[Venkatesh]

Upcoming City Hybrid to get Honda Sensing tech in India.

City Hybrid in India will come with Honda Sensing features like lane departure warning system, adaptive cruise control, lane keeping assist, auto high beam assist, emergency braking and front collision warning system.

The City hybrid comes with Honda’s i-MMD, the hybrid technology

the i-MMD hybrid set-up in the new City is made up of two electric motors and an internal combustion engine. A 98hp, 127Nm, 1.5-litre, four-cylinder, naturally aspirated Atkinson Cycle petrol engine sits under the bonnet of the new City.

The first electric motor, which is integrated in the petrol engine, assists and acts as an integrated starter-generator (ISG), while the second motor sends 109hp and 253Nm of torque to the front wheels via a bespoke gearbox with a single, fixed-gear ratio.

Expected to be the most fuel efficient sedan in its segment

Source

[ask77]

https://youtu.be/6glpZTRT6qE

This Honda presentation details the working of the hybrid system.

[dipen]

Below City specifications from Malaysia should give us a fair idea. The City 1.5L e:HEV model specifications should be very close to what we get here. You lose about a 100 litres of boot space.

One wish : Hope Honda can try to give us the same ultra-suede interiors and some of the blackened chrome bits. Not a fan of this spoiler

Source = https://evault.honda.com.my/pixelvau...b3dc869474.pdf

[audioholic]

While I was really interested to own a Hybrid someday, the fact that the City Hybrid would not carry the conventional full hybrid setup make me look away. In this implementation, the electric motor would be the primary source of energy for the car. The engine would only drive the car directly in limited conditions and at high speeds. For the rest of the time, the engine spins at its own speed and the motor accelerates the car. Due to this, the hybrid capability would be neither exploitable as a pure EV nor as a combined ICE+EV mode. What you get is a hybrid that decides how it would operate.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by audioholic

... would not carry the conventional full hybrid setup .... ...the hybrid capability would be neither exploitable as a pure EV nor as a combined ICE+EV mode.

The wheels would not get the combined power of the ICE+EV for sure.
However at lower speeds, it should operate in pure EV mode if the battery is fully charged and the ICE would kick in to charge the battery and to power the electric motor once the battery charge goes below a certain level.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

However at lower speeds, it should operate in pure EV mode if the battery is fully charged and the ICE would kick in to charge the battery and to power the electric motor once the battery charge goes below a certain level.

The catch here is, the car comes with a rather small battery that could only operate in Pure EV mode for 2kms before it runs out of juice. So the most you can use this system is during prolonged stop start traffic where the consumption during idling by an ICE is eliminated. This was why I mentioned its neither here nor there. Typically I would expect such a hybrid to be operable in pure EV mode for at least 10-20kms, so that it would take care of a typical city commute. Otherwise, give a solid dual mode with a mindblowing performance with a not so good pure EV range. But here we have neither.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by dipen

Below City specifications from Malaysia should give us a fair idea. The City 1.5L e:HEV model specifications should be very close to what we get here. You lose about a 100 litres of boot space.

The biggest issue IMO is that the hybrid comes without ANY spare wheel, much like the Accord hybrid IIRC. It just sports a “repair kit”. That’s an instant deal breaker for me at least, not sure of other potential buyers.

That one issue aside, this would make for a BRILLIANT option if they bring it into India. I really wish they could design these to accommodate a spare wheel too. Makes it completely impractical to use given Indian road conditions. These are not even run flat tyres like BMW etc I imagine.

EDIT:
Wasn’t aware of this @Audioholic. Will have to see the specific performance criteria. I had assumed this is a full system proper hybrid they’re launching. Not sure I fully grasped the technical difference below but will read up on this aspect at some point.

Originally Posted by audioholic

The catch here is, the car comes with a rather small battery that could only operate in Pure EV mode for 2kms before it runs out of juice.
…
Typically I would expect such a hybrid to be operable in pure EV mode for at least 10-20kms, so that it would take care of a typical city commute. Otherwise, give a solid dual mode with a mindblowing performance with a not so good pure EV range. But here we have neither.

[alenp07]

Originally Posted by audioholic

While I was really interested to own a Hybrid someday, the fact that the City Hybrid would not carry the conventional full hybrid setup make me look away.

I am a potential sedan buyer, expected to decide in the coming months. My shortlist is Honda City VX CVT and Slavia Ambition AT. Nevertheless, the news with Hybrid City got my attention and if it has real potential I could extend my budget (if and only if it is worth it )

Now as per my understanding even though City doesn't run in pure EV mode, in actual city driving conditions the e-motor will be powering the wheels isn't it? This could offer better fuel economy in city driving conditions. Added to this with 250Nm torque the hybrid one will be more city-friendly than the conventional IC engine setup. And my question is if we are purely talking from the economical perspective don't you think that City Hybrid make sense?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by alenp07

Now as per my understanding even though City doesn't run in pure EV mode, in actual city driving conditions the e-motor will be powering the wheels isn't it? This could offer better fuel economy in city driving conditions. Added to this with 250Nm torque the hybrid one will be more city-friendly than the conventional IC engine setup. And my question is if we are purely talking from the economical perspective don't you think that City Hybrid make sense?

