[Moto_Bear]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Fortuner is pushing 40.

If someone has a budget of 25, how can s/he stretch all the way till 40?

Maybe some can, but certainly not every 25 lakh rupee customer.

Assuming here that the Poll states Ex-showroom cost and not OTR price, the top spec XUV7OO would then cost 25 lakhs Ex-showroom. Going by the OTR charges in my state, you would see the XUV7OO top end variant going for somewhere close to 29 lakhs here. Currently, the base Fortuner(Petrol) goes for around 30.36 lakhs ex-showroom, which has the current OTR of 34 lakhs here.
There in lies the issue, in my opinion. And my two points for this consideration are as follows:

1. Higher Segment:

With a price difference of just 4-6 lakhs OTR, a car of higher segment, that is Fortuner would always have a leverage. Fortuners, in India, are not only cars. They're status symbols. They reflect your success, hence, their sales numbers affirm it despite the Toyota policy of raising the price every once a while. Fortuner is an aspirational vehicle for a lot of people and hence garners such respect compared to XUV. Having both of them in my home, I've seen the difference in people's behavior when I drive the former compared to the latter.

2. The times have changed but the segments haven't:

I remember, back when I went with my Dad to book the XUV5OO. It was such a sought after car and would make the Fortuner give a run for it's money. It offered features from cars a segment higher, and still was half the price of them. I remember before booking the XUV5OO, We were looking at both the Fortuner, and the Endeavor along with SsyangYong Rexton Rx7. Fortuner at that time was around 24 lakhs for the top end variant and the costliest car we were looking for was the Rexton which was 27.50 lakhs OTR. XUV5OO came into the market at 11-13 lakhs OTR and back then when the RTO charges were minimal, we got our W8, 4wd for around 13.50 lakhs. It has all disc brakes, ABS, ESP and 6 air bags. Yes, 6 air bags back in 2011 and then there's Maruti which won't put even 2 minimum, unless the law mandates.

Concluding here, what I mean is that back then for the XUV to work, it had features, safety and was a complete package on top of such a price. It(top end variant) was half the price of a fortuner(top end variant). I remember at that time even Safari was costlier than XUV and compared to it, the XUV gave you a lot more. For XUV7OO to succeed, it would need to do the same. Pricing it near the Big boys might not be fruitful for Mahindra and if any car needs to worry(if it is placed in 19-25 segment) it is the Compass. Fortuner and Innova will remain unscathed to the most part because of their consumer base. Mahindra is offering segment leading features but for it to kill the segments like the Original one did, the price becomes a crucial factor. Whether Mahindra wants a XUV(2011) experience or the Alturas experience is totally dependent on the price, the Indian market being price sensitive.(The reason why Maruti sells in such large numbers)

Note for the Mods: Kindly mention in the Poll whether the price being voted for is the On road or the Ex-showroom.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Moto_Bear

Note for the Mods: Kindly mention in the Poll whether the price being voted for is the On road or the Ex-showroom.

An OTR price would need a huge list. Or someone would need to code a couple of dropdown fields to accommodate State and Zip code inputs before spelling out an OTR price. It logically has to be ex-showroom in my reckoning.

[rpmmachine]

25 Lakhs ex-showroom and 30 Lakhs on-road doesn't make sense to me. You have to scrap it after 10 years and maximum 15years.
I will with many others go for Safari (held the booking with local dealer).
At this price, It will be another ALTURUS G4 for MAHINDRA.
Alturus was launched with so many features like 9 Airbags, 360 degrees camera, ABS with EBD, traction control, and many more.
AT that time it came 4-cylinder engine developing 180PS of power and 420Nm of torque. With these numbers, the Alturas G4 was at par with the Fortuner (177PS) and the Endeavour (200PS).
Still, Mahindra failed to sell it in good numbers even with so many features. It was a spacious, strong vehicle. Even no one picks it today with tons of discounts.

I knew a guy who has bought this in Jalandhar & was struggling in his 2nd year to sell it even at a much cheaper price.

At that price for me its Big NO (subjective), I know few people will go for it at this price even (same as Alturus buyers), but many of them will go for cheaper options. As it's not only the CAR you save the money but the spare parts, the insurance and many other charges.

Eventually, you need to get rid of this car after 10 years because I feel in few years every state will come with a 10-year policy for diesel vehicles and fuel prices will be astronomically high. People will rush for EV's and solar systems.

