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View Poll Results: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT today?
Yes 294 40.33%
No 435 59.67%
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Old 1st September 2021, 14:09   #1
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Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-2020hyundaicreta08.jpg

VW-Skoda have struggled with the reliability of their dual-clutch ATs in India, so has Ford, so have Hyundai-Kia. The trouble is, when they work, dual-clutch ATs are darn good, fast & smooth. What's more, with many cars, you simply don't have an option. E.g. If you want a Compass Petrol AT, it's the DCT only. Octavia? DSG only. Creta or Taigun in the fully-loaded trim with their most powerful engine? DCT. Despite the complexity, cost & lack of reliability, manufacturers stay loyal to the dual-clutch AT by launching new models with this gearbox.

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT despite the very real possibility of issues & breakdowns?

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-dsg-2.jpeg

Pros
  • Lightning fast upshifts!
  • Can withstand high amounts of power and torque
  • DCTs can be quite fuel-efficient, when compared with torque-converter ATs
  • Shifts are very smooth

Cons
  • Unreliable nature. Chances of failure are very high
  • Repairs are stupendously expensive
  • Propensity to heat up in city traffic
  • Can get jerky in bumper to bumper traffic between 1st - 3rd gears

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-20210126_153455.jpg

Some of the most prominent cars with dual-clutch ATs (there are more)



Hyundai
  • Creta
  • Venue
  • Verna
  • i20

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-2020hyundaicreta04.jpg

Kia
  • Sonet
  • Seltos

Skoda
  • Kushaq
  • Octavia
  • Superb

Volkswagen
  • T-Roc
  • Tiguan AllSpace
  • Taigun

MG
  • Hector

Jeep
  • Compass

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-download.jpg

Reliability concerns with dual-clutch gearboxes



Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-dsg-4.jpeg

Here's a small sample of BHPians who've had issues with dual-clutch ATs. Search the forum and you'll find hundreds more! Back in 2013, Volkswagen recalled 1.6 million cars globally for issues with the notorious DQ200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
I have been having a DCT issue for past few weeks. My car had this for three times in the past one month. The gear ratio gets stuck in D2 without upshifting when in normal mode. Initially, it failed to shift at all. For the last couple of times D2 shifts to D4 after revving to 3.5k RPM. Does not go through D3. Shifts back to D2 from D4 on slowing down. Does not shift down to D1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Thanks to Naveen Kumar for sending this video in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Naveen writes:

My Kia Seltos gets stuck in the 2nd gear and then directly upshifts to the 4th gear. This has happened twice in past month. Similarly, while downshifting too, it goes directly to D2 from D4 and skips D3. The car doesn't go into D1 at all. Restarting the car appears to fix the issue temporarily. I'm attaching a video of the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Recently, I found that the car loses power and shifts late and erratically. It also refuses to go above 90-100kmph. Got it checked from Skoda and was told its a mechatronic failure. Im told it costs upwards of a Lakh to procure from the company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala59 View Post
My friend got a VW Polo GT TSI in 2013 and has been facing a lot of problems, especially with the clutch. Here is his post on Volkswagen's Facebook page:

In October 2015, the car had travelled a mere 6500 km and I had to replace the multi clutch (ironically, of an automatic car) because the car was making a screeching sound while changing gears and also jerked randomly at times.

I had the multi clutch replaced under warranty with no cost and was assured that this would not repeat again. However, within 6 months of the replacement, I had the same problem again. Just two days back, I took my car to the Shaman dealership (Sewri, South Mumbai) and now that the car is not under warranty, I am being charged exorbitantly high prices for job work : Rs. 1150 for scanning and some other crap, Rs. 4000 to open up the gear box and an estimate of Rs, 1,17,000 to change the multi clutch and flywheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadnaik View Post
Against all odds, I trusted that Volkswagen must have sorted out the gearbox issues that plagued the DQ200 DSG Dry Dual Clutch.

There are 3 major issues with the car - and all 3 issues do not happen regularly. Sometimes they occur, sometimes they don't.

Issue 1)
The car jerks within gear randomly. The jerks can happen up to 4 times - and are the most frequent in the 4th gear and the 7th gear, but it has happened in other gears as well. Often it happens when climbing a slope, and also when the car is full of people. This jerk is not the same as the usual single jerk of a gear change. That single jerk of gear change on hard acceleration is expected - but this jerks within the same gear.

