[Guna]

Originally Posted by 07CR

25-27 Lakhs translates to around 31-33L OTR in Bangalore! Quite sure Mahindra won't go with such suicidal pricing.

My highest estimate is 22L ex showroom for the top variant.

I think the top variant you are referring to is a 2WD variant which comes loaded with features (6 airbags, panoramic sunroof, ventilated front seats...) and this would directly compete with the top variants of MG Hector and Tata Safari. I agree that this should never cross 27/28 lakhs OTR. But the variant with ADAS, AWD, 360 camera etc would be well justified to command 30+ lakhs OTR. Next cars (Tiguan allspace, Kodiaq) with these kind of features and specs would be close to 45 lakhs (if XUV700 achieves 80% of the refinement of these German cars, it still makes a compelling case)

[Moto_Bear]

Originally Posted by 07CR

25-27 Lakhs translates to around 31-33L OTR in Bangalore! Quite sure Mahindra won't go with such suicidal pricing.

You can get the base Endy and Fortuner at 34 lakh OTR here in my city. Even at 27 lakh ex showroom(meaning 31 lakh OTR here), does Mahindra have such a brand recall to warrant such a price? Sure Toyota can, not only because of the brand recall but also because a Fortuner is seen as an aspirational vehicle.

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

When the XUV (7OO) comes, it would bring in a whole new world of tech and features, and as much as the marque is known for disruptive pricing, the market situation and the name 7OO hints to me, that it perhaps would creep into the Darien gap I've shown below for the higher variants.

Although I do agree with Mr Vignesh about the Darien Gap existing in the 24 to 30 lakh range, Mahindra filling that Gap with XUV7OO seems a little far fetched as it had tried to do the same earlier with the G4. In addition, Hyundai with its Tucson and Jeep with the Compass have seen not very bright numbers here.To answer this question is very simple. Ask yourself this.

Would you prefer buying a Mahindra or Toyota or Skoda or Volkswagen for 30 lakhs?

Originally Posted by Singh09

Infact I am looking to change my ride as well and at current scenario I only have 2 options, either the Innova or XUV 500 but again when I look at Innova I always ask myself a question, that can you drive a plain jane, boring looking interiors cars for next 7-8 years? Well my mind says try it, but my heart literally yells and says NOOO.

Although, guys like us do exist who have a value attached to the XUV tag, who have memories with the brand and their vehicle, the sales of Innova do represent a contrary perspective. Innova is built like a workhorse in terms of reliability, a people mover in terms of space and it's comfortable in all the right spaces it needs to be and the numbers affirm that belief. While enthusiasts like us would prefer a Mahindra any day, the public prefers Innova and the data doesn't lie.(refer to Innova sales)

https://gaadiwaadi.com/toyota-model-...urban-cruiser/ Source: Gaadiwaadi.com

Plus the average rate of lemon cars and niggles on the Mahindra is exponentially higher than the Toyotas. (Refer to the link below for a detailed read)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...solutions.html (Mahindra XUV500 niggles & solutions)

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

In my opinion, the Harrier was, and is overpriced. And as a logical extension, the extended Harrier is also overpriced. I think it is comfortable in today's world based on initial euphoria of the 'Safari' comeback and also because of lack of credible competition except the MG, which a section of the market refuses to touch based on sentiments. The Scorpio and the XUV are both awaiting update and so the first mover advantage solely lies with this Tata.

I believe the answer becomes very simple as to how far Mahindra can go in terms of pricing. In his Original post, Mr Vignesh, while comparing The New Safari with the Old One, stated the above statement to which I agree without any doubt.

Mahindra as a brand is more synonymous with Tata, than with Toyota or Hyundai. A reason why cars like Creta go ballistic in terms of sale is because of what it brings to the table in a limited price bracket. Mahindra sure has that ballistic package. Whether Mahindra walks the Darien Gap or flies over it with the bags of cash(read a sales success) is dependent on where it decides to play. And if 31-33 Lakhs OTR is the case, I wonder what happens of the G4? Does it go the way of the Dodo with the XUV eating into its sales(what little it has)?

I believe Mahindra had learned a lot from the G4 fiasco and if it hasn't, we have another lesson at our hands. I just hope that it prices the vehicle sensibly as I have been waiting it for the past one year(since mid 2020), even canceling my booking for the Safari XZ+ after hearing about XUV's launch in October this year. If it gets overpriced, might as well pull some money from my portfolio, buy a Fortuner and call it a day.

[s.jain1990]

This seems to be an interesting offering from Mahindra. They may also offer customisable dials with a lot of graphics there.

