[KingKong]

I believe that the days for Maruti at the top are over. Hyundai and Kia rule the higher end segment, and as Indian's get richer cars above 10 lakh will start selling at higher numbers.

Their interior quality has also become worse and they have stopped selling diesels, all will hurt them.

When a brand's USP is that its products are the best priced with the best service a person who can afford more will choose to look elsewhere. Most large cities (Mumbai, Delhi, Bengaluru, Chennai) don't see as many Maruti's as they once did. This will transfer to the tier 2 and tier 3 cities in the future.

Maruti has not yet launched electric vehicles, which are the future fuel. TATA Motors dominates electric vehicles and unless Maruti launches an electric car, they will be wiped out in 10-15 years.

Hopefully this doesn't happen and MSIL improves their quality and launches more vehicles as they did make some great cars (Zen, Baleno Sedan, 1st Gen Alto, Gypsy).

PS. This is my personal opinion, no offence meant to any Maruti owners or fans.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by YD14

Forget about the current generation, even people in their 40s or 50s now want more tech, bling and premium interiors.... the showroom where a SA can sell a car ... people also check out cars on YouTube and in videos premium interiors makes the impression.

Totally agree. I am one of those who are in the early 50s, and I myself found keeping the Android auto navigation on even when visiting towns that I know like the back of my hand as it frees up my mind. There's no need to keep a mental note to take a right turn 0.5 km down the street when the Google lady presumably younger than the wifie is often ill-advising you.

The YouTube effect is also correct. I am now finalizing a buy decision for the Creta SX O and the SA has actually asked me, "sir, haven't you seen it in YT?" while explaining the car's light off-road (supposedly) capabilities.

Ref the core topic of this thread, MUL/MSIL has a chequered history when it comes to technically more capable cars than those in its "template". The S-Cross 1.6 DDiS, the Kizhashi and the Grand Vitara. For a lot of its owners, the Android Auto is more than enough for high-tech. I know at least one Baleno guy who has found relief in the crash test "performance" of the KIA Seltos. And as far as Kerala (my state) is concerned, where 2/3 of the population wants govt jobs so that a pension is guaranteed, the resale value is Amen.

[SmartCat]

Let me take the other side:

1) Maruti is a giant in India sure. But parent Suzuki is tiny when compared to Hyundai/Kia, VW/Skoda & SAIC. Except in Japan & South Asian countries, Suzuki is a struggling manufacturer. One cannot expect Suzuki to refresh their product range, invest in engine technology etc at the same pace as other players.

2) It would seem that Maruti's competitors are launching new products frequently, but that's not the case. Tata launched Altroz because they had nothing in the premium hatchback segment. Maruti always had the Baleno. Hyundai/Kia launched Venue/Sonet, but Maruti always had the Brezza. It would seem that VW group/MG are launching new products in premium SUV segment, but then - they never had any presence in that segment. Maruti always had the S-Cross.

3) Maruti introduced 1.0 litre turbo charged engine in Baleno, but dropped it later. There must have definitely done some cost-benefit analysis here. Remember Ford dropped 1.0 EcoBoost engine from their lineup too. Honda/Toyota don't have a turbo petrol engine either. Regarding sticking to old school 4 speed transmission, I'm a bit surprised. They should have deployed Baleno's CVT in premium (relatively speaking) models like XL6, Ciaz, S-Cross and Brezza.

4) Regarding growth in 20L+ price segment, Maruti will eventually get there with the right models. Like how Maruti upgraded itself from KING of upto 8L price segment to KING of upto 15L price segment. Remember there is no "first mover advantage" in the automobile segment. Maruti can walk-in anytime.

5) Regarding stock price, Maruti is stuck in a broad range for 3 years. But its just a reflection of flat revenues & profits, which is fine. All automobile stocks are in the same boat. The NIFTY AUTO index:



6) As of now, there is no evidence in monthly sales numbers to prove that SAFETY sells. Maruti will make safer cars if there is change in regulations.

[RavenAvi]

Their mantra for the past several years has been - rehash, rehash, rehash, thinner, thinner, thinner.

Innovation and creativity is now gone. Instead of being pro-active with any segment-firsts, they are now following the herds.