Issue 2)
The car has been jerking when downshifting from D3 to D2. This also happens sometimes, and not always. This particular issue has been there ever since I've purchased the car, but I had assumed it was a problem with all DSG gearboxes. I researched online and found out that many people had this problem, so I ignored this one.

Issue 3)
This is the most troubling of all the problems, and this is what made me really worried. This issue has only happened once. I was driving the car in "D" mode. when suddenly, the car went out of gear! The engine continued revving, but the car stopped moving forward. Only the rev counter was shooting up to 6000 RPM, but it felt as though the car was in neutral. The gear indicator still showed "D2" but the car kept slowing down with no power going to the wheels. Then I switched to "S" but the car still had no power. Please note that the engine was still on, and the car was still revving. Finally I had to stop, and take it to the side, switch to "P" mode, and switch it back to "D" after which the car was fine.

The above issue number 3 has only happened once, but is very serious since it occurred while I was driving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agbenny View Post
Every Venue DCT, that runs in bumper to bumper traffic for 20-25 mins will show this overheat warning, and yesterday faced nasty jerks that lead the entire family to panic mode.

By God’s grace, we got a small area to park aside for 10 mins, and the warning message went off, but we do not want to face a situation again after spending 13.5 L.
Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-dsg-5.jpeg

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrol_power View Post
Mine is a 2015 November registered Polo GT TSI and my extended/ add-on warranty expired on 2020 November. And last week my car stalled while running. And the diagnosis is gearbox failure and mechatronics failure. Total estimate is 201,280/-.

Initially, the dealer said a lot of rust is accumulated in the gearbox and it has crumbled down and said that mine is flood affected car, as that’s the only way rusting can happen in inside parts. I assured that it is not flood affected and he can confirm it with the service history.

In fact, I have been getting symptoms of my gearbox failure since the last 2 years (ie when the car turned 3). There was a lag in movement when I shift the gear from P to N to D, it wont move for 5 to 10 seconds, which increased to upto 1 minute. This was random occurrence which finally became a routine one, but service centre said that since the error is not showing when they scan it, VW is not supporting changing the gearbox.
BHPian Dhruv29 purchased his Tiguan Allspace in November 2020 with 5 years extended warranty. In March 2021, after covering just 9,000 km, there was a strange knocking noise from the engine along with sluggish acceleration. The car was taken to the service centre, and even after 3 days, the issue was not fixed.

In June 2021, the issues returned and the car was sent to the service centre again. Volkswagen engineers opened the gearbox and recalibrated the Mechatronics unit. The problem could not be replicated immediately after the fix. However, the issue returned the very next day during a 250 km drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post
Odometer Reading: 9150
I had to travel outstation to attend some family function. After travelling approximately 110km, suddenly the car made 3-4 quick knock noise from right side of engine compartment. I ignored it thinking that it was probably noise from passing traffic.
After a few minutes again, when accelerating from 5th gear in D mode at around 1300 RPM, same knock/rattle noise occurred in quick succession as if there is some slack in timing chain or engine is lugging.
The engine would cut power for 1 second then again would be back online.
It’s as if traction control was cutting power. The knock sound emanated from right side of engine bay whereas DSG box is on the left side.
In return journey, same issue occurred intermittently, whenever i tried to apply power to overtake and the engine would get in turbo range and then it would knock and power would cut.
Acceleration would be sluggish and jerky from 5th gear onwards with knock/cut episodes. Then it started to happen with 3/4/5/6th gear, the car would not want to put down power in turbo range.
It’ll steadily rise to cruising speed but would cut when turbo is making more boost while accelerating.
I then had to baby the car back home at a steady 50-60kmph without any overtaking manoeuvre.
Mid way back, i had to stop for 30 min. After the break, the car behaved completely normally.
There are no warning on instrument cluster whatsoever, and vehicle status shows green tick.
Things to note:
- From first day onwards, the car would make metallic rattle noise when coasting through bumps without any throttle input from gearbox side. I showed it to A.S.S, it was deemed as normal DSG noise.
- Today, after the fiasco the same noise has increased. Now it comes even with light throttle input in 1-2 gear in bumps. Which wasn’t the case before. As if something is loose inside gearbox and when more throttle is applied it goes away.
- Gearshifts are now felt more noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viraat13 View Post
The biggest issue I've had is the fact that VW changed their warranty policy sometime in early 2020, which meant that I was unable to renew my warranty beyond 9th June 2020. Prior to the warranty expiring I visited VW for a peculiar noise coming from the transmission. My concerns were dismissed and I was assured that my GB would be good for a long long time. This was around the 46K mark. At 52K, I had my first bit of trouble, where the car refused to slot into 1,3,5,7 and limped back home. Dhruvritzed helped me diagnose the issue as he had recently (at the time) dealt with the same thing, and he advised that I should just scan/clear the codes and hope for the best as it would mean that the transmission will work for a while more. At 58K, in April 2021 the transmission finally gave up. Since, I have got a full service history, and the service centre staff knows of my many attempts to get warranty, they assured me that they would try and get the best possible goodwill support from VW.