I Hope Mahindra will not cut their own throat with another ALTURUS G4.

[46TheDoctor]

Personally, i dont see XUV700 succeed if priced on par with the Innova because of the following:

XUV700 will be considered by the people who want seating capacity for 6/7 and who tend to do more outstation trips (read high mileage usage pattern). Others will buy from some premium brands like Jeep/VW/Skoda, etc. with a little stretch in budget.

But,

1. Just like Safari, XUV700 doesnt seem to have boot space like Innova with all the seats occupied which is an important consideration for someone looking for a people mover.

2. It certainly can't beat Innova in terms of the longevity, reliability and resale value. This is an important consideration for people looking for high mileage usage. Resale price potential will matter more than ever now, especially at the advent of Electric Car Era. Afterall, who will buy our mass market IC engine cars 5/7 years down the line unless it is a reliable workhorse like Innova which you can use reliably for even 15-20 years if you wish to.

3. Mahindra doesnt have premium brand value yet, so people are likely to consider other brands when looking for a car beyond 25 Lakh price bracket. We have seen this in the sales numbers of Rexton/Alturas. Mahindra should not make mistake of getting overconfident here due to success of Thar. Thar is a uniquely styled product without any direct competition and its priced on par with the compact SUVs, thats why its a success. XUV700 cant replicate that if its overpriced. Top end AWD variant with all the bells and whistles cant cross 27-28 L OTR (around 10% below Innova) if Mahindra wants to achieve good sales numbers.

[Shreyas Agarwal]

Originally Posted by Moto_Bear

Assuming here that the Poll states Ex-showroom cost and not OTR price, the top-spec XUV7OO would then cost 25 lakhs Ex-showroom. Going by the OTR charges in my state, you would see the XUV7OO top-end variant going for somewhere close to 29 lakhs here. Currently, the base Fortuner(Petrol) goes for around 30.36 lakhs ex-showroom, which has the current OTR of 34 lakhs here.
Therein lies the issue, in my opinion.

You have completely missed the point here. You are comparing the Petrol MT 4x2 Fortuner with the Diesel AT AWD XUV700 here. Where is the sense in that?

99% of Fortuner sales between January and March 2021 came from the Diesel variants. It is quite pointless to quote the price for the Petrol variant in isolation too.

If you look at the Diesel base price (mind you, which is also 4x2 and manual) is 33L which is about an 8L rupee difference in ex-showroom itself.

Now, if you think about it, a person who has decided to buy an automatic vehicle won't even consider a manual. The Fortuner Diesel 4x2 AT costs 35 lakh rupees ex-showroom which makes it a difference of about 10 lakh rupees.

Then comes the AWD, AWDs will only be bought by people who really want something that can handle some of the rough stuff, they would be opting for the 4x4 in the Fortuner if they were to buy it which comes at a price of about 38 lakh rupees ex-showroom, which is a difference of about 13 lakh rupees.

The 25 lakh price is indicated for the top end Diesel AT variant with all bells and whistles which Fortuner doesn't offer, possibly with ADAS along with AWD. These would only be opted by the people who really want a fully-loaded vehicle.
There would be lower variants too skipping on extra features, AWD and AT etc bringing the price down for those who don't need them.

1. Higher Segment:

With a price difference of just 4-6 lakhs OTR, a car of a higher segment, that is Fortuner would always have leverage. Fortuners, in India, are not only cars. They're status symbols. They reflect your success, hence, their sales numbers affirm it despite the Toyota policy of raising the price every once in a while. Fortuner is an aspirational vehicle for a lot of people and hence garners such respect compared to XUV. Having both of them in my home, I've seen the difference in people's behaviour when I drive the former compared to the latter.

Reiterating my point again, it is not just a 4-6 lakh OTR difference. If you at the very least want a Diesel Automatic only then too it's a difference of 11-12 lakh rupees OTR, which would widen further when you drop AWD from the XUV. Fortuner definitely belongs to a higher segment but also aks the price for it.

2. The times have changed but the segments haven't:

XUV5OO came into the market at 11-13 lakhs OTR and back then when the RTO charges were minimal, we got our W8, 4wd for around 13.50 lakhs. It has all-disc brakes, ABS, ESP and 6 airbags. Yes, 6 airbags back in 2011.

