[sri]

Originally Posted by goldie_malhotra

BTW, on the Quality and NHC front, please take a look at the below survey
ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends, how makes compare 4/07

The most reliable car of the second-most reliable car-maker is the Fit, on which NHC is based.

Its more than just hearsay. I believe that the idea that "Honda's quality/reliability is only hearsay" is itself hearsay for many.

Goldie, excellent report. Honda at 2 and Suzuki at 26, no wonder in US you see so many toyotas and hondas. This report corelates very well with the sales figures.

Now talking about NHC v/s Sx4. In india the first question a potential car buyer asks is whats the FE?

If Sx4 gives same FE as NHC, i belive NHC will be almost out.

If Sx4 gives 1 kmpl less than NHC, then it will be fine balance with a good fight between each other

If Sx4 gives 2 kmpl (or more) lesser than NHC, Sx4(petrol) will be only for a small group of enthusiast.

----
Sx4 (diesel) will kill NHC in india......no doubt.
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Quality/Reliability cannot be achieved by a model launch or by giving a great ***. It will be b'cos of a company's philosophy and cannot be built overnight. It will take atleast a decade.

Honda and Toyota are right up there.

[sids911]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Guys, if we are doing a comparo between NHC and SX4, then it should be done in a fair and unbiased manner like what Bijoy @ BS Motoring did here (Top Story - SX4 the City - Business Standard Motoring)

But, here the thread initator & some others seems to be biased towards SX4 and infact ridiculing Honda City and its owners too!

Yes. I started the thread and I agree that I am biased. Infact, only after reading the above report, I wanted to start this thread.

There is a reason why I am biased. Its nothing to do with Honda City Owners. And i havent ridiculed them in any case. They simply didnt have a choice.

Its about Honda. Its their arrogance. NHC is a prime example of that. They think they can dish anything and Indians would take it as a gift from god!

Appreciating quality is another thing and blind faith is another.

I am pretty sure that you dint go blindly for palio just because it was a "FIAT". It was the product which was genuinly good. NOT blind faith.

[goldie_malhotra]

Originally Posted by sids911

There is a reason why I am biased. Its nothing to do with Honda City Owners. And i havent ridiculed them in any case. They simply didnt have a choice.

Oh yeah - it was practically forced down our throats. In my case, they kidnapped my poor Santro, and demanded that I swap it for an NHC.

Originally Posted by sids911

Its about Honda. Its their arrogance. NHC is a prime example of that. They think they can dish anything and Indians would take it as a gift from god!

Appreciating quality is another thing and blind faith is another.

Frankly, I am quite pissed off with Merc myself - fancy pricing a C-class at twice the price compared to Civic or an Accord.

[ranc]

I second sids911 , after all he is from Indore and I should, well I am just joking. I feel the Honda City is a pretty stupid car it lacks in power big time, everytime I have driven it I feel I am driving an Indigo or a Indica it just refuses to move. There is no point taking away driving pleasure of a car just because one wants to improve on FE (which also I am not very sure if it offers a good FE because the feedback that I have is different). The interiors look pretty dated too, the a.s.s sucks and is very expensive, recently my friend banged his city on a road divider and ended up paying close to 3 Lakhs for repairs. All this to me makes it look like a white elephant. I hope (and know) that the same is not true for a SX4, it looks macho, the trims offered are wonderfull and we all know about the a.s.s, its just that with time it will prove itself on the FE part.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by ranc

I second sids911 , after all he is from Indore and I should, well I am just joking. I feel the Honda City is a pretty stupid car it lacks in power big time, everytime I have driven it I feel I am driving an Indigo or a Indica it just refuses to move.

Are you talking about the iDSI ?
I found it quite peppy to drive in city. Infact, driveability is quite good. Its only when overtaking (specially in highways) and under load (a/c w 5 people) it runs out of breath. But no way can it be compared to Indica D!

[vasudeva]

Inspite of NHC's virtues (and they are many but some peeves for me include road noise), it seems that NHC is sliding and could slide further for the next few months because of hype around new SX4. No matter what, Indians seem to have a lot of trust in Maruti, and SX4 should definitely have some good demand in the next few months. After that, no one knows.

As for NHC, it is seeing a slide and is now down to around 3000 per month. Significantly, the mid-sise segment has also declined from 16723 in Apr 06 to 14329 in Apr 07. We should compare month with month, since March is always a high month. Thus, 150074 units were sold in Mar 07, but 94771 in Apr 06, and 105962 in Apr 07. NHC's share in mid size is down from 24% in 4/06 to 20% in 4/07.

It may be a month or two before the impact of SX4 on NHC/Verna/Fiesta/Aveo can be judged.

[BUSA]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Can't quite agree... Its because of the fact that Civic isnt assembled locally there... its imported and hence not really modified to suit local conditions.

If thats the case, then the tyres and alloys should be 16, they are the same as the Indian spec.

