[tristis2008]

Originally Posted by RPM1706

Really looking forward to the 1.5 TSI here in the Kushaq.

Just hope the issues that had cropped up earlier with this engine - problems while pulling away from a cold start, stuttering during low revs, "kangarooing" etc. - stand resolved. Last I checked, a software update seems to have fixed the problem.

Anyone can throw some light on this?

There are no reports of kangarooing on team bhp, either from Karoq owners or T-Roc owners, as far as I know. Yes, T-Roc is little jittery with D1-D2 over bad patches. Karoq owners confirmed that the car does not suffer from this issue. However, this can be countered to a great extent by being light foot during such patches or using S mode. I am also in touch with several other owners, some of whom have driven up to 30000 kms, have not reported any issue of kangarooing. Too early, but no complaints on the DQ200 as well; touch wood.


Its good that the 1.5 + DSG combo will be available both on Kushaq and Taigun. That gives more confidence to the current owners of better service.

[rahulvv]

Originally Posted by gasinveins

You buy the car based on your needs and budget, and congrats on your new vehicle. Also, there is still a good amount of the population that don't do golf.

The amount of Lovers/fanboys for Kia is way too high on forums. They explicitly work like an IT wing for Hyundai/Kia defending an unsafe car that "Breaks". Does Love make us irrational?

Love does indeed make one irrational ! I am not making it personal, my only point is - readers come on this forum to get expert views and hence messages justifying Drum BRakes over Disc brakes can be misleading.

That was the only point.

[Latheesh]

Kushaq design is very close to Kamiq. This is a dashboard picture of Kamiq base variant mirrored. It give us an idea how the base variant dashboard looks (small screen, manual AC, no chrome, no piano black finish, no steering mounted control etc.)

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by rahulvv

Love does indeed make one irrational ! I am not making it personal, my only point is - readers come on this forum to get expert views and hence messages justifying Drum BRakes over Disc brakes can be misleading.

That was the only point.

Agreed some users justifying drums over discs can be misleading.

However I have a question -

What is important ?
Brake setup or stopping distance and confidence.

IMO, if stopping distance for any setup type (4 discs/2 discs and 2 drums/4 drums though do not exist) is shorter and more confident than any other setup including 4 discs, we all would prefer the first instead of having the second. Do you agree on that?

However we should wait for final judgements based on team bhp official reviews.

Because right now it's all speculation due to better previous performance of 2disc/2 drum setups of VW and Skoda as compared to 4 discs of other brands. We are still not sure if 2disc/2 drum setup in 2.0 launches with Kushaq/Taigun will outperform 4 disc setups of other brands as VW/Skoda have been doing previously.

So let's wait for the review. If they are found to perform bad then forum members should refrain from misleading others. But if found better then other brands need to explain their customers why are their 4 discs setup falling short in performance in front of 2 disc/2 drum setup of VW/Skoda.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by rahulvv

Love does indeed make one irrational ! I am not making it personal, my only point is - readers come on this forum to get expert views and hence messages justifying Drum BRakes over Disc brakes can be misleading.

That was the only point.

Automobile engineering (or any engineering for that matter) is based on function deployment. You engineer to meet a set of outcomes. The outcomes could be acceleration, stopping distance, maintenance intervals etc. You then work backwards to see what type of assemblies and technology is needed to achieve the outcomes. You never start by saying I want disc brakes, since it is not a user-facing feature. But you can start by saying I need ventilated seats for example. You always define the outcomes from a user perspective.

So if disc+ drum set up is the most optimal to achieve the outcomes of stopping distance, brake feel, maintenance and cost needs, then Skoda would choose that. In the case of Seltos, I don’t think the engineering department would have worked in reverse. It could be something as simple as the front discs + rear drums from their parts bin not being enough to achieve the outcome, and so needing them to go for all discs.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by rahulvv

Love does indeed make one irrational ! I am not making it personal, my only point is - readers come on this forum to get expert views and hence messages justifying Drum Brakes over Disc brakes can be misleading.

That was the only point.

I would trust industry experts like audioholic who as you can see from his post has perfectly mentioned the difference why manufacturers choose disc vs drums. After all he's from the automotive safety department where he works.

Both of them work equally well and for a car with the size and weight as Kushaq, Skoda has tuned the braking using drums at the rear whereas Kia has tuned them using discs. Final braking distance is what matters and as the overdrive video shows the Rapid with drums does a better job than Verna with discs. Even the tyres make a big difference.

