[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Suzuki did bring in good cars, Kizashi, SCross 1.6, sx4, Baleno sedan etc but these were never “volume sellers” as per Maruti.

Well, Maruti did come up with Nexa for their premium range and rightly put the S Cross there. But they should have also added the Vitara for example, instead of Ignis and Baleno which are sub 10 lac cars in any case. S Cross, Vitara AWD and XL6/7 should have been ideal for Nexa branding.Of course , with the necessary features and technology.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Well, Maruti did come up with Nexa for their premium range and rightly put the S Cross there.

Agreed, but my point is, Indians are not ready to consider Maruti as a premium brand. A swanky showroom with suited executives and fancy ipads simply wont add much value. Maruti is perceived as a company that caters to the "kitna deti hai" population and Maruti very well is concentrating on that.
Even if Maruti does bring in the Vitara, it will be a toned down version with extreme cost cutting, AWD, what's that?

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Agreed, but my point is, Indians are not ready to consider Maruti as a premium brand. A swanky showroom with suited executives and fancy ipads simply wont add much value. Maruti is perceived as a company that caters to the "kitna deti hai" population and Maruti very well is concentrating on that.
Even if Maruti does bring in the Vitara, it will be a toned down version with extreme cost cutting, AWD, what's that?

Exactly what Maruti has been sleeping on ! That is the whole point of this thread.
i) TML has been successfully able to overcome the taxi car image.
ii) MG has had an excellent start despite negative connotations of Chinese origins.
iii)Kia has been able to create a market identity inspite of big brother looming around.
iv) Nissan/Renault appear to be turning a corner with Magnite/Kiger/Triber.
v) Even Mahindra has successfully moved into the urban consumer mindspace with XUV series and the now hard-to-get Thar v2020.

So its not difficult for India's largest manufacturer to turn a new leaf. In fact they have successfully done so in the past by bringing in the sporty Swift (back in 2006). In one leap they moved from the 90s design language of Esteem, Zen to a contemporary form. They are just resting on these laurels now.

[TorqueIndia]

With just a single thread Maruti woke up, this forum is immensely powerful!
Looks like they are pushing Jimny in a hurry. Pricing will be a key point for its success though.

[Venkatesh]

New Maruti launch on cards, Knock knock is it Jimny out there?



Link

[KPR]

MS is suffering from semi conductor shortages. Any new launch and delaying production of vehicle means they are entering a gamble called 'waiting period' aka Mahindra's game.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Perhaps the earlier customer base has outgrown it. So, is Maruti comfortable letting go of that customer base without a fight? They don't want to even try and offer an upgrade to their previous customers?

If the answer to this is Yes, then its not a smart strategy in my opinion. You've already got someone who loves the brand, but you chose to ignore his needs for a better automobile experience. This simply means you're unwilling to move up the value chain and stay relevant for your customers. And then its only a matter of time before you have to play catch up or become irrelevant.

It depends on the economy too. In a developed economy this would be a bit problem given that the ratio or cars to people is 1:1 or even more. However in a country like India, where a large segment of the population still cannot afford a car and has one of the fastest growing middle class populations in the world, new customers for Maruti are still entering this segment faster than the old customers move up the value chain. So the volume and demand is still there. While is why service coverage, costs and service experience still play a huge role in guaranteeing it's numero uno status.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[arjab]

Maruti is least bothered about setting new benchmarks in safety, performance or technology.
They never were at the forefront of bringing the latest in automotive technology to the masses and never will be.
38 years ago India was coming out of the automotive dark ages and Suzuki was the only one allowed to manufacture cars in India, so whatever they did was accepted as manna from heaven.
Yes, Suzuki definitely shaped the Indian automotive components industry and helped embed Japanese manufacturing techniques, particularly process & quality control, but as far as getting cutting edge auto tech to the end consumer was concerned, they did not do so.

Maruti always enjoyed the Government's protection from Day - 1. Our great Government did not allow any other automaker, till the liberalisation policies of the Narasimha Rao Government, to manufacture any other make/model, hence Maruti ruled the roost. Even the import of dies, jigs and machinery & all capital investment required for the manufacturing of the Zen was done at 0% import duty!

Few people know of it, but during the mid to late 80's, Tata, then known as TELCO, was at a very advanced stage with Honda, to manufacture, under license & technology transfer agreement, the Civic & the Accord in India, but it did not get the go ahead from the ministry. In fact, Honda had gone as far ahead as to share all technical drawings and specifications of the Accord, but the deal was forced to be scuppered at the 11th hour. Why? Because the M1000 would've been doomed!