Concluding here, what I mean is that back then for the XUV to work, it had features, safety and was a complete package on top of such a price. It(top-end variant) was half the price of a Fortuner(top-end variant). For XUV7OO to succeed, it would need to do the same. Pricing it near the Big boys might not be fruitful for Mahindra

When XUV500 was first launched it was an entirely new product and had no brand leverage. Now the brand XUV has become big too. It has its own fan following and a good customer base.
You yourself say back in 2011 you bought the XUV 500 AWD for 13.5L and the Fortuner top-end cost 24L i.e XUV was about 56% of the price of the Fortuner OTR.

Now if Mahindra prices the top end AT AWD at 25L ex-showroom, it comes to about 28L OTR in Srinagar and a Fortuner top end costs about 44 lakh i.e about 64% of the price of the Fortuner. 56% in today's times would be about 25L OTR. I seriously think that the brand they have built over the years and the refinement they have achieved in their products in the recent past can command a premium of 2-3 lakhs in today's times.

Finally, they are keeping the formula the same. Blasting the vehicle with features no one has heard of this side of 30L.

I agree that they can be a bit conservative with the initial pricing by keeping it around 23.5 to 24.5L and not touching the 25L mark but if they do so too then also it won't be such a disaster as you point it to be.

Regarding the segments, I agree the segments stay the same but the prices they operate in do change, the Safari top-end Diesel AT costs 22L ex-showroom itself, the Alcazar Diesel AT with a lame 1.5 Diesel costs 20L ex-showroom and the Hector Plus even without a Diesel AT as an option costs 20L ex-showroom for the top end MT. Add the AWD, potent diesel mill, good AT gearbox, a bucket list of features (flush door handles, possible ADAS etc) and you can very easily arrive at a price tag of 24L if not 25L.

People seem to be forgetting that the top end variant with AWD etc is being talked about, variants specced similarly to the competition would be priced similarly too IMHO. Its not like they are bringing in one variant only with a 25L price tag.

Or should Mahindra drop some features, put the 1.5 mill from the Marrazzo, get rid of AWD and AT and bring the so called "top-end" at 18L ex-showroom just to keep prices in check so as not to cross competition and price it at 50% of the Fortuner's price.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Shreyas Agarwal

People seem to be forgetting that the top end variant with AWD etc is being talked about, variants specced similarly to the competition would be priced similarly too IMHO. Its not like they are bringing in one variant only with a 25L price tag.

Or should Mahindra drop some features, put the 1.5 mill from the Marrazzo, get rid of AWD and AT and bring the so called "top-end" at 18L ex-showroom just to keep prices in check so as not to cross competition and price it at 50% of the Fortuner's price.

mHawk and mStallion is the logical engine options, considering 7OO's positioning it has to be quick on its feet - it was not marketed as a family vehicle , so 1.5 won't do it.

There is a gap from Hector to Fortuner in pricing, I see no other product coming up in there apart from 7OO. ADAS, adaptive lights, memory seats, ventilated seats, AWD, 200 bhp engine - should command at least 3-5L premium from the present pricing. 30L? Sure why not.

[Shreyas Agarwal]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

mHawk and mStallion is the logical engine options, considering 7OO's positioning it has to be quick on its feet - it was not marketed as a family vehicle , so 1.5 won't do it.

There is a gap from Hector to Fortuner in pricing, I see no other product coming up in there apart from 7OO. ADAS, adaptive lights, memory seats, ventilated seats, AWD, 200 bhp engine - should command at least 3-5L premium from the present pricing. 30L? Sure why not.

I meant it in a sarcastic manner. I wanted to say that because Mahindra is bringing everything on table they should be allowed to command a premium for the same unlike the other brands who miss out on one thing or the other like the Alcazar misses out in the engine department, Hector misses out on the Gearbox and the Safari on an AWD so as to keep prices in check. They shouldn't be forced to follow others just to keep prices of the top-end variants lower.

In my whole post I have been justifying the premium only.

[daywiz]

Originally Posted by Shreyas Agarwal

Regarding the segments, I agree the segments stay the same but the prices they operate in do change, the Safari top-end Diesel AT costs 22L ex-showroom itself, the Alcazar Diesel AT with a lame 1.5 Diesel costs 20L ex-showroom and the Hector Plus even without a Diesel AT as an option costs 20L ex-showroom for the top end MT. Add the AWD, potent diesel mill, good AT gearbox, a bucket list of features (flush door handles, possible ADAS etc) and you can very easily arrive at a price tag of 24L if not 25L.

