[volkman10]

One time the Government arm-twisted the OEM's to switch to EV's, then were told on CNG, next came Flexible-fuel vehicles.

NOW the stage is set for Hydrogen . Toyota should be happy now

India has tested the Hydrogen Vehicle. Now have to make ourselves industry-ready to utilize hydrogen as a fuel for transportation.

Link

[IP_Man]

There is so much of a cry about growing pollution due to ICE cars but government is conveniently silent on planting new trees.

Existing trees are being butchered, our flimsy law rules can not stop that. We have lost so much of jungle, now that area is barren for e.g. eastern ghat section. We are loosing oxygen, our congested cities are now suffocating.

In rural section due to milk based economy, production of methane (greenhouse gas) is a big problem. Why government is not making Gobargas plant mandatory?

[antz.bin]

There is a difference between crop-based fuel emissions and fossil/crude-based fuel emissions.

Crops pull carbon from the environment for growing, which was then converted to fuel and burned in an IC engine. No new (buried deep underground) carbon was introduced in the system which wasn't already there.

That is not the case with Fossil Fuels. The carbon present in fossil fuels was lost for thousands/millions of years but has now been pulled out and, after burning, set free in the atmosphere. This is true for Petrol, Diesel, LPG, CNG. None of them is any better than the others in this regard.

If they can figure out low water/low land requirement crops with high yield, nothing like it! It will give some much-needed competition to the fossil fuel industry. With emissions equivalent to that of the EVs (no net new carbon added while operating the vehicle). If sugarcane is too water-intensive, what's the issue with corn? Jatropha? Used vegetable oil from restaurants and homes?

Let farms run like for-profit ventures, exactly what they ought to be. Then let the free market decide the value. Wouldn't an industry like this be eligible for carbon credits? Do they still exist? That should help sweeten the deal for farmers.

Not trying to make the discussion political but the amended farm laws would have enabled such reforms if only people can see beyond the immediate future.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

There is a difference between crop-based fuel emissions and fossil/crude-based fuel emissions.

Crops pull carbon from the environment for growing, which was then converted to fuel and burned in an IC engine. No new (buried deep underground) carbon was introduced in the system which wasn't already there.

If we consider the production of bio fuel, we will be adding more carbon into the atmosphere. The only way forward is solar, wind & EVs, they too have their own carbon footprint but they offset very quickly (less than 5years) and can be used for another 20 years.


"Over the same period, however, CO2 emissions from fermenting and burning biofuels increased by 132 teragrams. Therefore, the greater carbon uptake associated with crop growth offset only 37 percent of biofuel-related CO2 emissions from 2005 through 2013. In other words, biofuels are far from inherently carbon-neutral."

https://theconversation.com/biofuels...eres-why-64463

[qaqa]

Biofuel is not a viable alternative. Not even as a stop-gap till EVs become more prevalent.

Biofuels amount to using up our already scarce water resources, using up arable land, and stressing the environment with pesticides and fertilizers for meeting fuel needs. The effect of all of these on the environment isnt going to be particularly pretty; I'm not even sure that on an overall basis the carbon footprint would be lower when compared to fossil fuel.

We should stop aping ideas from the west (read the Americas) where ethanol fuel is essentially a massive agri-subsidy scheme. They have millions of square-km of land that they can deploy; abundant water in many areas. Despite all of this, ethanol wouldnt survive without govt support.

[Venkatesh]

India will not extend 2022 deadline for tighter fuel efficiency rules for carmakers.

The deadline to meet CAFE norms will not be extended,” adding that some concessions could be considered if it sees serious intent by automakers to invest in clean technologies.

In a second phase starting from April 1, 2022, India has proposed tightening carbon emissions to 113 grams per kilometer

Reuters

[BLACNWYTE]

Union transport minister Nithin Gadkari has asked auto manufacturers to roll out flex fuel vehicles which can run on 100% ethanol or gasoline. Maybe this can bring the fuel prices down. However, this dosent seem to be a mandate but rather a suggestion.

Link to news:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.times...w/85002934.cms

[coolmind]

The minister said consumers will have a choice between petrol and bioethanol and a switch to the alternative is also essential for the country because of the surplus production of crops like rice, maize, corn and sugar, from which bioethanol is made.

Union Minister Nitin Gadkari said India will make it mandatory for auto manufacturers to offer vehicles running 100% on biofuels in the next six months.
Such a move will be cost-effective for consumers, who are hassled by the high petrol prices, the Minister said, pointing out that a litre of bioethanol cost ₹65 as against ₹110 for petrol.
The fuel is also less polluting and saves forex.
“We are committed to delivering vehicles with flex engine norms. We have taken a decision, we will make it mandatory by which there will be a flex-engine,” Mr. Gadkari said at an event hosted by brokerage Elara Capital.

SOURCE

[volkman10]

India to make it mandatory for auto makers to offer biofuel vehicles in 6 months: Minister

We are committed to delivering vehicles with flex engine norms. We have taken a decision, we will make it mandatory by which there will be a flex-engine

India will make it mandatory for auto manufacturers to offer vehicles running 100 per cent on bio-fuels in the next six months. Such a move will be cost-effective for consumers, who are hassled by the high petrol prices, the minister said, pointing out that a litre of bioethanol costs Rs 65 as against Rs 110 paid for petrol. The alternative fuel is also less polluting and saves forex.

consumers will have a choice between petrol and bioethanol

many of the crops, the minimum support price offered to the farmers is higher than the commercial price or the one in international prices, making it essential for diverting the harvest for the overall betterment of the country.