Pricing the xuv700 right would be more important here and they should not price it above the new gen Safari.

It would be interesting to see if AWD is offered in this car or not.

I was recently checking their website and it looks like they have discontinued the 4x4 versions of xuv500 and scorpio. I was under an assumption that those cars are still available in 4x4 variants.

[MaanSingh]

Originally Posted by Moto_Bear

I have been waiting it for the past one year(since mid 2020)

Same here, I am expecting a decent Diesel Automatic XUV 700 to cost around 18 Lacs max, without any fancy features (to spoil the price)

That's what Safari is offering at that price point.

[karthick_b]

This is too early to start the price discussion without even knowing about the engine specs and features it is offering across the lineup. Let's just wait and see if they do a product launch of the XUV700 and showcase it in it's full glory. Usually car makers nowadays launch the products first and then take a month or two to announce prices. Till then let's just enjoy whatever leaks and info we can get at our hands.

[vivekshukla]

All of us expect Mahindra to give us a 80% quality of the Germans but expect them to price it 50% of them. Providing high quality comes at a high cost. They may aspire to have a world class product and may also have the ability to launch it but they have to price it as per the expectations of Indian customers otherwise it won't sell. In order to balance the equation they do cost cutting wherever they find an opportunity. Alturas G4 is brilliant product and only people who criticise it are the ones who haven't even stepped into it. Just because it was a Mahindra, it was expected to be priced lower in comparison to Endeavour and Fortuner.

If we want high quality, we should be reasonable with our pricing expectations. If we don't allow the manufacturers to recover the cost and make money, they won't be able to service it in the long run and bring in more innovation.

[petrol_power]

Originally Posted by vivekshukla

If we want high quality, we should be reasonable with our pricing expectations. If we don't allow the manufacturers to recover the cost and make money, they won't be able to service it in the long run and bring in more innovation.

I guess it doesn't work that way. Its not a straight forward equation of 1+1 = 2 when it comes to sales. If an unknown company manufactures a BMW M4 equivalent in terms of quality & all features including engine, and sell it at 20 lac cheaper, it will not garner the attention they expected to meet his economies of scale as there is no brand pull available. That DC sportscar is an example which can be looked at.

It takes ages to establish a brand name and when Mahindra is trying to get into a new premium segment, they simply cannot price at par with the established brands. Easiest way is to undercut competition pricing in a way which makes customer feel that they can try this brand as the pricing is way lower than other established competitors. and establish a name in that particular segment and then slowly increase the pricing depending upon its success, like all companies have been increasing their pricing. Its an old concept that pricing once fixed lower cannot be increased. If there is enough demand, we can easily increase the pricing.

Of course here we can see that Mahindra is bringing in ADAS and any more techs which is not offered by competition, but still with all these features, their brand has not grown enough in premium segment to price it at par with well established players. Its a slow time taking process, in which they can slowly roll it up.

[rahul_kej]

If Mahindra is in line to launch 5 seater XUV 500 in future then it wont be surprising that the top end XUV 700 can touch 30lacs OTR. With features like dual screen, ADAS, panaromic sun roof and there can be few segment first features which can justify the 3 million mark pricing or may be they price in such a way that even the state with highest road tax the otr comes just little below 30 lacs.

[Guna]

If Mahindra is reading this thread, I have one suggestion: Please don't make the top of the line variant only a 6 seater with the captain seats for the second row. That is the trend we have seen and I think it is not logical. Person who is spending the highest amount will get all the features but one seat less! Agree that the captain seats are more comfortable but still there would be people who want to trade 'comfort' for 'added practicality' of having an additional seat or being able to collapse both the 2nd and 3rd rows to create a large cargo area.

[Moto_Bear]

Originally Posted by petrol_power

It takes ages to establish a brand name and when Mahindra is trying to get into a new premium segment, they simply cannot price at par with the established brands. Easiest way is to undercut competition pricing in a way which makes customer feel that they can try this brand as the pricing is way lower than other established competitors. and establish a name in that particular segment and then slowly increase the pricing depending upon its success, like all companies have been increasing their pricing. Its an old concept that pricing once fixed lower cannot be increased. If there is enough demand, we can easily increase the pricing.

I agree completely and that's why Citroën India got so much flak for its pricing model. Citroën has fabulous suspension and I'm not exaggerating here(drove a C4 cactus in Europe), and look at its April sales here in India. Everyone was shocked to say the least when the prices were revealed and people stated it to be DOA. You can always increases the prices if there's a surge of demand due to the product being that good. But if you, on the launch, price the vehicle ambitiously and aim to compete with already established brands like Toyota, Skoda or Volkswagen for that matter, I don't expect to see much success.

