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Old 18th April 2021, 10:22   #16
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
If a customer was not inclined to buy a Maruti Ciaz in the first place, for whatever reason, then he is not likely to buy a Toyota badged Ciaz either.
My confusion is, why wouldn't a person ready to buy a Glanza, just buy a Baleno instead and save some money? I don't think there are too many buyers nowadays who don't know they are the same cars.

But it kind of gives a reassurance to Baleno buyers. "If it is good enough for Toyota, it is good enough for me!" And Nexa sales personnel will not fail to point out the rebadge matter to prospective customers.
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Old 18th April 2021, 10:42   #17
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Given Toyota India's almost half hearted experiments with Etios & Yaris & so called success with Glanza & Urban Cruiser, I’m not surprised that they have decided to extend this arrangement with Suzuki however it disappoints me nevertheless.

If one looks at their global portfolio the only product that is worthwhile for them to bring here is Hilux. There is a pent up demand for lifestyle pick-up trucks & Isuzu can’t seem to make up their mind if they really want to bring their current version of V-Cross here. As for Ford Ranger, we still don’t know if Ford has made up their mind to stay/invest in the Indian market in the long term. Given Fortuner's continued success inspite of Toyota's outrageous pricing; I wouldn't be surprised if they launch Hilux here at Rs 45/50 lacs and it still sells in reasonable numbers.

I have been reading with interest the impending launch of the RAV-4 as a CBU at a possible price of Rs 40 lacs and shaking my head. Going above Fortuner would also not help Toyota as they have already burnt their fingers with ludicrous pricing of the Prado and then there is the upcoming Land Cruiser which if launched in 2022 will sell 200-300 units at 1.5Cr & Toyota is happy.

Indian customer’s insistence to equate price with size (by and large) when it comes to cars & Toyota’s inability to develop platforms for the Asia pacific/South American/African mass markets that cater to the customers peculiar sensibilities has resulted in a situation where more and more of the market share in these geographies will be gobbled up by Hyundai-Kia combo who not only have a better knack of reading customers’ pulse but also have mastered the art of controlling costs when developing new platforms thereby resulting in better pricing for the end customers.

For all this talk of the 3rd/4th biggest car market in India; please note that the revenue per unit for the Indian market that remains abysmally low when compared with some of the more mature markets where Toyota gets ample opportunity to segment its portfolio without needing to worry whether a particular hatchback is less than 4 metres or not. Reasonable local/import tax structure in these markets allows Toyota to source their vehicles from their manufacturing hubs in the geographical proximity (case in point Canada levies 5.7% import tax on vehicles manufactured outside of NAFTA).

There’s only so much money that companies can invest in development of fresh platforms and in the larger scheme of things India still remains a relatively small market for manufacturers such as Toyota in light of these factors at least in the medium term. The ever increasing pressure for EV conversion and Toyota’s near empty pipeline for the hybrid/electric powertrains is a further impediment to company’s willingness to invest in platforms that will become redundant in next 10 years in most of its major markets.

Toyota seems to be satisfied with selling its vehicles in North American/European/Australian markets and that will remain its focus in the foreseeable future.
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Old 18th April 2021, 10:54   #18
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Despite having a very positive opinion of Toyota in general I am confused about this. As a strategy it makes perfect sense to capture a healthy slice of the 4th or 5th biggest auto market ie take over the market leader. But for us the poor customer what benefit does this re-badging bring. Better ASS? - Maruti is quite good to start with. Better cars with Toyota legendary reliability? - can't see how as it is exactly the same Maruti under the badge !?! Better price? -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
My confusion is, why wouldn't a person ready to buy a Glanza, just buy a Baleno instead and save some money? I don't think there are too many buyers nowadays who don't know they are the same cars.
Unfortunately, some buyers of these 'Toyota' cars have one or more of the following opinions:

1. Toyota is building these cars and they have better material and quality control incorporated.

2. Toyota service experience is premium compared to Maruti.

3. Toyota brand has higher snob value.

4. The minute design difference between the Maruti model and it's Toyota counterpart can appeal to some of us. And a color palette available for Toyota models. For example, I like the blue on Glanza than the one available on Baleno.