[f50xj13]

have owned both suzuki and honda cars...here is my take on the issue..
Honda NHC:
Pros : FE, quality of equipment levels, professionalism of company with regards to customer service-dealer issues when escalated to honda., not exactly value for money but decent package allround.
Cons: No safety addons, lesser equipments compared to similarly priced cars, interiors tho good quality, targeted for ppl in 30's and above.

Suzuki SXi:
Pros : New eagerly awaited car, fresh new design, high equipment levels, safety addons available.
Cons : FE is suspect, maruti dealerships are pathetic and escalating to company is like escalating to government, positioning with respect to baleno is not sure, interiors appeal to young but quality will not be comparable to NHC

am not a die hard honda fan, the esteem and zen till date rank among the best cars i have driven. however having owned two hondas till date, there is one thing why honda is selling. it is because they have catered to the mass appeal. their package has always remained a good one even though they have showed little inclination to change to market trends, they prefer to let a product run its cycle and then introduce new addons. after the nhc zx runs its cycle they will get all addons that it is lacking in ,the most important being safety features.
however the sxi will with all its new features possibly give the nhc a run for its money and if the fe is good then nhc sales WILL be hit, however 5 years down the line my bet is that the city will be with a new design(metal parts) and equipment levels while the SX4 will only be doing cosmetic upgrades and degrading the car value like they did with the esteem and the zen.
which is exactly why the city will still maintain its market share and the sxi if really promoted and upgraded on time can grab that from honda.
(i have no mention of ford, hyundai, daewoo(i refuse to call chevrolet cars in india anything else) cause these are still not focussing on customers)fiesta can prove me wrong tho))

[GeekSrik]

Originally Posted by f50xj

however the sxi will with all its new features possibly give the nhc a run for its money and if the fe is good then nhc sales WILL be hit, however 5 years down the line my bet is that the city will be with a new design(metal parts) and equipment levels while the SX4 will only be doing cosmetic upgrades and degrading the car value like they did with the esteem and the zen.
which is exactly why the city will still maintain its market share and the sxi if really promoted and upgraded on time can grab that from honda.
(i have no mention of ford, hyundai, daewoo(i refuse to call chevrolet cars in india anything else) cause these are still not focussing on customers)fiesta can prove me wrong tho))

degrading car value? what exactly does that mean friend? how often have other cars upgraded engines in terms of bhp values or anything else? almost every one else i know of have upgraded entire trims or cosmetics only including honda. on the other side honda has a proven engine and need not do the upgrade internally. cosmetics are also quite good.

coming to sx4, atleast for 2-3 yrs this will be a bread and butter model for maruti, and will continue to sell without upgrades. maybe after that another cosmetic upgrade will come up, but the engine would remain the same since its anyways new. a new engine has to be proven for atleast 4-5 yrs to stabilise. honda has that edge. sx4 will perform too i dont see any doubts on that.

ultimately even if honda does give safety features, i think it will be extremely difficult for them to keep price points low like maruti. this will be their biggest challenge if the sx4 does well. (elite feeling is something that we the customers badge honda for!, but that aside in terms of practicality the sx4 is more vfm at the moment)

[sonycs]

Originally Posted by sids911

what sells in India more...Performance or "average kya hai?".

I totally agree with U man...... This is what really sells...whether it's NHC or Fiesta or any other car in the segment. As far as I know we always go for the one that has good looks and good mileage. And to pin point if the mileage is good nothing else really matters. If Logan Diesel gives better average than Fiesta Diesel I am sure we'll see more of logan's on road despite of all the cheap interiors and stuff.

[pogusingh]

Saw RAFTAAR on NDTV, they compared SX4 with CITY. For finishing and interior quality they gave CITY a thums up, for goodies the SX4. But they also said that for ths ZXI model of SX4 they took the fog lamps were not working !!!

[navdeep]

Originally Posted by pogusingh

SX4 they took the fog lamps were not working !!!

Shocking !
How can maruti send such a vehicle for test drive to press. Or they are taking things for granted and assuming SX4 will take over all sales.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by navdeep

Shocking !
How can maruti send such a vehicle for test drive to press. Or they are taking things for granted and assuming SX4 will take over all sales.

Could be a blown fuse or some electrical fault that may have surfaced enroute to the NDTV office or a fault they could not rectify on time in order to meet time commitments to the TV show. Can happen on any car. Dont see a reason why Maruti should be flamed for this. Its not that they would want any negative publicity.

[pogusingh]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Could be a blown fuse or some electrical fault that may have surfaced enroute to the NDTV office or a fault they could not rectify on time in order to meet time commitments to the TV show. Can happen on any car. Dont see a reason why Maruti should be flamed for this. Its not that they would want any negative publicity.

I both agree and disagree. When autocar took the test drive of new Safari dicor, its gear shifting failed.

[navdeep]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Could be a blown fuse or some electrical fault that may have surfaced enroute to the NDTV office or a fault they could not rectify on time in order to meet time commitments to the TV show. Can happen on any car. Dont see a reason why Maruti should be flamed for this. Its not that they would want any negative publicity.

Yes, It could be anything minor but Maruti has to ensure that everything is in place when they are handing over the car to media for test drive ( rather to anyone ). I disagree here.