Mahindra has already seen it with the G4. The G4 was such an amazing car and having one Rexton Rx7 in the family, I can very well say that the Korean company knew a lot about building great cars. I never drove it as I was 13 at that time but I loved how I felt while sitting I that car. But where it suffered was a poor pricing model for a name that no one was familiar with. Mahindra is not a big or even an established name when you go and buy anything north of 20 lakhs(and that too because of the XUV5OO). It thrives on Scorpio and Bolero sales, both of which sell at half the price of what this upcoming product would retail at.

Indian automobile market is not as price sensitive as it used to be, but people still prefer an established name or an aspirational vehicle if they have the cash for it. Mahindra in the premium segment has neither and thus, aptly fits the tag of an unestablished brand in that segment. A company can always increase the price of the car, after reaching respectable sales numbers. For any unestablished company in a particular segment to succeed, it has to either undercut the competition such as what the Original XUV5OO did back in 2011 or bring about a revolution in technology such as Tesla and even Tesla Model 3 is not overpriced by the American standards.

And agreeing to fellow Bhpians here, I think the real threat here is the Hyundai Alcazar. How it would be priced, would dictate a lot of variables for the success or failure of a lot of existing and upcoming vehicles in the 7 seater mid-size SUV segment.

[Pulse500]

I voted 15-21L.

I saw some people comparing pricing of Innova. Mahindra vehicles, atleast the XUV500, has very poor resale value, poor/unpredictable after sales service, history of niggles and higher total cost of ownership. These Mahindra vehicles, although supposed to be rugged (are heavy), rust very fast.

I own XUV500/w6/2011 model from the first batch. Based on my personal experiences and that of my close friends who own Toyota vehicles, I can confidently say that the Total Cost of Ownership of Mahindra vehicle over 10 years is higher than 2011 Innova model. Peace of mind with Toyota is extra.

Maybe my case was an exception, as I faced too many niggles in the beginning. Several times I even thought of suing Mahindra or just push the vehicle down a mountain. I never got the feel of using a brand new car. The vehicle spent more time in workshops than with me during first 3 years of ownership, always came back from workshops with scratches, stains, misalignments, missing screws and newer issues. Mahindra did provide me temporary replacement vehicle whenever my the estimated time to repair my vehicle was over 4 days, but cant compare the experience with that of a brand new owned vehicle.

Several Mahindra spare parts are more expensive (MRP) and less reliable than Hyundai and Maruti parts (my previous vehicles). Even expensive and lower quality than some Innova parts I came across in the local workshops. I had replacements of entire windshield wiper assembly with motor (twice), clutch and pressure plates (random juddering and slippage during warranty), window regulators (6 so far), door latches, dashboard (original one faded, virtually melted with dimples, replacement during warranty), pulleys, belt, turbo, AC evaporator, refrigerant hoses, radiator hoses, "silver box" (ICE, replaced during warranty), engine mounts (one cracked!), shock absorbers and other suspension parts, key fobs etc. List is endless. Even the headlamp assembly has bad design (dust caps meld, dust enters in the assembly and can never be cleaned, Mahindra quotes Rs. 26K+ per pair for replacement) Luckily, with some escalations, Mahindra offered me discounts on certain occasions (excluding headlamps), as they knew the history and how much time my vehicle spent in workshops.

Anyways, for last 4 years, vehicle behaved far more reliably with no engine or transmission issues. And I have got used to certain niggles or limitations.

My vehicle has accident free history, full maintenance records and has more frequent cleanup and lubrication services. But when I got valuation done for buyback and with 3rd parties, I was offered a significantly lower price for my cleaner XUV500 compared to a slightly older Toyota with 40% more Km on Odo and couple of minor dents/accident claims.

So why would one pay a price comparable to Toyota, upfront, when Mahindra vehicles depreciate so fast?

BTW, there is a history on why I chose this vehicle. I was looking for replacement of my 5 year old Hyundai Accent Viva CRDI then and had shortlisted sedans (Corolla, Elantra and Cruze). Cross-overs or SUVs were not at all on my radar, until I came across ads for Force-One and Mahindra XUV prior to their respective launches. After visiting dealerships, I dropped the ForceOne but booked the XUV500.

The attractive price of XUV, features, high sitting position made me to jump to a cross-over from a sedan. XUV500 later killed the C+/D sedan segment.

Can XUV700 cause any impact on the segment in which Creta/Seltos are sitting by offering an attractive, reliable and feature rich cross-over with 5 year warranty, better ride quality and better ASS? 7 seater size at the price of 5?

