[GTO]

Originally Posted by maheshm619

Found this meme in a Facebook car-related page :

Originally Posted by gopalnt

Why is that the Rebadging is happening only one-way? Why is that Innova or Fortuner are not sold from Maruti's stable?

The bigger company with way more money, buying shares into the smaller company usually calls the shots. While Toyota definitely wants to buy into Suzuki for the brand's Indian presence, Suzuki was even more desperate because it doesn't have any technological capability. Remember, they had tied up with arrogant VW at one time!

It's clear who the boss is in this tie-up.

[Tapish]

What a bad name to go with, Imagine telling your friends you bought a Belta, sounds like a diesel generator. These companies definitely have Indians in their Marketing team, can't they do a basic check before putting in their money on weird names like this. I would gladly accept a Toyota V/G or a number instead of Belta.

Am I the only one who is thinking of the "Belte-belt" viral video?

[Technic90]

Innova and Fortuner registered segment growth. 61000 units of Glanza and Urban Cruiser sold till date. Correct me if I am wrong, there is no impact on sales of Baleno and Glanza as well. So I guess everyone is happy - Maruti, Toyota, Dealerships and customers

Both these models (Urban Cruiser, Glanza) have been a great success for us. The very idea of this alliance was to jointly collaborate on strategic partnership for enhancing both companies’ competitiveness and cover segment areas in which each company has scope for product line-up enhancement. Moreover, our focus has been to open avenues for new customers to experience owning a Toyota vehicle. This is something we are truly proud of as both these products have helped us welcome a lot of first time Toyota buyers into the family, which we see as our real gain. As of March 31, 2021, we have clocked total sales of more than 61,000 units for these two models (UC & Glanza). The growth in sales for both the models can also be attributed to the rising trends in the low end of the market, caused by the personal mobility strengthening considering the pandemic scenario.

https://www.financialexpress.com/aut...nnova/2236110/

[aditya.bhardwaj]

And there we go. A simple rebadge for the "belta".

Source - https://gaadiwaadi.com/toyota-badged...-in-india/amp/

Edit - just saw the *rendering note

[vaasscit]

I believe Toyota would well be aware of the negatives (dilution of the brand image etc.,) of this badge engineering exercise. However, they HAVE to do this to meet the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency) norms.

In Phase 1 (2017-2022), CAFE norms require average corporate CO2 emissions to be less than 130 gm/km by 2022. In Phase II (2022 onwards), this stands reduced to less than 113 gm/km and could be further tightened to 108 or 104 gm/km.

Toyota which relies on Fortuner and Innova (both are not known for fuel efficiency) would definitely have to find ways to bring their weighted average of sales volumes with fuel efficient vehicles. Everyone knows who is the king when it comes to Fuel Efficiency ! Yes, Maruti.

I also strongly believe that Toyota is bringing in Hybrids like Camry and rumored RAV4 to our shores to meet CAFE norms.

What I don't understand is this : Toyota as a brand has never compromised on safety. How did they become so short sighted and just pasting Toyota badge on Maruti Vehicles which are notoriously famous for poor safety performance ?

They could have paid the penalty (if any) for not meeting the CAFE standards and stayed away from badge engineering for the time being and develop new Gen vehicles with Maruti which could comply with Toyota's high internal standards at a higher cost vs Maruti. Just my two cents.

[pradeep_mvpa]

Originally Posted by aditya.bhardwaj

And there we go. A simple rebadge for the "belta".

Source - https://gaadiwaadi.com/toyota-badged...-in-india/amp/

Edit - just saw the *rendering note

Expected a better job from Toyota. Alloys look pretty much like Glanza which gives an impression of an inferior car compared to Ciaz.

[digitalnirvana]

Lousy and lazy attempt in copying the Ciaz. I'm just gonna leave this here.

[nagr22]

I don't understand Toyotas logic in this. Toyota sold ~2500 units of Glanza as against ~16000 units of Baleno. Thats around 15%. By that logic, Maruti sells ~2000 units of ciaz and even if Toyota manages 20% of it in the name of Belta (Name makes me ), that works out to 400 units per month, which is exactly what yaris was getting sold inspite of its higher price. So rather than launching the facelifted yaris and address its shortcomings, what will they gain by selling the same number of units of a rebadged car? The former would have helped them play to their strengths of QDR but the latter will further dilute the brand.

Yaris was brought by people who valued safety, build quality and reliability over everything else and that group of people will never touch a rebadged maruti. The type of people who prefer ciaz has no reason to go to Toyota except badge value. Baleno and Brezza have a waiting period so some may hop on to Toyota showrooms to get their hands on a car soon by booking Glanza/UC. Ciaz is a slow seller even for Maruti and I don't see why anybody would go to Toyota. In my opinion, this is a suicidal move by Toyota and they totally deserve it.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by nagr22

Yaris was brought by people who valued safety, build quality and reliability over everything else and that group of people will never touch a rebadged maruti. The type of people who prefer ciaz has no reason to go to Toyota except badge value.