Drums vs discs should not be a deciding factor. What should be seen is braking distance and even more importantly for an enthusiast is confidence under braking and brake feel. If the car does not give you confidence when braking even with 4 disc brakes, I would say it is pointless.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by rahulvv

Love does indeed make one irrational ! I am not making it personal, my only point is - readers come on this forum to get expert views and hence messages justifying Drum BRakes over Disc brakes can be misleading.

Rear disc brakes are used mainly for "safety" marketing purposes today in mass market cars .

For example, 2015 Verna facelift with rear drums has better braking than the Fluidic Verna with rear discs. Another example is S-Cross and SX4. Both cars have similar weight and same front brakes. Again the SX4 with rear drums has better braking.

The culprit is manufacturers using non ventilated, super thin and smaller diameter disc brakes at rear compared to the bigger drum brakes.

[Latheesh]

Kamiq base variant is priced just under 15L in Poland (similar 1L TSI + 6 speed manual), and it is overpriced according to them. Kushaq is a heavily modified version of the same platform and highly localized (95%).

Kamiq base variant has 6 airbags, Lane assist, front assist, hill hold control, heated mirrors, LED head light, rear wiper, ISO fix front and rear, driver alert, start-stop function, easy light assist, 60:40 split seat, bigger tires, and many other safety and comfort features which Kushaq do not have.

So, anything above 11L for Kushaq base variant = below average sale, above 10L = average sale.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Kamiq base variant is priced just under 15L in Poland (similar 1L TSI + 6 speed manual), and it is overpriced according to them. Kushaq is a heavily modified version of the same platform and highly localized (95%).

It is pointless to compare the price between different countries, as the car price in India is generally much higher than European markets. A quick search in BMW Poland website gives a starting price of approximately 25 lakhs (INR converted) for 3 series, and we know how much does a 3 series cost in India.

[udaikalra01]

Originally Posted by sunikkat

It is pointless to compare the price between different countries, as the car price in India is generally much higher than European markets. A quick search in BMW Poland website gives a starting price of approximately 25 lakhs (INR converted) for 3 series, and we know how much does a 3 series cost in India.

That isn't true. Cars manufactured in India are cheaper than those sold in most other countries. BMW cars aren't manufactured in India, that's the reason of price being higher than European markets. As 3 series comes as a CKD, it attracts various taxes. If it was manufactured locally, the price would've been much lower than that.

[gopi_rm]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Kamiq base variant is priced just under 15L in Poland (similar 1L TSI + 6 speed manual), and it is overpriced according to them. Kushaq is a heavily modified version of the same platform and highly localized (95%).

Please also consider the tax on raw materials, imported components and tax on the finished product before it hits the showrooms between Poland and India.

Originally Posted by udaikalra01

That isn't true. Cars manufactured in India are cheaper than those sold in most other countries. BMW cars aren't manufactured in India, that's the reason of price being higher than European markets. As 3 series comes as a CKD, it attracts various taxes. If it was manufactured locally, the price would've been much lower than that.

Yes in general the manufacturing cost is less in India compared to Europe but the overall Ex-Showroom price depends on the import duties for imported components and taxes charged on various items before the vehicle hits the showroom.

[Behemoth]

I spoke to the local Skoda Showroom in Gurgaon and wanted to check on the Skoda Kushaq and when it would be coming to showrooms. The sales person said that it would be launched in end of June and cars would be available to see in the showroom in first week of July. Also when I asked about the price range the sales person mentioned it to be 10-20 lacs ex showroom. So it seems from initial estimates of 10-17 lacs they have already upped their rates by around 3 lacs. The 10 lac variant is likely to be an elusive Eldorado which may never actually be seen on the roads and may be sold in very very limited quantities and may have very long waiting periods.

[udaikalra01]

Originally Posted by gopi_rm

Yes in general the manufacturing cost is less in India compared to Europe but the overall Ex-Showroom price depends on the import duties for imported components and taxes charged on various items before the vehicle hits the showroom.

Skoda has achieved 95% localisation with the Kushaq. That's even more than what Hyundai achieved with Creta (90%). So, I think we can expect it to be competitively priced, if not undercut the rival Creta.

Source1

Source2

[MaanSingh]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

sales person mentioned it to be 10-20 lacs ex showroom.

They can increase prices as much as they want, its just that sales numbers will explain everything in the end, in our very competitive Indian market

Taigun thread mentions expected price to be 9-15 Lacs, I think that would be a fair range for Kushaq also.

[abhishek_hch]

Originally Posted by rahulvv

readers come on this forum to get expert views and hence messages justifying Drum BRakes over Disc brakes can be misleading.

That was the only point.

Exactly the kind of nuanced, technical & enriching view that makes a lot of us come to this forum; repeatedly, day in and day out. Disc is always better than drums would be the view of any average Joe. To call the former misleading