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Pulse500

I own XUV500/w6/2011 model from the first batch.

Several Mahindra spare parts are more expensive (MRP) and less reliable than Hyundai and Maruti parts (my previous vehicles). Even expensive and lower quality than some Innova parts I came across in the local workshops.

Sympathies & agree with you.

The consumable / regular service of a M&M vehicle is higher than that of a Toyota. Completely different segments, but a Fortuner's regular service is cheaper than that of a Scorpio [just consumables]. Roles are reversed when accidental part replacements are required but you have insurance to cover those up.

But, reliability over time [especially after 2/3 years when initial niggles are sorted is almost as good as Japs].

I believe the 2nd facelift of XUV [with the W10 variant] became much sorted as far as niggles / feel etc go, the W11 improved this further.

Issue is, M&M instead of focusing on building a reliable, no nonsense vehicle, tightening up its vendor & QC gets distracted and starts focusing on things whose novelty dies down weeks post its launch. And they haven't changed, example. How many people do any of us know who got XUV because of its cheetah inspired door handles?

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Issue is, M&M instead of focusing on building a reliable, no nonsense vehicle, tightening up its vendor & QC gets distracted and starts focusing on things whose novelty dies down weeks post its launch. And they haven't changed, example. How many people do any of us know who got XUV because of its cheetah inspired door handles?

Fully agree. Funny thing about 'innovation' is, the success doesn't just depend on how good the innovation is but whether a particular manufacturer has the history of coming up with useful/reliable innovations and the perception they have among customers.
This old article from HBR on 'product integrity' nails this point brilliantly: https://hbr.org/1990/11/the-power-of-product-integrity
May be over the years Mahindra will be known for innovative ideas but it is important to cover the basics well to begin with.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Pulse500

BTW, there is a history on why I chose this vehicle. I was looking for replacement of my 5 year old Hyundai Accent Viva CRDI then and had shortlisted sedans (Corolla, Elantra and Cruze). Cross-overs or SUVs were not at all on my radar, until I came across ads for Force-One and Mahindra XUV prior to their respective launches. After visiting dealerships, I dropped the ForceOne but booked the XUV500.

The attractive price of XUV, features, high sitting position made me to jump to a cross-over from a sedan. XUV500 later killed the C+/D sedan segment.

M&M had a reality check in 2011 with XUV5OO, the customer base was vastly different from their previous products. But as we know they scaled up pretty fast and within a few years, not only the product became better built but the customer care improved a lot by 2013. XUV went on a killing spree, not just sedans but existing premium crossover SUVs also vanished from the market.

Dealers will sell a 2013 for ~ 8L, we know this because we sold ours this year for a very good price and it was not what one would call excellent condition, it was just good.

[Moto_Bear]

Originally Posted by Guna

This old article from HBR on 'product integrity' nails this point brilliantly: https://hbr.org/1990/11/the-power-of-product-integrity

Thanks @Guna for such a brilliant article. It nails down very precisely why our Indian Companies such as Mahindra struggle in keeping up the Quality Control of their products as wells as other components in the production of a car.

Originally Posted by Pulse500

Maybe my case was an exception, as I faced too many niggles in the beginning. Several times I even thought of suing Mahindra or just push the vehicle down a mountain. I never got the feel of using a brand new car. The vehicle spent more time in workshops than with me during first 3 years of ownership, always came back from workshops with scratches, stains, misalignments, missing screws and newer issues. Mahindra did provide me temporary replacement vehicle whenever my the estimated time to repair my vehicle was over 4 days, but cant compare the experience with that of a brand new owned vehicle.

Let me assure you that the 2011 XUV5OO(AWD variant) that my father owned saw more time at the service station compared to my home, during the first 2 years of ownership and the feeling of buying a new car was never there. The competence of the staff didn't really inspire confidence and you would see a new dent or a new issue crop up everytime the car got back from the service station, the most consistent of these issues being the dirt or grease marks on various interior panels. After those 2 years, I believe the car was more or less reliable and the issues that cropped up were not of much importance, or maybe we stopped caring about them as much as we used to do initially. And I have to ask - What's with the wiper motors that Mahindra used in XUV5OO. I have come across a ton of "wipers not working" issues with fellow owners.

Furthermore, the constant testing of the XUV7OO has me a little confused about the Quality Control all over again. With the amount of time Mahindra has put into testing their cars, it's either that they want to ensure a niggle free experience for the customer or there were a ton of niggles cropping up from time to time and that's why the testing phase has lasted for this long.(maybe they want to apply the 18 month rule by themselves, so that we won't have to)