See how quickly Tata, Mahindra & others followed up when Hyundai plonked the panoramic sunroof in the new-gen Creta? The 7OO's AX5 variant has it, despite some very glaring other feature omissions. Why? Because Mahindra knows it will sell!

They marketed the heck out of the 1.3L DDiS when they introduced it, but after BS6 they retracted. They had a new 1.5L in-house mill ready, but now it's disappeared (scheduled to be introduced on the new-gen Ertiga which we have been hearing about for eons now).

They took on the might of the Honda City with their Ciaz and dethroned the king of the C2-segment! Despite the shortcomings the Ciaz had/has, it became a big seller.

What they need is a differentiator product which, even though it doesn't sell in thousands, is enough to make people sit up and notice.

The Kizashi was one. The S-Cross 1.6 was another.

Even today, the S-Cross sells and is lauded for it's European-like build quality.

The Vitara could be a game-changer for them, if they decide to give it a run in the 10L-15L segment. Starting price 9.49L and see how it runs into the top sellers list.

It's not like they don't have options. Their badge still sells.

[Black_Star]

Originally Posted by KingKong

I believe that the days for Maruti at the top are over. Hyundai and Kia rule the higher end segment, and as Indian's get richer cars above 10 lakh will start selling at higher numbers.

Their interior quality has also become worse and they have stopped selling diesels, all will hurt them.

When a brand's USP is that its products are the best priced with the best service a person who can afford more will choose to look elsewhere. Most large cities (Mumbai, Delhi, Bengaluru, Chennai) don't see as many Maruti's as they once did. This will transfer to the tier 2 and tier 3 cities in the future.

Maruti has not yet launched electric vehicles, which are the future fuel. TATA Motors dominates electric vehicles and unless Maruti launches an electric car, they will be wiped out in 10-15 years.

Hopefully this doesn't happen and MSIL improves their quality and launches more vehicles as they did make some great cars (Zen, Baleno Sedan, 1st Gen Alto, Gypsy).

I think even Maruti knows this and this is one of the reasons behind the collaboration with Toyota, how both these brands will move forward in the next decade will define them and if they make any mistake they will lose the Indian market. While Toyota's Fortuner and Innova sales are great they know that they cant sustain just on them for one decade.

Maruti needs Toyota's tech and EV to stay in in the top while Toyota needs Maruti's scale of production to stay in the Indian market.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Maruti is a giant in India sure. But parent Suzuki is tiny when compared to Hyundai/Kia, VW/Skoda & SAIC. Except in Japan & South Asian countries, Suzuki is a struggling manufacturer. One cannot expect Suzuki to refresh their product range, invest in engine technology etc at the same pace as other players.

This is the situation for many years. Suzuki shut its operations in the USA, the world's biggest car market some 12 or so years ago. Suzuki is a fringe player in most markets. This is common knowledge. What has been done to mitigate the problem of the tech providers' limitation of a small company?

Tying up with Toyota has yet to bear fruit in terms of a current and up-to-date model. They launched rebadged Suzukis under Toyota, with more on the way.

Nexa has become a joke with all old models dubbed as premium.

It is kind of sad the situation that MS finds itself in. It reminds me of the old lead actors trying to compete with young guns. Sure, the Khans & Kumars are managing, just not MS.

With so much tech in the market, so much flamboyance in the cabin, the need of the hour is to come up with drastic new models.

Given what we know about MS's management, they will take the easy route as behemoths do not react well to change. It may work for MS or it may not work, time will tell.

[chethan.ram]

Fantastic post. Maruti made so many good cars in the past and I used to own their Esteem for 7 years. If I look at the current line up of Maruti, not even a single model excites me. I think they are losing it badly to the competitors. There were rumours about Jimny entering Indian market, that may create interest in few.

[audioholic]

I was pondering over the same thought from a long time. When was the last time Maruti delivered something major? I think they have all the ingredients ready for a slow demise. I dont think it would show up immediately in the sales numbers since there is still a good amount of sales volume that would come out of Tier 2 and 3 cities where their presence is good, and the image of Maruti being reliable and dependable still exists. But in the urban crowd, of all the people who I know who purchased a car in the last one year, they didnt even have a Maruti vehicle in their list of considerations. It was always Hyundai, Tata, Kia and so. I was myself a fan of the offerings from the stable until the last few years and we have had mostly Marutis in the extended family as well. But thats drastically changing. I am sure this is the case with many other families as a generation passes.

