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Old 8th October 2021, 06:13   #121
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I think it's hilarious that we're sitting and criticising a company that has managed to hold 50+% of market share for over 2 decades in the face of better funded international competition with better tech.

Maruti sells nearly 20% more cars in India than VW, BMW, and Mercedes do in Germany, combined! Germany is a larger car market than India.

The next largest car market in the world, after India at #5, is Brazil. Again, Maruti sells nearly 20% more than the top 3 selling Brazilian manufacturers, combined!

Hell, Toyota barely sells 20% more cars in China than Maruti does in India, and the Chinese market is nearly 8x larger!
Source

The sheer scale of dominance that Maruti has in the Indian market is something the others can only dream of. Hyundai has had 25 years in India and isn't even a third of Maruti's size yet, despite having a more eager and enabled international parent 400%!
Spot On. My father will still buy Maruti without thinking a second. When I bought my Tiago, my father said why would I buy a Tata and my father in law told - cars bought by Taxi wala.

Only thing that baffles above logic is Nokia. 2.5 crore phones to none. A market leader who was 15 above the next competitor.

I feel the end is nearing if they won’t wake up. In 5 years, you would be seeing Koreans, Tata and Maruti selling around the same number.

I did my maths, if I drive 2000 Kms per month, diesel is still profitable and I can break even in less than 4 year. A commercial car would start making profits in 1 to 2 year then. Why move away from Diesel, not even thinking of safety rating and EVs too. But they are making fuel efficient Cars people would still buy them.
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Old 8th October 2021, 07:15   #122
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

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Originally Posted by Ananthang View Post
Spot On. My father will still buy Maruti without thinking a second. When I bought my Tiago, my father said why would I buy a Tata and my father in law told - cars bought by Taxi wala.

Only thing that baffles above logic is Nokia. 2.5 crore phones to none. A market leader who was 15 above the next competitor.

I feel the end is nearing if they won’t wake up. In 5 years, you would be seeing Koreans, Tata and Maruti selling around the same number.

I did my maths, if I drive 2000 Kms per month, diesel is still profitable and I can break even in less than 4 year. A commercial car would start making profits in 1 to 2 year then. Why move away from Diesel, not even thinking of safety rating and EVs too. But they are making fuel efficient Cars people would still buy them.
I think the next decade in the auto industry will be very different from the past. In this decade, I expect to see mass adoption of EVs and PHEVs /strong hybrids; autonomous driving /ADAS will increasingly be the norm; industry will have brand new players who specialise in these technologies (Ola, Mi etc). We also have a Chinese onslaught on the cards.

In such an environment, what has worked in the past will certainly not be sufficient in future. It will no longer be sufficient that your car is merely an incremental update over the past model. A foundation and system needs to be built that can generate whole new power trains, advanced driving aids etc. All this will be R&D heavy.

What concerns me is that Maruti is not seriously building and investing in R&D to meet this new age. They don't have a massive parent to bank on. No strategic alliances to bring in much needed technologies (no the Toyota alliance doesn't cut it).

They are not even taking baby steps by trying out implementation of these technologies on their current line-up. Where is the electrified wagonR for instance? It only tells me that they are very far behind in their technical development.

Unless they make drastic changes, I think Maruti will slowly fade away into irrelevance
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Old 8th October 2021, 07:30   #123
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Here's another, easy to fix trend that has been missed by Maruti...one even your neighbourhood accessory store can manage in 3 hours. Fancy audio systems with subwoofers are all the rage today. But no Maruti still offers sound quality that truly impresses, does it? How difficult is this now? I recently test-drove an upcoming car with 6 speakers that offered very nice SQ. But I don't remember any Maruti coming close.

Is it that hard to select the right speakers & ICE? Or will we remain obsessed with 200-rupee speakers?
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Old 8th October 2021, 08:11   #124
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Is it that hard to select the right speakers & ICE? Or will we remain obsessed with 200-rupee speakers?
When Maruti is on the look out for the vendor who can supply it at ₹199, how can better speakers and ICE happen? They should offer it with their so called premium variants at least.

Isn't that in their DNA - cost and volumes. Unless they come out of that brassbound thinking, we can't expect any change. Times have changed and people are ready to shell out more for cars, even more for gizmos. This has still not struck with the powers that be at Maruti. As someone pointed out in this forum before, even after seeing Mahindra making windfall with 3 door Thar, Maruti is still pondering whether the 3 door Jimny would give enough volumes and instead contemplating(or finalized?) a 5 door one

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsjey View Post
there is no real benefit in competing with the likes of Kia, Tata in terms of features, safety and luxury.
Tata and safety in one sentence is accepted. What's Kia doing there?

Last edited by Bibendum90949 : 8th October 2021 at 08:28.
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Old 8th October 2021, 08:22   #125
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
. Fancy audio systems with subwoofers are all the rage today. But no Maruti still offers sound quality that truly impresses, does it?
Slightly OT.