You think so high of that boring Yaris man.

If the market or the "type of people who value safety" proved us anything, it is that they don't buy lukewarm products like Yaris that excels in no singular aspect. Yaris is one car that even the Toyota badge couldn't save. And yes, you also make Toyota sound like a luxury brand, which it definitely isn't.

Except for the build quality and safety (both cars are yet to be tested though), Ciaz is a much better car than the overpriced Yaris. It is as reliable, way more spacious and comfortable and personally, looks better than the Yaris.

Both are extremely boring cars that can take you from A to B.

Contrary to your opinion, I believe it's a good move by Toyota. As someone said earlier, people who want to avoid overcrowded Nexa/Maruti A.S.S may opt for the Belta. Everything is good if it makes you move more cars off the showroom floor. Some of the decisions like naming Gravitas as Safari, selling rebadged Marutis by Toyota may make us disappointed. But the bigshots who make these decisions are definitely more aware of the market pulse than us.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

You think so high of that boring Yaris man.

If the market or the "type of people who value safety" proved us anything, it is that they don't buy lukewarm products like Yaris that excels in no singular aspect. Yaris is one car that even the Toyota badge couldn't save. And yes, you also make Toyota sound like a luxury brand, which it definitely isn't.

Couldn't agree more with you ! The Yaris was a boring car that did not excel in anything in particular. Only saving grace was the number of airbags it had the the perceived reliability quotient. But that doesn't sell a car anymore. It has to be desirable. In that sense, it is not a bad idea to discontinue Yaris and start selling rebadged Ciaz. The Ciaz is a much better car than the Yaris. Even the safety aspect is decent. If I remember correctly, it got a 4 Star rating unlike a lot of other Maruti models. And as far as brand value goes, there is not much difference between a Toyota and a Suzuki. I am not sure why many people think otherwise.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

Even the safety aspect is decent. If I remember correctly, it got a 4 Star rating unlike a lot of other Maruti models.

That was an Indonesian made Ciaz which might not be same structurally as Indian version. I am being the pessimist here as we have seen many companies making India spec cars a bit inferior to cut costs.

We never know how safe or unsafe yaris/ciaz are, until we get the Indian spec cars tested by Global NCAP. Until then calling Yaris the epitome of safety because it has 7 airbags is equal to calling a Ford Figo a safe car just because it has 6 airbags, when it barely managed 3 stars in the Global NCAP tests.

[GNG19]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

We never know how safe or unsafe yaris/ciaz are, until we get the Indian spec cars tested by Global NCAP. Until then calling Yaris the epitome of safety because it has 7 airbags is equal to calling a Ford Figo a safe car just because it has 6 airbags, when it barely managed 3 stars in the Global NCAP tests.

Agreed completely. This has been my concern with most of the cars we have in the market currently. Our impression of safe/unsafe cars and manufacturers is mostly anecdotal as we simply do not have hard data for several cars produced in India. An ASEAN/Euro NCAP rating may not be valid for what we have over here.

That & the Yaris doesn't even have 7 Airbags now. The versions which a customer can purchase today only have 3 Airbags (and no ESP).

[arunramaswamy]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

We never know how safe or unsafe yaris/ciaz are, until we get the Indian spec cars tested by Global NCAP. Until then calling Yaris the epitome of safety because it has 7 airbags is equal to calling a Ford Figo a safe car just because it has 6 airbags, when it barely managed 3 stars in the Global NCAP tests.

For that, one has to look at the previous track record of all Toyota cars sold in India. Their cheapest car Etios/Liva was rated 4*. Toyota has traditionally not sold any cars with unstable structure anywhere because it is their ethos, along with reliability. That is exactly what Toyota customers pay for.

Food for thought.why did Toyota pick Baleno and Brezza for rebadging and not Swift/Dzire which could have provided them with more or less the same volume?

Disclaimer-Not a Toyota fan and neither am I on their payroll.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by arunramaswamy

For that, one has to look at the previous track record of all Toyota cars sold in India. Their cheapest car Etios/Liva was rated 4*.

Their cheapest etios and liva were the only India manufactured Toyotas that were crash tested. So the track record as you have said is pretty limited.

I have no comment regarding the claim that every model of Toyota sold was structurally stable. I could just remember some nasty ghastly pics of last Gen innovas and qualis after accidents. But what metric is that when it can't be quantified? Just going by assumptions like how we did with Yaris.

Disclaimer : I dislike all brands equally.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

That was an Indonesian made Ciaz which might not be same structurally as Indian version. I am being the pessimist here as we have seen many companies making India spec cars a bit inferior to cut costs.

Thanks for the clarification. I had lost interest in Maruti long back and never bothered with the specifics. And yes, Maruti and Hyundai have proved that they can sell inferior cars in India while they can export safer and better cars from the same plant.

So, if 4 stars was for Indonesian version, I retract my words. But like you said, we don't know how safe the Indian Yaris is. We can consider them equal I guess.