[Karvel]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

I dont understand Toyota's thinking here. Baleno sold 21k vs 3k of Glanza in March21. Ciaz itself sold 1.6k in March so even a Toyota branded Ciaz might do 1k in an optimistic scenario.

What does Toyota expect to gain from all this given the dismal numbers overall?

Originally Posted by akshatmangal

Just a thought, could this be a strategy by Toyota to not invest in petrol and diesel vehicles in India, rather work on getting better EV"s and hybrids and till then they use Maruti rebadged cars to generate numbers, so their dealership doesn't run out of patience.

@Nilesh : There are about 250 Toyota dealers in India. This sale of 3k Glanza, on an average, adds about 2-15 vehicles to each dealership every month. In a 2-3 years time gives a good 10-40 vehicles count for servicing, repairs, claims, insurance works etc which adds significantly to the margin of the dealer. About 50% of the dealer margin comes from these activities and balance from new car sales. Add Urban Cruiser and rebadged Ciaz, then we are talking about a good domino effect on keeping dealers coffers running. Cost for Toyota to keep the dealers happy and interested and maintaining the service levels come down significantly.

@Akahatmangal : Exactly. This will help them remain in the market, retain the interest of their dealerships and launch new cashcow experimental vehicles periodically without much worry like VW or R/N combo or Ford.

[Garth]

Toyota has enough sedans in their global portfolio. Still they resort to this.
They just need to fix the core problem, which is pricing of their products and that might help shore up the sagging sales.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by Garth

Toyota has enough sedans in their global portfolio. Still they resort to this.
They just need to fix the core problem, which is pricing of their products and that might help shore up the sagging sales.

Perhaps they don't think that its worth investing more money in the Indian market currently. Or maybe they feel (like some Team-BHPians) that they are incompetent and lazy and hence unable to crack the Indian market. So they decided to re-badge some Suzuki models that are already accepted by the discerning Indian audience and hope that it brings the much needed numbers to their kitty.

Looks like it's working for them, with no additional costs, and no risks of being saddled with yet another dud after Etios, and Yaris.

[aquavivarium]

Toyota is not interested in competition with Hyundai etc. It has its own niche and due to suzuki ownership does these silly rebadgings.
My purpose of posting is none of the above , I see an opportunity in a Yaris J CVT . With discounts n goodies at 10.5 L On road you get 5 star chassis , 7 speed CVT, 1.5 engine , eye closed reliability and cheap maintenance.
Dealers are giving Blaupunkt touch screen , camera ,ceramic coating etc.

Pls note it is also one of the quietest cars and had 3 airbags

Can any vehicle beat this deal !

[sunnysideup_]

This news is especially disappointing because it comes at around the same time Toyota announces a Rav-4 sized all-electric vehicle in China for global markets (the bZ4X concept). If all their action thus far haven't made it clear, this announcement of rebadging the Ciaz screams they really don't care at all about our market, and are just here for the quick profits.

While a small portion of the blame must be taken by the consumers, if so many other manufacturers relentlessly soldier on, why can't you, Toyota?

I really want you to care, please. Give us at least Daihatsu models, if you can't bring in the international Yaris or the Rav 4. Bare minimum.

[Drive Head]

The way the Toyota behemoths, Fortuners and Innovas, prices are sprinting north, the day isn't far when they will be completely out of reach of common populace. They are already slipping out.

For Toyota, if the things are not streamlined now then they would be sidelined sooner than our expectation.

The new trend of launching Toyutis and Marotas isn't going to take Toyota too far.

Hope I am proved wrong and the market embraces the change.

Amen!

[RJK]

If anyone knows the answer, presumably Maruti manufactures these cars & sends them to Toyota for badging or probably badges them as Toyota from their factory itself and sends across to Toyota. How is this sale accounted? Maruti books this sale of a unit to Toyota & then Toyota books the same unit sale to customer?

[low_rider]

So now we can safely say that Maruti's quality is equal (if not more) to the Toyota's legendary quality. We should be proud that our Indian company is now in the same quality league as the Japanese.

Maruti can also use a tagline - "Under a Toyota's hood, you will find a Maruti".
or "When it comes to quality, even Toyota trusts us".

[ZenMaster]

Originally Posted by RJK

If anyone knows the answer, presumably Maruti manufactures these cars & sends them to Toyota for badging or probably badges them as Toyota from their factory itself and sends across to Toyota. How is this sale accounted? Maruti books this sale of a unit to Toyota & then Toyota books the same unit sale to customer?

The Urban Cruisers and Glanzas are made in Harayana itself, so you can figure out where it comes from

Also for everyone crying about Toyota's laziness, this is exactly what Suzuki does in European markets. Ever heard of the Suzuki Across and Suzuki Swace?