Unfortunately their best possible has only been up to 30%, so the cost of clutch pack + flywheel is coming to 100K approx.
Viraat13 changed the clutch pack of his DQ200 on his own. Related Thread

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-dsg-6.jpeg

Last edited by Rehaan : 1st September 2021 at 15:56.
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Old 1st September 2021, 14:09   #2
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Voted Yes. Recently got a Superb L&K home. Reasons:

• Mentally prepared for 1 failure within the extended warranty (6 years) and 1 after that. We usually sell the car at the 10-year mark, so will effectively have to pay for 1 repair, but be inconvenienced twice. Just hope it gives up in the city and not on the damn highway .

• This is the improved wet-clutch 7-speed DQ381 DSG which is *supposedly* more reliable than the heartbreaker DQ200.

• Lack of options in the segment. The other shortlisted cars were more expensive by either 10 lakhs (Camry) or 20 lakhs (C-Class).

• My brother's very low running. He will probably drive the car 5000 km / year tops.

• No running in heavy traffic. Primarily nights, weekends and the open road. 60% of the car's current odometer reading has been on the highway.

Really sucks that we sometimes have to end up with an option we know will give us trouble, but as a wise man once said, there is no such thing as a "perfect car". I'd rather have a breakdown every 5 years than drive a boring engine / gearbox for 10 years. That said, I would pick a competent torque-converter AT over a DCT 10 out of 10 times.

Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?-9b.jpg

Last edited by GTO : 1st September 2021 at 14:31.
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Old 1st September 2021, 14:30   #3
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted No. All the pros of a DCT couldn't make me buy one. I specifically avoided DCT (DSG) when buying a car 4 years ago. I was not mentally and financially prepared for that dreaded gearbox failure. I am happy with a Torque Converter AT.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:06   #4
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Quoting my own post from this other thread-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-...-variant.html# (Automatic Crossover: Kia Sonet topmost variant vs Skoda Kushaq entry variant?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYP View Post
I'd avoid the Sonet purely because it has a dry clutch DCT. I was earlier of the opinion that only the DQ200 is to be avoided but after reading multiple reports of DCT failures of the Hyundai-Kia group, I'd avoid any dry clutch DCT. At least the mass market ones.
My current stance is pretty much the same. I'll avoid any mass market dry clutch DCT but I won't mind going for a wet clutch DCT. At least from what I have seen, the failure rate of wet clutch DCTs like the DQ250 for example, hasn't been too high or too different when compared to an equivalent Torque converter or a CVT.

Voted yes, though there is a caveat.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:10   #5
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted NO, i would be happier with a competent torque converter and not worry about the imminent failure. BMW's ZF 8 speed is an excellent gearbox with no reliability concerns and recently when we were buying the Creta, we opted for the smooth 6 speed TC+diesel combo since the car would spend a lot of time in city traffic and that would put more strain on the gearbox.

As an enthusiast, i might put the car in NEUTRAL at traffic lights to save the gearbox but i do not expect the same level of mechanical empathy from my wife or sister.