Suzuki, globally, was and certainly not now an automotive force. They do not operate in the United States, the market where quality, safety and performance are key drivers of success. In mainland Europe, Suzuki are fringe players. They have some traction in South Africa and Australia and are fast progressing as a lackey of Toyota Motor Corporation elsewhere. In the next three years, I'm sure Toyota will own majority a stake in Suzuki and possibly float Daihatsu & Suzuki as entry level brands for impoverished countries.

But in India it'll remain supreme. That's because traditionally it had pulled India out of the automotive chasm of the 80's and had given Indians a taste of what contemporary motoring felt like then.
That it did not keep pace with changing times, the relentless progress of automotive technology, will never be judged by us. Also, the myth, that maintaining a Maruti is cheap is no longer true. Have you recently totted up the service cost of a humble Alto at its 20,000kms service? It certainly isn't cheap!

But Maruti will make a comeback. Because fuel prices are soaring and all said and done, the three major engine lines available in the Maruti's of today, viz; the venerable BS-6 compliant F8D and the "K-series" trio of 1-litre,1.2litre and 1.5litre will edge ahead on fuel efficiency when compared to the competition's naturally aspirated powertrains or the forced induction one's.

Yes, Maruti's share can potentially get impacted if consumers place an overwhelming emphasis of safety and electrification, both of which are areas of weaknesses for SMC.

To sum it up, Indian car buyers also need to be a bit more mature.
Basic technical maturity of the larger section of the car buying populace in India is very much lacking, that's not to say that everyone has to be a petrolhead, but a basic sense of awareness about automobile & it's technology is required to hold manufacturers accountable and pose tough questions for them on critical areas of their products.

Till then we have to sit back and twiddle our thumbs.

[Equus]

Value will always be king in India & MSIL will always lead here (especially sub 10 Lakhs).
Tata is on the prowl & very worthy as well but the sub 10 lakh portfolio is not very strong (as yet). Hyundai has successfully migrated to 10+ value bracket - they never sold many Tucson/Elantra before Creta.

[Mach_1590]

Maruti, if continues with the similar attitude, will fall hard and quick. With the rising purchasing power, and improving road infrastructure, the best seller Alto is replaced by Swift/Dzire which again will be replaced by a vehicle in larger segment(where Maruti has little to no brand recall). In the coming years, masses will start giving more emphasis to vehicles with good safety, build quality, technology etc. Without innovation in these fields, they are pretty much dead in the water by the end of this decade. Earlier, Honda did take Indian market for granted with ridiculous pricing and cutting down on basic features and they are paying for that till date. While the market has moved to turbo petrol, 6 speed ATs and DCTs/DSGs, they are still stuck with 4 speed AT in their flagship products. Hyundai/TATA/Mahindra have worked very hard to create brand presence in 10-20 lac segment, they went through multiple failed products before getting one right. Such effort is missing from Maruti's stable.

[Blackmore]

Why some of the assumptions on this thread are wrong on so many levels

OR

Why Maruti is doing the right thing to remain successful:

(1) Market’s rejection of good / excellent / extremely competent cars from Maruti:

(a)Kizashi:





A car that was benchmarked against the C Class and improved upon on important parameters such as torsional rigidity, suspension and handling. Its ability to mask speeds was phenomenal and did better than the C class on slalom tests. Maruti had even planned a direct factory contact for each Kizashi customer for resolving issues. However all of that bombed - the Indian market didn’t warm upto such an extremely competent car because it had a Maruti badge.

(b) Grand Vitara:




An extremely reliable and competent off roader. One level above the Gypsy in terms of reliability and those who’ve used a Gypsy would vouch for its reliability. At the time the Grand Vitara was launched it looked good, had enough presence for a SUV and a decent engine albeit a petrol. The Grand Vitara was a failure too.

(c) S Cross 1.6:

Torque that matched an Octavia TDI. A well tuned suspension to put down all that power. An engine that was tried and tested by Fiat. Yet, it didn’t sell. Maruti had to give substantial discounts to clear stock!

(d) Baleno RS:

The first attempt by Maruti at bringing out a performance version of their standard car. A Turbo petrol with adequate performance. Probably not enough tweaks as It would have led to price increases which Maruti very well knew the market would not accept. The Baleno wasn’t a success and was withdrawn from the market.