Yup! You are looking at a bagde engineered RAV-4 and Corolla Estate sold as Suzukis

The real question should be why aren't these coming to India

Toyota has more money than will and for them this "Jugaad" is the best way to keep the Indian Arm functioning, keep the brand alive outside the Innova/fortuner market and also keep the dealer networks pleased with the least amount of effort.

As investors say, "Don't work for money, let your money work for you!"

[PrasannaDhana]

Rumours coming in that the Toyota's version of the Ciaz will be christined Belta

Oh gosh!

[RJK]

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

The Urban Cruisers and Glanzas are made in Harayana itself, so you can figure out where it comes from

Thanks, but my question is more from accounting perspective.
If Maruti books a sale to Toyota, that means for every Urban Cruiser sold, there's a unit sale increase in Vitara Brezza, isn't it? That's fantastic for Maruti shareholders!
Or am I getting it wrong?

[aashishnb]

While all the enthusiasts seem to be upset and very sad with this, here are some dispassionate thoughts.

Sharing platforms is the like the holy grail in the auto world. All automotive companies try to optimize by offering multiple vehicles with similar underpinnings.
For e.g. VAG group - cars branded as Volkswagen / Skoda / Audi have the same base and while the toppings are changed. Same with many other groups - Hyundai/Kia, General Motors, etc.

Now, Toyota has definitely taken it to like another level. Instead of changing the toppings, they've just changed the logos & name. Atleast, some of the 'bells & whistles' on top could've been changed, but then again with the 'Toyota philosophy' and level of detailing every process and part has to go through, they're probably better off not tinkering.
Some may remember the TV episode (don't remember the series) - what Saab did when GM bought it and asked them to just keep the vehicles same as the existing GM models and the Saab engineers went ahead and changed it almost completely. I seem to remember they dropped a Saab vehicle upside down and still the cabin & A,B,C pillars were intact, showing how safe Saab was. Toyota would've gone the same way if they'd have tried to optimize/upgrade/etc. and lost the plot.

Looking at the pricing of their successful (& failed) products in India, even if they tried to launch vehicles from their global portfolio, in all likelihood it will either be priced out of the market or they'll have to cut corners & costs (and then BHPians will rant why we do not get global products but compromised products; why we are treated as third world; etc.). Especially, with their level of over-engineering and quality of service.

To give a corollary, they could be like Apple/Samsung and charge higher for their phones upfront or be like Mi/Vivo/ and charge lower upfront and have a small stream of revenues coming over the lifetime. Neither are right or wrong. Hyundai/Kia seems to have followed the second strategy, looking at some recent incidents I've been reading here (of course, it is wrong to generalize based on a few incidents).

I think they learned the valuable & correct lesson and not tried to do a GM, Ford, Fiat, etc. and keep losing money before someone decides to shut shop one day. They are giving their own global lineup at prices they can make some profit on and customers are willing to pay + Suzuki products at prices customers are willing to pay.

[Venkatesh]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Rumours coming in that the Toyota's version of the Ciaz will be christined Belta

Oh gosh!

It seems to be true

Toyota trademarks Belta moniker for its Yaris replacement



Source

[GNG19]

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

The Urban Cruisers and Glanzas are made in Harayana itself, so you can figure out where it comes from

Really? This comes as a surprise to me. I had thought Toyota manufactures the Glanze/Urban Cruiser themselves? Thought it would be one differentiating factor.

Regarding the posts about the Yaris: I had gone to check it out recently. The versions they sell these days only have 3 (driver+passenger+driver knee) Airbags, no ESP etc. I cannot speak for it's differentiating factor with reliability as Honda and Maruti are quite good in this department, but in terms of safety, I wouldn't really bother giving it a second look.

Back OT: Makes a lot of business sense for Toyota to minimise their risk and continue to keep the cash registers ringing. There's no doubt it'll dilute their brand though in this country. But perhaps they stopped caring about that a while back.

[ZenMaster]

Originally Posted by RJK

Thanks, but my question is more from accounting perspective.
If Maruti books a sale to Toyota, that means for every Urban Cruiser sold, there's a unit sale increase in Vitara Brezza, isn't it? That's fantastic for Maruti shareholders!
Or am I getting it wrong?

I guess it gets booked the same way Exports are. May be as "sale to another OEM"or something of that sort. It will definitely not come under the Maruti "market share" because I guess that would be illegal.
But as far as investors are concerned, it doesn't matter how the cars are sold. At the end of the day, Volumes and Revenue matters.

Also, this badge engineering is not just Toyota's Jugaad project for India. The Urban Cruiser and Glanza are sold in markets like South Africa also. The Glanza is called the Starlet in S.A.

https://youtu.be/Ik-wePTC4Jg

But in this case, I don't know whether its exported as a Maruti Suzuki or a Toyota

At the end of the day both companies are making maximum profit with minimum effort.