I still am of the opinion that while most companies do it, it is not necessary to blindly follow pricing of competition like sheep and increase prices. I also agree inflation, cost of materials and operating costs have gone up and you are getting more features in your vehicle. However, it still wont justify a 5 lakh premium for a full option vehicle when comparing to the present generation (ex-showroom price). We are discussing about a segment where even 1-2 lakhs is considered a big markup. Being an "Indian" brand, there should be some homegrown benefit.

While I wish it to be cheaper, I think 22L - the so called top end Diesel AT is the best they should go for. Just because TATA does it, doesn't mean Mahindra also needs to do it. You can still have a lower price and compensate on pure volumes. Its not like they are not already commanding a premium for the present generation itself.

Originally Posted by Shreyas Agarwal

I agree that they can be a bit conservative with the initial pricing by keeping it around 23.5 to 24.5L and not touching the 25L mark but if they do so too then also it won't be such a disaster as you point it to be.

24L isn't conservative, that's downright greedy. Its simply too high a price for the reasons I said above.

Originally Posted by Shreyas Agarwal

Or should Mahindra drop some features, put the 1.5 mill from the Marrazzo, get rid of AWD and AT and bring the so called "top-end" at 18L ex-showroom just to keep prices in check so as not to cross competition and price it at 50% of the Fortuner's price.

That's a bit too extreme but I am not paying 18L for that setup, I would want it cheaper.

[rpmmachine]

Had a quick word with someone from Mahindra (regarding some complaint on Twitter) and they told me that it will be launched anytime after July.
Prices will be revealed on the website same time.

Hope news about the launch on INDEPENDENCE DAY (15 August)is true.

[Moto_Bear]

Originally Posted by Shreyas Agarwal

You have completely missed the point here. You are comparing the Petrol MT 4x2 Fortuner with the Diesel AT AWD XUV700 here. Where is the sense in that?

Hi Shreyas. My complete reasoning for this comparison lies in two basic sociological concepts: social stratification which get combined with an aspiration for vertical mobility in the aforementioned social hierarchy. Let me explain. If for 30 lakhs, one could buy the top end XUV or a Fortuner, which would an average person choose? Similarly, if for 42-43 lakhs, one could buy the Fortuner top end or a Mercedes GLA base, which would he/she choose? As an individual our choices may vary but the general consensus is that given an opportunity to raise one's social status and hierarchy in the society, one would always work towards achieving this goal. That's why Toyota is a more sought after brand than Mahindra, and Mercedes is more similarly, than Toyota.

Now, if you think about it, a person who has decided to buy an automatic vehicle won't even consider a manual. The Fortuner Diesel 4x2 AT costs 35 lakh rupees ex-showroom which makes it a difference of about 10 lakh rupees.

My reason for comparing the MT variant is based on the sole fact that currently in India, only 17.3% of the total vehicles sales account for the Automatic Transmissions and surely this number has increased leaps and bounds when you compare it to 2011 figures where it was 1.4%. In India, we do not have any specific want in terms of transmissions. Some of us would prefer them but for a lot us, it won't be a deal breaker. But as you stated, if a person wants to go for an automatic only, he'll have limited options according to his budget.

Then comes the AWD, AWDs will only be bought by people who really want something that can handle some of the rough stuff, they would be opting for the 4x4 in the Fortuner if they were to buy it which comes at a price of about 38 lakh rupees ex-showroom, which is a difference of about 13 lakh rupees.

If Offroad is one's thing, XUV7OO doesn't make much sense with that Ground clearance. I appreciate Mahindra for offering it but AWDs are not meant to handle rough stuff. That's what 4x4 are for. AWD only facilitate better traction in very specific scenarios. An AWD will never be as competent as a 4x4 and this I say from personal experience, having driven my XUV5OO AWD for almost 7 years now(which I am only willing to give up for the 7OO). It just offers better traction in a lot of places compared to a 4x2 and that's all it does in my opinion. An AWD would remain on roads mostly and for people who want to handle the rough you have 4x4.(On a different note, due to a lack of 4x4 culture here, I wonder how frequently that 4x4 shifter gets used?)

The 25 lakh price is indicated for the top end Diesel AT variant with all bells and whistles which Fortuner doesn't offer, possibly with ADAS along with AWD. These would only be opted by the people who really want a fully-loaded vehicle.