Four products that were good but didn’t do well. Enough reason for Maruti to realize that the Indian market will not accept expensive / high end products from Maruti. And it’s doing just what it’s learnt from experience - giving the market low cost no frills cars.

(2) The WORLDS LARGEST AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURER rebadges and sells Maruti models - something it does ONLY for the Indian market:

Can there be any better endorsement of Maruti model’s fitness of purpose for sales in the Indian market? The worlds largest vehicle manufacturer rebadges Maruti’s products to sell in the Indian market! Toyota could have easily sold many of its cars but why did it chose Maruti for India? Because it makes market sense. Toyota knows that it’s small cars would be expensive if sold in the Indian market and would be a failure. Reason why Yaris was a failure and pulled out of the market - why give a market something they will not accept?

Toyota doesn’t want to sell cars that are cost tuned for India as it would mean compromise on safety / lower quality of internals (engine / suspension) etc and Toyota would not be able to sell such cars in any other market without damaging its name so it chose to rebadge Maruti Brezza, Maruti Baleno and the Maruti Ciaz. Toyota’s name will not be damaged in the Indian market which has already accepted these cars. In addition, Zero development cost (if one ignores the thinking to come up with a name) makes for a healthier bottom line too.

So why should Maruti change its product portfolio when it’s accepted by the worlds largest manufacturer?

(3) > 40% market share for 40 years

A consistent 40+ % share in a highly complex and unforgiving market does not indicate that one is resting on ones laurels. It indicates an understanding of the market better than most including us.

Should Maruti add features because the rest of the manufacturers do? No, actually the others need to remove features and produce bare bones models to eat into Maruti’s market share and if they want to get a larger share of the Indian market. Which is what Toyota is trying to do.

The basic premise here is that An understanding of the car market = providing features or latest tech on a car. That is what an enthusiast wants - not the vast majority of the Indian car buying public who are the reason for Maruti’s current market share.

The wallet size has increased for (a) the urban elite and (b) the emerging market in the rural areas where the growth in India’s economy has enabled folks to graduate from bicycles to mopeds to bikes and now onto low cost no frill cars.

(4) Failure of Tata and Hyundai:

The ultra competitive Hyundai failed in the small car market and had to discontinue the Eon. Tata set up two factories to manufacture the Nano and still discontinued the Nano. There is obviously something Maruti is doing right which even the biggies can’t seem to replicate.

(5) On the safety of Maruti’s cars:

The majority of Maruti’s customers don’t seem to mind low crash test rating. They would however mind if Maruti increased the price by 1 - 1.5 lakhs and incorporated safety into the Alto with 2 airbags and even a 5 star rating. Maruti knows this too well and gives the customer what he wants. If the customer feels that safety is a required they wouldn’t be buying Maruti’s in droves.

(6) Easy Escalation Matrix:

Try escalating something within Kia or Hyundai. You will not get a reply to your mail. You are not provided with any contact numbers of higher ups. Maruti has numbers of its escalation matrix displayed prominently at every ASS and they are very responsive.

(7) Availability of spares and ASS:

Maruti’s spares and ASS’s are available at most places in the country and you are never far from help or spares should you need one. Another reason for Maruti’s success.

(8) On the lack of features:

As indicated earlier the typical entry level customer in a rural area isn’t looking for a Sunroof or a wireless charger or a 16 speaker Canton music system. He is more than happy with a basic car to upgrade from bike with service and spares nearby. That’s all he wants for now. This market will eventually mature at some point in the future and would look at getting more features in their cars. Maruti knows this and is probably waiting for that market to mature to provide more features in their cars.

(9) Profile of a typical Maruti customer:

The results of this poll are skewed because a large majority of bhpian’s are not Maruti customers. The mind set of a typical Maruti customer is different from the mind set of the urban elite and that is what the polls reflect. The upmarket requirements from a car of an educated customer is different from an illiterate who perceives a car as giving him a lot more than a bike - an air conditioner, power steering, 4 doors to protect him from the elements are what he perceives as value.

Maruti knows that trying to cater to requirements of the urban elite is a pointless exercise and so it probably doesn’t care too much about that market.

Hence while Maruti may not sell what you or I want, it for sure succeeds in selling close to 50% of what the market wants.

And as they say, nothing succeeds like success.