5. Toyota models might have shorter waiting periods and some discounts. I can't be sure of this though.

The moderate success of the Glanza and Urban Cruiser shows there are people who believe in one of the above factors.


As for Toyota, they have several reasons for going with this badging idea.

1. With the upcoming CAFE norms, these small petrol cars will help them meet the limits without much capital investment. Their own portfolio only has big SUVs and vans (and of course, their own small cars failed to take off).

2. These models give extra sales and service volumes to their dealers. With some cross-shopping, they could sell a pricier model to the buyer and not lose sale to competitors.

3. They're able to export it to other global markets where there's demands for such models.

4. Numbers show the overall sales these Maruti+Toyota models have gone up too. Maruti can't complain of poaching.

This alliance has been a win-win so far, for the buyers as well as sellers.


I just hope they don't take it too far and launch Toyota Cafe Mocha, a micro-suv!
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Old 18th April 2021, 12:07   #19
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

I have read somewhere that Toyota cant bring global products into our market at affordable prices unless they cut on some parts (expense) here and there, which in the long run might affect their brand image. So what about selling rebadged Ciaz, Baleno etc ? I am pretty sure other than the logo and grills, there is no major difference. I guess their strategy is to use their partnership with Suzuki to have a bite at the market share below the Crysta with rebadged products. It was also clear last year that they don't have much plans to scale up or expand in our market.

Hope that they do better this time with the Ciaz, compared to the glanza which didn't look that different from the Baleno. Also whatever happened to the deal where the Corolla would be rebadged and sold under Maruti ?
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Old 18th April 2021, 12:55   #20
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

With so many automobile firms packing up from India, I'm not very surprised at this news. Who would want to innovate for a niche market and then be stuck with either low volumes or low margins?

We sometimes think we're smarter than these automotive giants and are free to dispense advice on how they should treat the Indian market.

For the sake of ensuring a more healthy automotive industry, I do hope Toyota does decent sales one way or another so that their interest in the Indian market is continued.
I hope that the Suzuki vehicles do well with the Toyota badge and with the volumes they bring in, Toyota shows some courage in the higher end, with some vehicles that are best in class, perhaps some new offerings in the Hybrid or EV space.
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Old 18th April 2021, 14:20   #21
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Good for dealers as compared to yaris, ciaz will definitely gain more traction and eventually A.S.S will earn more. But as a customer its just sad to see a manufacturer of Toyota’s stature reduced to this in our market.

I hope we are not reduced to just two manufacturer(Maruti, Hyundai) market eventually.

Last edited by SoumenD : 18th April 2021 at 14:22.
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Old 18th April 2021, 14:54   #22
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

The other day i was reading in some news that Toyota's rebadged vitara brezza is doing three times better in terms of sales in south africa than the suzuki brezza. So somehow people are finding their reasons to buy rebadged toyotas.

For India, I believe not only toyota but the other japanese automakers are lethagic to varying extents in introducing newer models, in comparison to indian and other multiple national companies.

Indian government auto policies or courts interventions don't help the matter. The companies feel insecure when there are doubt in longterm consistency in the auto environment in the country.
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Old 18th April 2021, 15:07   #23
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Really, really lousy. They are probably thinking why bother with the effort if we can just slap T badge & sell. Curious to know how many Urban cruisers are they able to sell vis-a-vis Brezza. That can be an indicator of how much Indian customer goes for a ride on the T badge. This strategy is reminiscent of GM in US, Buick, Pontiac etc...
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Old 18th April 2021, 15:23   #24
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

The year is 2025, Toyota can no longer play the reliability card as people are more aware. The Crysta is priced at 60 lakhs and the Fortuner tries to compete with GLS/X7. They are barely surviving on rebadged Marutis .
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Old 18th April 2021, 15:43   #25
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Grill design for rebadged Ciaz as shared by my source.

Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta-screenshot_20210418153638__02.jpeg

Rebadged Ertiga is also in the offing. Heres the grill design.

Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta-screenshot_20210418153646__02.jpeg

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 18th April 2021 at 15:53. Reason: Added watermark. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 18th April 2021, 16:01   #26
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Good, given the economic policies of this country; companies are doing the most beneficial course of action.

Cutting losses and pulling out.
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Old 18th April 2021, 17:25   #27
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Ciaz itself is due for an update. If Toyota is going to sell rebadged Ciaz now, when can we expect the Next Generation Ciaz?
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Old 18th April 2021, 17:43   #28
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

This news is as sweet as honey. How about motorcycles? Let's say (hypothetically speaking) Suzuki's SF will be rebadged and sold as Honda's. Naturally, cutting costs and grabbing that market by its horns.

Last edited by GTO : 19th April 2021 at 08:38. Reason: Poorly Typed Post
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Old 18th April 2021, 17:53   #29
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

In a way given the success of the Glanza and the Brezza in the Toyota portfolio this makes perfect sense and the Ciaz is a much more rounded and competitive product than the Yaris could ever hope to be. It was still born from day one. The segment had moved on into the distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I have to just weep at the missed opportunities. If Toyota had brought the pick of their global portfolio here, they could have been a force to reckon with. But the wrong product choices stunted Toyota's growth prospects.
While it may look odd taking into account their global might it is not surprising. The Corolla is a wonderful product but we need to remember that it is a budget/economy sedan in it's volume markets the way the Baleno and the Swift are in India. It is a global Baleno.

Indians perceive sedans as premium vehicles and shelling out 14 -20 lakhs for a sedan expect a premium experience with respect to the interiors especially. And given that the competition was the likes of the Jetta, Elantra etc the game was never really on. And in 2006 we had the Civic which simple smashed any semblance of hope the Corolla had. With newer entrants coming into that space eventually even the Civic lost out. The global production standards while enabling Toyota to sell cheap globally tacked on additional cost in India without giving the necessary premium feel. The global economy quality is premium quality for OEM suppliers in India and costs are proportionately higher. Those who have experienced the Polo/Golf abroad can vouch whether the Polo interiors in Europe are the same quality of that in India. I remember driving the 1.4D Corolla and thinking about the insane 18 lakhs it cost on road. The Swift VDI i owned at that point had a 1.3L engine and knocked the socks off the Corolla in terms of performance. The Jetta Comfortline with the 2.0L diesel cost similar and the brand premium was so much more. Now with SUVs dominating that segment, premium sedans are more of a niche category.

I don't think anything in the Toyota portfolio can compete effectively at the Baleno/Brezza/Ciaz price points. Even the Fortuner/Innova in my assessment are quite overpriced but being a bigger products are able to sustain that premium and deliver the required margins.

We do have another global player VW which is in a worse off state with it's India strategy. Now with Skoda driving the 2.0 strategy things seems to have gotten off to a better start but the long term sustenance is still to be seen.

Ultimately time will tell whether Toyota's partnership with Suzuki trumps the Skoda-VW one.

Drive on,
Shibu.

Last edited by shibujp : 18th April 2021 at 18:01.
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Old 18th April 2021, 17:54   #30
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re: Rebadged Maruti Ciaz to replace Toyota Yaris. EDIT : Named as Toyota Belta

Toyota themselves killed Yaris by exorbitant pricing an that image stayed even after corrections. Now with rebadged Ciaz I'm expecting this as a poor strategy unlike Glanza or VB. The market is moving towards cross overs and SUVs. A rebadged SCross with touches of Toyota front grill and sun roof could've helped them more in footfall as compared to a ciaz. That car is well built too.
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