Its a difficult situation to overcome, since the consequences arent immediate. Unless they go aggressive in solving the pain points, this will mark a slow death for the brand especially with a diminishing international presence as well.

[shortbread]

I respect the balance brought to the argument by the T-Bhp team, but I would like to politely dis

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Let me take the other side:

1) Maruti is a giant in India sure. But parent Suzuki is tiny when compared to Hyundai/Kia, VW/Skoda & SAIC. Except in Japan & South Asian countries, Suzuki is a struggling manufacturer. One cannot expect Suzuki to refresh their product range, invest in engine technology etc at the same pace as other players.

Both TML and M&M are much smaller passenger car players yet are able to bring in new technologies/platforms etc. ie. despite having a fraction of Maruti's business and negligible to no global presence, the Indian players are making aspirational products.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

2) It would seem that Maruti's competitors are launching new products frequently, but that's not the case. Tata launched Altroz because they had nothing in the premium hatchback segment. Maruti always had the Baleno. Hyundai/Kia launched Venue/Sonet, but Maruti always had the Brezza. It would seem that VW group/MG are launching new products in premium SUV segment, but then - they never had any presence in that segment. Maruti always had the S-Cross.

Maruti has next to no presence in the 10lac+ SUV segment, dominated by the Korean duopoly. Again no presence when moving further upmarket vs the likes of Safari, XUV700 etc..

Originally Posted by SmartCat

4) Regarding growth in 20L+ price segment, Maruti will eventually get there with the right models. Like how Maruti upgraded itself from KING of upto 8L price segment to KING of upto 15L price segment. Remember there is no "first mover advantage" in the automobile segment. Maruti can walk-in anytime.

That's not Maruti moving upmarket, it's simply them catching up with inflation. In regards to 'walk-in at anytime', may I ask with what exactly?

Not a single exciting product in their portfolio apart from the Jiminy (they are STILL studying the market, almost completed a BSc in 'Jiminy India Studies' soon after they will be joining the Masters programme for the same, the following academic year!).

Originally Posted by SmartCat

6) As of now, there is no evidence in monthly sales numbers to prove that SAFETY sells. Maruti will make safer cars if there is change in regulations.

I think safety awareness in definitely increasing, it will be interesting to see when the production bottlenecks disappear, if Maruti will be able to regain it's historic volumes.

[AZT]

Maruti is a dinosaur and the good thing about that is it takes an extinction level event to wipe you out. I'd be confident they'll hold on their market share as sub 10l segment will still rule the roost. The fact that Ciaz is still fighting the more prestigious brand City in the sedan space shows how strong the Maruti brand is.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Remember there is no "first mover advantage" in the automobile segment. Maruti can walk-in anytime.

This is an apt statement, however this applies only to Maruti.

Dzire trumps Indigo and other sub 4m sedans.
Brezza trumps Ecosport and other CSUV's.
Ciaz trumps City, Verna and others.
Baleno trumps i20, Jazz and others.
Ertiga/XL-6 eating through the sales of Innova.
S-Cross trumps Duster, which kicked off the crossover segment. However, Creta,Seltos took the game further.

I have a gut feeling they have something strong going on in the background on hybrid and EV's. They will reveal the ace up the sleeve at a time the others are least expecting them to respond.

On the other hand would people buy a Tata, or German car if Maruti had a 5-star car in their stable? Same with EV's. Would people buy EV's from Tata, if Maruti were playing in the same segment?

[sumeethaldankar]

I just hope Maruti and Toyota are cooking something which will take on the likes of the Hyundai's and Kia's. No way Maruti is going to let go of the market share so easily. We may not have a launch from them since 2019 but aren't we are all passing through a tough phase of the pandemic situation since 2020. I am sure Maruti had to shelve their plans just as we had to shelve ours during this Covid situation. Lets hope for better, safer products from Maruti in 2022. I can't personally wait to see the new Brezza and the Scross versions with better capacity hybrid batteries.

[dsuman]

I was in the market recently for a small car and Swift was a strong contender. In fact I always wanted to own Swift. However TD swayed me away from it. Build was flimsy inside out. So my dream continues.