Note: Maruti’s market share has dropped to 33.9% in September 2021 on account of lower production because of the chip shortage. September despatches were about 63000 cars against a monthly average despatch of 100000 cars.

[das_ren_auto]

Originally Posted by Blackmore

(2) The WORLDS LARGEST AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURER rebadges and sells Maruti models - something it does ONLY for the Indian market:

Pardon my ignorance. I was under the impression that VW is the world's largest vehicle manufacturer and Toyota is number two.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Blackmore

Why some of the assumptions on this thread are wrong on so many levels

Why the coloured lens analysis of Suzuki India's brilliance is nonsensical:

Originally Posted by Blackmore

(1) Market’s rejection of good / excellent / extremely competent cars from Maruti:

(a)Kizashi:
Indian market didn’t warm upto such an extremely competent car because it had a Maruti badge.

The Kizashi wasn't just rejected by India, it was an international FLOP and had a short lifespan of 3-4 years.

While simply outdoing a C class on a salom test does not make the Kizashi a better car. It's like saying hey the Tata Winger is better than an innova as it offers more space!

It came with no engine options apart from a petrol 2.4 engine. It was a good car but lacked the wow factor. Neither did it provide a much more attractive price tag vis a vis far more established models like the Accord, Camry, Sonata etc..

Kizashi was rejected by even suzuki's home market Japan as well, go figure.

Originally Posted by Blackmore

(b) Grand Vitara:

An extremely reliable and competent off roader. One level above the Gypsy in terms of reliability and those who’ve used a Gypsy would vouch for its reliability. At the time the Grand Vitara was launched it looked good, had enough presence for a SUV and a decent engine albeit a petrol. The Grand Vitara was a failure too.

Because when launched it came without a diesel engine a strict no-no for the Indian market. Plus would you buy a petrol Vitara over a CRV?

Originally Posted by Blackmore

(c) S Cross 1.6:

(d) Baleno RS:

Because while these products look good from Maruti's perspective, a prospective buyer has better options. Plus one of the biggest gripes with Maruti's line up is how mundane their cars look and tacky interiors they have. Perhaps the upcoming re-launches ie. new top hats on existing platforms, Baleno, Brezza etc... will come with more enticing designs

Originally Posted by Blackmore

Four products that were good but didn’t do well. Enough reason for Maruti to realize that the Indian market will not accept expensive / high end products from Maruti.

Wrong realization, what they should have learnt is 'Ok, we need to do better not blame the market'!

Originally Posted by Blackmore

(2) The WORLDS LARGEST AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURER rebadges and sells Maruti models - something it does ONLY for the Indian market:
Can there be any better endorsement of Maruti model’s fitness of purpose for sales in the Indian market?

So why should Maruti change its product portfolio when it’s accepted by the worlds largest manufacturer?

It's an endorsement when they re-badge maruti's and sell them in developed markets, Toyota will never do that knowing fully well these cars arent good enough.

Originally Posted by Blackmore

(5) On the safety of Maruti’s cars:

The majority of Maruti’s customers don’t seem to mind low crash test rating. They would however mind if Maruti increased the price by 1 - 1.5 lakhs and incorporated safety into the Alto with 2 airbags and even a 5 star rating. Maruti knows this too well and gives the customer what he wants. If the customer feels that safety is a required they wouldn’t be buying Maruti’s in droves.

It's nonsensical to say a stronger structure costs 1.5 lacs, where is your proof?

Originally Posted by Blackmore

Note: Maruti’s market share has dropped to 33.9% in September 2021 on account of lower production because of the chip shortage. September despatches were about 63000 cars against a monthly average despatch of 100000 cars.

The chip shortage has had an effect on every manufacturer's production not just Maruti.

[BoneCollector]

As per a Tweet by Autocar India, Maruti is readying flex fuel engines for India and would be seen on an existing model in future. I don't know if Maruti is actually sleeping on this aspect but the kind of push being given to flex fuel by Mr. Nitin Gadkari, I feel Maruti has some trick up it's sleeve. But overall, Maruti is sleeping when it comes to launching it's world class products.

[rajk15]

An insider tells me that that there were 2 launches scheduled for 2020 and two for 2021 but were postponed due to COVID. Although he did not share which cars.
Maybe they fear not getting strong sales due to the pandemic and want people to be financially and emotionally (from the loss of loved ones) stable?

The person also says that they are serious about the market and the same can be seen by the fact that they are building two new offices in India.

Really hope that they make these new cars safe as well. *fingers crossed*