Many in my friend and family circle bought new cars in the past 2-3 years. Few others are actively scouting for a new one. Having spoken to them, none of them talked about the sound quality, even the ones who bought a Tata. Sunroofs, touchscreens, yes; woofers or great bass from their JBL, no.

Maybe a majority of the general public still doesn't look for a great sound quality and that speaks in Maruti's favour.
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Old 8th October 2021, 08:24   #126
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

While the points made already are valid, here are some that are missing:

1. Maruti's strength is a pervasive presence across every nook and corner of India. This is what helps it sell cars.
2. Reliability and fuss free ownership. Beyond affordability, Maruti offers peace of mind.
3. Who is there to challenge Maruti today? Hyundai is a distant second. Tata has a long uphill climb to reach within striking distance.

New products excites auto enthusiasts. But clearly market is saying things differently. Market wants, Affordability, Reliability and then Availability as the key.

People in this forum worry about safety. The new upwardly mobile people care two hoots about safety. They want a Maruti period. This is a big segment.

And lastly, Maruti can afford to be the follower in India. I'd say that Maruti is doing a good job at maximizing gains to its stakeholders. However, as an auto enthusiast I'm disappointed with their strategy. But since they don't have any challengers, there is no real benefit in competing with the likes of Kia, Tata in terms of features, safety and luxury.

Regards,
lsjey
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Old 8th October 2021, 08:52   #127
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Good thread.

I think most of our frustration comes out primarily due to the connect we have with this brand. Most of us would have owned a Maruti in the past and the fact that the brand made cara affordable to us makes us feel bad when they lose market share to other companies.

But, let’s accept it.

This is a capitalist economy. Good product wlll/should sell. If these folks can’t wake up, I don’t think out frustration in this forum will change them. I have owned 4 Marutis so far. But none in my garage now.

Guess it is time to accept new realities and Move on.
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Old 8th October 2021, 09:50   #128
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

My dad owns both A swift ZDI 2015 and Grand I10 1.2 Sportz 2019. The moment he switches from Swift to Grand i10 he would always say the quality of the car is brilliant, yet would also talk about it’s poor mileage for a petrol. However he’s sure that he won’t even consider buying a maruti anytime ever in the future.
As long as the pulse of the market won’t shift Maruti’s will keep on selling. At present apart from Mileage and brand value I don’t see Maruti having any USP in it’s products.
The perceived notion of Maruti being cheap is a lie, at present the top model of Maruti suzuki swift costs around 9.5 lakhs on road.
However Maruti shouldn’t worry because customers like mentioned below will never allow the sales to come down-:
My uncle owned a 15 year old Wagonr and he replaced it with a New wagonr because he thinks every other company will leave India and has come to loot customers. He thinks what are we going to do with a safe car. My uncle is in his 40’s yet the mentality hasn’t changed.
Maruti has understood this mentality very well hence even though as a market leader I would want it to bring innovation at pace, it will continue to do what’s best for it.

Last edited by Oomph11 : 8th October 2021 at 09:53.
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Old 8th October 2021, 11:37   #129
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

All the poins discussed here is not at all a concern for a person who is upgrading from a two wheeler to a car. I think that is Maruti's strength, they are good at the basics and not trying anything fancy. They are trying to keep things under control rather trying something new. For other players they have to try something new to penetrate into the market and it might not be applicable to Maruti at this situation. But when market demands things has to defenitely change for Maruti too..

In terms of Safety, I personally belive safer cars are not the ultimate solution. We need safe drivers than safe cars, and lot more things needs to be changed before demading safer cars from the manufacturers.
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Old 8th October 2021, 11:46   #130
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

It's not that bad actually, if you think from the prespective of new car buyers at large. At every price point, in every vehicle type they are present in, it is really hard to ignore Maruti offeringe. Either they give you 90% of the most "modern" car in the segment at 80% price, or they have an offering that is one segment above the one you look for at the same price range.

For the price of I20, you get a full size Ciaz - terrific VFM. Or a Baleno at substantially lesser price. And many of their cars are actually equally unsafe compared to a lot of others. "Tin can" is a perception. A panaromic sunroof on an unsafe car is even worse thing to have.

Consider this - the most important bits about buying decision for general public:

1. Decent engine - Check. MS petrol engines are extremely smooth, have good low end torque and fuel efficient too. As easy as it can get to drive within the city and competent on highways.

2. Reliability - do I need to say anything?

3. Ease of ownership - same as above. Excellent service and reach, reasonable price

I can add a lot more. But the summary is - Their USP is delivering a VFM car with long term fuss freee ownership experience and a good resale value too. Beat that!

And some of their cars are actually very good - S-Cross, Brezza, Ciaz, XL6. I think they will continue to rule Indian market till the time (eventually) Toyota absorbs them.