I enquired about any new launches. To which the SA said his team alone is selling close to 200 cars per month from that showroom. People love Maruti whether they have zero Diesel Engines or their Facelifts look gaudy (Subjective). There is no need to introduce new models . The answer was full of overconfidence. So enthusiasts may be turned off by the same faces inside Maruti Showroom but the majority don't care.

There are people who value premium feel, build quality etc but they are miniscule. So till the time Maruti is selling huge number of cars they will not break the working formula. We may keep discussing and this thread may even garner lots of views but then its Maruti who will be laughing all the way to the Bank.

[Sran]

I am of the opinion that it is we the customers who are overthinking about Maruti and their strategy. They are very clear about their strategy and have never given any signal that they want to change. It is the consumer who is thinking that Maruti will change but in their mind they are clear that they have no reason to.

There are millions of Indians who have yet to buy their first car. They are Maruti's customers. Maruti from their start have not yet launched any unsorted car. Every car of Maruti is very mechanically sound. Their limited engine varieties have been superbly reliable without any major problems. Their gears, clutches, shockers and steerings all have been super reliable. They have an unmatched service experience which sorts out each and every problem with active engagement from the company bosses. This gives a peace of mind to first time buyers. This experience which travels from word to mouth of one new buyer to another assures the buyer who invests a large sum of money for the first time that they will not be bogged down by unnecessary expenses. They are the one who Maruti targets.

Maruti gains nothing by launching new unsorted products which are costly to repair and maintain. If anything it will do is to ruin their brand name and put doubts in cutomers mind who are buying their first car. Very few first time buyers buy a Honda or VW due to perception of costly parts and maintainence. I have owned cars both Indian and foreign and when it came down to having only one car in my garage, I chose Maruti instead of Honda city because Honda's service is pathetic in my city and I am now not so enthusiastic to own a VW and keep visiting them every quarter for one problem or the other. 3 years back a routine service of Honda would take 2-3 days and if you require any parts to replace then it would a week. Maruti's target customers are those who want hassle free experience.

Suzuki is a tiny player in global market with very limited resources at their disposal and they are in India for a long game because without Indian consumers they will shutdown in a minute. CNG will be their next bet in India and when the time for EV will come they will deliver.

[adkrish22290]

Maruti today, with the help of their conservative management, is slowly, but surely going in the same direction HM and Premier did way back in the 1990s, when the Indian automobile industry was opened up.

They still feel that a car will sell as long as its fuel-efficient and easy and inexpensive to maintain. Safety? They are least bothered about that, in fact their chairman Mr. R. C. Bhargava has openly said that a two-wheeler owner graduating to a car won't care much about safety. Turbo-petrol? They will still provide the 10+ year old K10/12/15 engine on multiple models. To them, a 1L turbo-petrol engine is of a "smaller size with lesser torque". This has been said by Mr. C. V. Raman, Senior Executive Director of Maruti Suzuki. New technologies? Who cares about that, as long as the cars are fuel-efficient. They will still sell the 4-speed Torque Converter automatic transmission on their flagship cars (Ciaz, XL6, S-Cross) even in 2021.

No diesel? I can cut Maruti some slack here, diesel is indeed losing popularity world over and even in India and with cities such as Delhi restricting diesel car usage, it doesn't make much sense to continue investing in diesel in the long term. But then, is Maruti focusing on alternate technology, such as EV? Nope, not at all. In fact, they have openly dismissed EVs.

Quality of top end models? Who cares about that, Marutis are fuel-efficient and inexpensive to own and maintain. Moreover, they save cost by sharing the parts and quality with lower-end Marutis.

Maruti has a partnership with Toyota which they should use to their advantage, by introducing better technologies, engines and transmissions and improving overall quality in their cars. But do they do that? No. Instead, they just let Toyota to rebadge their cars and sell them as Toyotas.

Even their showroom experience, after-sales and service is not so good as it was in the past. And they cannot claim to provide inexpensive cost of ownership as before (though it is still on the lower side).

If Maruti continues with this attitude, I don't expect them to remain in another couple of years. There will be threads in TeamBHP in the future with RIP Maruti as well as Maruti-related nostalgia, the way Maruti Suzuki is behaving.