Purely from the economical perspective, its a definite yes. Especially when you compare this with the Slavia which is a pure ICE car. Not only in city driving but most of the time it is the motor that powers the car. Due to the absence of a gearbox with multiple ratios, the engine can only drive the wheels in a limited set of scenarios. So the joy of driving pure ICE when you need is not possible here compared to Hondas earlier hybrids.

But from the cost perspective this will rock and the premium paid to buy one should be far less than a full blown hybrid which can work both ways. And don't go by the torque figures of the motor. It will be mostly starting torque and that would die down at higher speeds. Having driven the best of best Electric cars, I will bet that this car will be exciting at sub 100kmph speeds and after that take it's own time for progress. That is where a full blown hybrid would shine with the engine taking over.

[buntee90]

Originally Posted by audioholic

But from the cost perspective this will rock and the premium paid to buy one should be far less than a full blown hybrid which can work both ways.

I believe that is whole point of Bringing City hybrid in India. Maybe 1L Premium over ZX CVT for VX like levels of equipment to keepl the OTR 1-2L below 20L

A full blown hybrid like the Accord or Camry in the city will easily push the cost around 25L and it wont find any takers then. People will just buy an updated MGS EV(with around 380-400KM range) with high ground clearance and City Hybrid will die a slow death just like the Civic did. EXTREMELY important for Honda to price it right!

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by alenp07

And my question is if we are purely talking from the economical perspective don't you think that City Hybrid make sense?

That's where the pricing becomes really really important!

I have been following this car since the rumors first broke and I am really keen to see how Honda is going to price it and how it drives. I don't want to buy for efficiency alone if the drive is really strange or disorienting while going fast.

That said, I don't think Honda can afford a very high premium over the normal City.

1. I believe, Honda got one foot out of the door here already and I won't be confident about their commitment to the Indian market with a high sticker price for the RS Hybrid. Its one thing to be holding a discontinued Civic, totally another to own a complex hybrid with the manufacturer missing!

2. The acceleration of the Hybrid is good, and it will be one of the fastest cars here in urban speeds, but the outright performance isn't it's forte. I bet the normal petrol City could be faster on the highway, and the VAG twins with the 1.5 TSi is another league altogether!! And its not like the petrol City is a fuel guzzler either. So, a higher price could totally make it less convincing for both the heart and the head.

3. Hatchbacks are dead, sedan is in heaven and everyone is happy with crossovers & UVs back on Earth.

I could very well be wrong! <fingers crossed>

The RS hybrid will make a brilliant case for anyone with a lot of running in urban situations - constant start stops, low speed commutes, short trips - the Achilles heel of the BS6 Diesel. And from what I read and hear, it returns stellar efficiency of 25+ KMPL regardless of how one drives! One can give it full beans and it won't drop much lower - it's like a Diesel MT in that regard!

I am also really keen to check how the build quality is, given the current City is not the flagbearer for that. Again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, pricing is going to be key!

[kadanaJ]

Originally Posted by audioholic

The catch here is, the car comes with a rather small battery that could only operate in Pure EV mode for 2kms before it runs out of juice. So the most you can use this system is during prolonged stop start traffic where the consumption during idling by an ICE is eliminated. This was why I mentioned its neither here nor there. Typically I would expect such a hybrid to be operable in pure EV mode for at least 10-20kms, so that it would take care of a typical city commute. Otherwise, give a solid dual mode with a mindblowing performance with a not so good pure EV range. But here we have neither.

In the case of the City Hybrid's unusual set-up, I feel there is no difference between having a 2km or 20km battery.

Why? Because this isn't a plug-in Hybrid. If you could charge the full 20km at home and use only that in the city, the bigger battery makes sense. Since the engine is the only avenue to charge the battery, whether the battery provides 2km or 20km of charge makes no difference. The engine will have to run to charge the battery regardless of range.

The only difference the 20km battery would make is that maybe the gaps between the engine switching on-off to charge the battery would be larger. But ultimately, fuel consumption would remain the same.

A larger battery would take up more space, add weight and increase costs.

[pratikonomics]

I have a strong feeling that this will be badly priced for India.

[Content Reactor]

In the Malaysian version, the City hybrid doesn't have a spare wheel. They give a repair kit instead. While it's probably to improve mileage, I hope they retain the spare wheel even at the cost of boot space.

[Shreyans_Jain]

A space saver wheel can be put inside the main boot area, mounted vertically on the side. Similar to what Tata has done on the Tigor EV.