Gearbox like DQ200 are best avoided since there are a lot of failures reported and getting goodwill warranty really depends on your luck. Even KIA/HYUNDAI have had actuator failures with their DCT's, no such issues with the 6 speed auto.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:11   #6
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

It all really depends on what my other options are. If I can spend similar amount of money and get the ZF torque converter AT or something likewise - I could consider it. But if the other cars that are in consideration are AMT, CVT, slow torque converters, I am okay to sacrifice 10-15 day downtime on the car over a time of 5-10 years to have it repaired.

In fact, the joy this gearbox brings to driving (every single time!!) is unmatched typically in the any lower price ranged AT cars !
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:15   #7
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted NO.

Infact DSG is one of the primary reasons(apart from cramped rear space) I didn't get the 2019 polo GT TSI. Had the current 1.0 TSI TC box been released back then, that would have been my choice mostly.

Last edited by SoumenD : 1st September 2021 at 15:17.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:34   #8
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted Yes.

Have the beautiful DSG Vento for company, now for ~6 years. Have lot of pleasant memories to go back to!
And yes, this DSG is the dreaded DQ200 I am talking about
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:40   #9
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted NO

DSG was the only reason I picked a Verna (TC AT) over the Vento (1.2 TSI). I would have definitely bought the 1.0 TSI TC AT if I had to buy a car today.

Yes even Hyundai's are reporting many issues these days but don't really have the heart to buy something which you know for sure is bound to fail.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:43   #10
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted No.
I loved the VW DSG, infact I was a big fan of the Polo GT TSI with the quick shifting DSG, but with all the reliability issues I have read, I would rather stick to a good Torque Convertor.
This was one of the reasons why I choose the Ford Ecosport Automatic with the Torque Convertor over AMTs of Nexon and XUV300.
And once I sell off my Ecosport now, my next car in the future will be a Torque Convertor Automatic. Wish Maruti Suzuki could have added atleast a 5 speed Torque Convertor AT in the S-Cross.

But just in case, DCT is the only option on a car that I absolutely love, I will go ahead, if it is a wet clutch DCT.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:44   #11
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted NO.
Most of the DSG/DCT combos are with good engines.
They are without a doubt butter smooth and very addictive to drive. I’ve owned an A4 2.0 TDI and fell in love with it simply because of the quick and responsive shifts.
But having heard stories of the infamous DQ200 failures and service issues, I would atleast think twice before signing the cheque for my next car with DCT.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:53   #12
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

In one sentence, Our traffic conditions are brutal for dual clutch AT, does not matter robust they are.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:57   #13
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted NO.

But to clarify, I will go to extreme lengths to try and avoid this including marginally altering vehicle format, budget etc. If there is absolutely no choice all things considered I may still take a calculated risk. But given the number of choices generally available in the market, is is less likely that I will have no choice but to pick DCT.

I really value reliability and don’t have the mind space to deal with extraordinary reliability issues but fun to drive factor is definitely important to me. Which is why I would try my best to find the best balance elsewhere instead of taking the risk unless its simply NOT working out otherwise.
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:58   #14
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted Yes

- Had 2 DSGs back to back (GT TSI and Vento TDI)
- In my opinion what is often overlooked on these gearboxes is the position of the gear called Neutral. Use it more (traffic standstills etc) and this transmission will serve you well
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Old 1st September 2021, 15:59   #15
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Re: Would you buy a dual-clutch AT car today, despite the serious reliability concerns?

Voted No.

My work leaves me with very little free time. I want to maximize the value I derive from this free time. The last thing I want to do is spend time chasing up service centres and worrying about car breakdowns. This is precisely why I sold a C Segment Skoda and opted for a D Segment Honda (with the reliable CVT in the already mature 10th generation car). I was happy to extend my budget but couldn't find a sedan under 40 lacs that was as reliable as the Civic. I am also fundamentally opposed to paying the India-specific premium for German luxury cars.

On the other hand, I have a family member who runs a business. He also works very hard, but he has people who can take care of the follow-up for him. In his situation, he can afford to take the risk / and has taken the risk of going the DCT/DSG way.

Even if someone wants to go the DCT/DSG way, I'd recommend Skoda/VW/Ford/Jeep. Atleast, they offer goodwill replacements. Best of luck with Hyundai.
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