Efforts are also underway on using hydrogen as a fuel, and to tap the gas from sea water and sewage water,

Link

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Union Minister Nitin Gadkari said India will make it mandatory for auto manufacturers to offer vehicles running 100% on biofuels in the next six months.
“We are committed to delivering vehicles with flex engine norms. We have taken a decision, we will make it mandatory by which there will be a flex-engine,” Mr. Gadkari said at an event hosted by brokerage Elara Capital.

I just wonder if six months notice is enough for manufacturers to design, develop and test the new technology and launch flex engines. I'm not sure if any car makers here were already working on this. Guess there were reports about ethanol pumps coming up in the country. But six months timeline is too unreal. Or did I read it wrong? Is it that the mandate will be announced in next six months? More ambiguity than clarity is the norm with all these policy announcements, be it scrappage policy, BH series etc. This statement is made by the minister at a private function which means it's not an official announcement.

[drivingmelody]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Union Minister Nitin Gadkari said India will make it mandatory for auto manufacturers to offer vehicles running 100% on biofuels in the next six months.

Why this urgency to move away from fossil fuels?. There was a planned transition to start using Electric vehicles in the next few years. Now there is a strong push for 100% ethanol vehicles.

The way things are changing in this space, the petrol prices are bound to skyrocket in the next few years. The government wants to promote Ethanol as the preferred fuel for all those who can't still afford an electric vehicle.

Does it make any sense to buy a petrol vehicle in this scenario?

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by coolmind

Union Minister Nitin Gadkari said India will make it mandatory for auto manufacturers to offer vehicles running 100% on biofuels in the next six months.

And there goes all sense and logic out of the window.

I am all for the technological, environmental and consumer benefit changes. Also, there is no doubt that for most industry leaders, profits are first priority. However, passing unplanned/ conflicting diktats hurts the industry and overall business sentiments in India.

In last few years we have seen many such orders. 100% EVs from 2030; forget 100% EVs from 2030, go for fuel efficient vehicles ; Bi-fuel vehicles will start with small proportions of bio-fuels ; 100% bio-fuel vehicles in 6 months.

Though I praise Mr. Gadkari for the many consumer & environmental friendly steps, but such diktats make me worried.

[saikarthik]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

I just wonder if six months notice is enough for manufacturers to design, develop and test the new technology and launch flex engines. But six months timeline is too unreal. Or did I read it wrong? Is it that the mandate will be announced in next six months?

In my experience, it takes 6 months just to modify existing software, do calibration on performance and others, test. In case there is change in hardware, we can forget it (again unless it's plug and play, already in use in that OEM).

Quite possible on your second point, announcement in 6 months.

Originally Posted by drivingmelody

Why this urgency to move away from fossil fuels?. There was a planned transition to start using Electric vehicles in the next few years. Now there is a strong push for 100% ethanol vehicles.

Recently I read about sugarcane minimum procurement price was increased. And in our country we get ethanol from cane instead of corn like South America. So is there some coinciding interests to cash in before EVs occupy roads?

P.S - Sugarcane is a cash crop which uses more water, so getting ethanol from it is stressing already water stressed areas.

[CARDEEP]

Biofuels are welcome
However, they should not harp on those for cheap fuel for 2 reasons.
One fuel is costly & will get costlier in future because it's perishable fossil fuels. Biofuels can only supplement the quantity in a set mix, not replace it, till alternative technology (s) are brought in place. Again new technologies will be costly & reliability will be unknown. Automakers need to speed up on Fuel Cells (cleanest & most democratic option IMO).
Second, fuel is costly in India because of taxes & oilcos profit margins. While taxes are undoubtedly high, but they are directly linked to cost of governance, it's the profit margins of Oilcos that are more killing. All of Govt Controlled oilcos are actually making post tax profits to the tune of 10-20%. This can be higher if these companies actually tighten belts. Simply reducing profits by 10% can do the trick. But, guess the bureaucracy is quite professional here.

Coming to biofuels, these are in fact a देर आए दुरुस्त आए solution as we are one of biggest manufacturer of sugar & it's byproduct - molasses (also used in distilleries for liquor production) along with wonder seeds like jathropha are the ones that can help here. There are makers like - Ford & Renault that have vehicles that can run on alternate fuels. There ought to be other manufacturers vehicles that are compliant with biofuels. Hopefully the long dark tunnel of fuel pricing is lit in few alleys.

[RedTerrano]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

I just wonder if six months notice is enough for manufacturers to design, develop and test the new technology and launch flex engines.

Originally Posted by drivingmelody

Why this urgency to move away from fossil fuels?.

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

In last few years we have seen many such orders. 100% EVs from 2030; forget 100% EVs from 2030, go for fuel efficient vehicles ; Bi-fuel vehicles will start with small proportions of bio-fuels ; 100% bio-fuel vehicles in 6 months.

I don't think it's (only) 6 months.
This was also known in March 2021 (at a minimum)
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...x-engines.html (Government wants carmakers to produce flex engines)