When XUV500 was first launched it was an entirely new product and had no brand leverage. Now the brand XUV has become big too. It has its own fan following and a good customer base.

A lot of fellow BHPians would agree with me when I quote the example of Toyota Innova. Innova gives you comfort, it gives you space and it gives you a 2.8 oil burner which is amazing in my opinion. It doesn't require any fancy bell or whistle for it to sell(I'm pointing at you Hyundai). But still you will find people who will buy Innova, against the rising prices, against a lack of bling features. What works for them is the brand value, the reliability and the after sales. Mahindra lacks the first and the last, and reliability after a year or two becomes good after initial niggles are sorted. While Innova is a good car and not a great one, but I believe a lot of companies can learn a thing or two to sell their cars in higher segments, without putting a lot of bling on.

Or should Mahindra drop some features, put the 1.5 mill from the Marrazzo, get rid of AWD and AT and bring the so called "top-end" at 18L ex-showroom just to keep prices in check so as not to cross competition and price it at 50% of the Fortuner's price.

I don't believe XUV at 18 lakh ex-showroom(for the top variant) would even be worth buying. And even if it's priced at 25 lakhs, it wouldn't in any way amount to failure in sales(I'm going to get me one of these, irrespective of the price). What I've stated in my earlier posts as well is that the success that I personally would want to see XUV7OO achieve, would get hindered by placing it closer to segments where the whole Value For Money thing would start to blurr out which was the original feeling with which people bought the XUV.

Further what I mean by comparing Mahindra to Global brands such as Toyota is, that the after sales and the brand value as a whole associated with Mahindra is not great. It's average and you would find Mahindra lagging in terms of both as compared to Toyota.

What I would also add is that everything that's being discussed here is solely based on assumptions. We have no information regarding the price bracket and even Auto-Journalists themselves aren't sure. So the best thing for all of us to do would be to wait, let Mahindra give us more information(a lot more), then we can have a fruitful discussion on the price.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by daywiz

24L isn't conservative, that's downright greedy. Its simply too high a price for the reasons I said above.

Safari top end model is 21.6 L Ex showroom. Do you think it is reasonably priced?
I think something like this is quite fair and would be acceptable for the target buyers:

• A variant which directly competes with Safari top end (2WD diesel automatic which is loaded with features like panoramic sunroof, 6 airbags,....) = 21.5L
• 4WD variant with all above features + rear independent suspension = 23L
• Topmost variant which also would have ADAS, memory function for the driver seat, 360 degree camera etc. = 24.5L

[octane_100]

Looking at the engine specifications and features list, I believe Mahindra have enough to straddle across 2 segments. I feel the "lower" variants could be specced to take on the Hectors, Alcazars and Safaris of this world and the top end variants can compete with the likes of Compass, Crysta and Tucson.

[ruzbehxyz]

Latest video of the Mahindra XUV7OO

https://youtu.be/wsXN8xMUKJs

[Guna]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

Latest video of the Mahindra XUV7OO

If you look at 1:30 onwards, it has got a display for the 2nd row seat passenger and if you notice the video being played, it appears to be another
XUV700. That seems to be a live video. I wonder if they are testing the front camera or something related to the ADAS.

[motorworks]

Sorry, but in which parallel world are we comparing the Fortuner and the new XUV700? The Fortuner costs a whopping 38L for the base variant in a city like Bangalore! So even if Mahindra launch the XUV at a slight premium over the Safari, which they should considering all the extra features, it is still going to be at least 10 lakhs cheaper than the Fortuner for any variant! And that’s a lot of money!

Although I’m not a fan of the increasing prices across cars, we have to accept that this is the new reality! Why should Mahindra alone try and offer a shocker of a price when everyone including Hyundai, Kia, Skoda have all been charging premiums and getting away with it? It’s not like Mahindra is significantly lower in brand positioning compared to the others. Sure, they need numbers, but it cannot come at the cost of profitability. And, they also have to keep in mind that the 5 seat version will come later, so a very low price will compromise both the cars.

Like I said, Mahindra should try and price the XUV700 at a slight premium over the Safari. It seems like a bigger vehicle, has a host of features, and technology inbuilt, so that should be the starting point. The Safari starts at around 18-19 lakhs and goes all the way to 27-28 lakhs on road, so the XUV700 maybe slotted between 19-30, leaving something like 16-26 lakhs for the 5 seat XUV500 later. Is this what I want? No, but it’s the reality considering the segment.