflation.

[any23]

Originally Posted by AirWind

I read this logic of ever increasing fossil fuel prices (taxes actually as crude is trading lower) so as to reduce consumption and thereby the reliance on these imported products that helps reduce the massive forex deficit... and this will help expedite migration to EV when there is no proper ecosystem (reliable EV, charging infra, etc.,).

This seems to be yet another flawed implementation plan by the govt. while the intent is good but execution sucks (GST, DeMo, RERA, Farm laws, etc.,) - hurting the common man and the honest tax paying citizens.

There is only one logic behind increasing fuel prices at present, earning more revenue the easiest possible way, In fact the in house country production of crude oil from refineries has gone down by 1-3% in recent times, and imports have increased. The logic here seems to import cheaper fuel and sell it 2.78(selling price 89.29/base price32.1 ) times costlier to rob the money from common man.
Moreover, at personal level I feel looking at the infrastructure there is no near future for EV in our country.
Since Covid-19 salaries have came down, people are now in saving mode and are reducing unnecessary expenses to save more, hence Gov. seems to be in tight spot for revenue generation, add to it demonetization, GST, Waiver of corporate tax, 6000/- a year to farmer just before election all this has lead to bankruptcy of Gov. it seems.