P.S. I do not own any Maruti Car.
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Old 8th October 2021, 11:50   #131
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Does Maruti REALLY want to change any of what it has been doing for the past so many years?
Does it care about what the market pundits expect it to do, or does it care about what it it thinks is the right thing to do from a business point of view?

It seems like a no-brainer that Maruti does not have any ambition atleast in the near future to "move up the value chain" in terms of selling cars >15 lakh.
Their ethos and the entire business model + value chain is totally sold on the fact that a very small percentage of the Indian diaspora buys cars >4 meters.
And if that means not churning out new models or new trends, so be it.

Here's what Chairman Bhargava is saying in their FY21 annual report:-

Quote:
The per capita income in India is only about US$ 2,000, about 5% of that in Europe and Japan. This reduces the ability of a large number of people to buy expensive cars. As a result, not only do two-wheelers sell in large numbers, but 77% of cars sold are less than 4 metres in length and lower in cost. No other developed country has such a high sale of small cars. Unfortunately the technology presently available leads to electric cars being produced at a cost much higher than the conventional cars. This, along with the lack of charging infrastructure makes it very difficult to sell electric cars to people who can only afford small cars. Only 5% of cars sold in India are priced at Rs.15 lakh or more. Some of the buyers of such cars can buy electric cars but the market penetration of EVs would be very small.
And their widely published business model, the words "Affordable Price" scream at you:-

Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trends?-screenshot-20211008-11.36.30-am.png

Source

Unfortunately (for me as a customer), Maruti's dominance doesn't seem to get eroded in the near term by some of its better (read: better car engineering) competitors.

Last edited by JoshMachine : 8th October 2021 at 11:53.
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Old 8th October 2021, 12:19   #132
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Here is an interesting article on the profitability of Hyundai and Maruti

Quote:
Higher operating leverage, better management of raw material cost and lower other expenses helped Hyundai improve its profitability. Consequently, the operating profit per vehicle of the Hyundai reached Rs 72,471 in FY21, which was nearly double of what Maruti Suzuki achieved.

Hyundai Motor India’s premiumisation strategy has been delivering better returns as the average realisation of Hyundai cars stood at Rs 7.06 lakh a car. For Maruti, this was Rs 4.56 lakh.


Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...campaign=cppst
The negative impact of the current Maruti strategy will playout in the coming years

Cheers

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Old 8th October 2021, 12:36   #133
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I recently test-drove an upcoming car with 6 speakers that offered very nice SQ. But I don't remember any Maruti coming close.
Prospective Tata Punch buyers take note

With that said, I never knew factory ICE systems were a big deal. It probably is the last thing on my mind if I am buying a car. Likely because I can always fix that particular problem later, whenever. What I can't fix is cost cut fit and finish, rattles and ageing engine/GB.
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Old 8th October 2021, 12:38   #134
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
- Selling terribly outdated technologies. E.g. same old 1.2L K-Series (no turbo-petrol).
And the 1.4 K-Series abroad comes with a Turbo. How difficult is it for them to do that locally on the entire K-Series range.

Quote:
- No BS6 diesel on sale. 2/3rds of Creta sales are still from the diesel.
Why they can't make the 1.5 DDis BS6 Compliant still baffles me.

Quote:
- Tata is selling two affordable "proper" EVs. Meanwhile, Maruti keeps harping about its smart-hybrid tech which offers marginal benefits at best. Is Maruti ready for an electrified future?
Tata is really doing a great job with the Nexon EV.

Quote:
- Maruti has always been lazy with new tech & trends. They didn't have MPFI ready and were banned in Delhi when BS1 came (Hyundai Santro was on sale though).
Forget complicated stuff. They can't even make the headlights go off or give an alarm when you turn off the ignition.

Quote:
- A simple missed trend that even your neighbourhood accessory store can manage. Fancy audio systems with subwoofers are all the rage today. But no Maruti still offers sound quality that truly impresses, does it? How difficult is this now?
Maruti is not the only culprit here. Look at BMW. The lower end vehicles like the X1 come with really crappy music systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
There was a time when everyone's first car was a Maruti, including mine
I'm one of the few who's first car was not a Maruti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
What is still working for Maruti in my view is their network both sales and service. They still cover India like no others have done but that is an advantage that is getting chipped away slowly.
If your car is reliable, you just need to visit the ASS once a year or 15K Kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
The >12 lac segment still needs a diesel as its dominated by SUV/MPV and that is Maruti's achilles heel.
True. They need to get that 1.5 DDiS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
Maruti introduced 1.0 litre turbo charged engine in Baleno, but dropped it later. There must have definitely done some cost-benefit analysis here.
If they had decided to manufacture it locally, cost would not be a problem.

Quote:
They should have deployed Baleno's CVT in premium (relatively speaking) models like XL6, Ciaz, S-Cross and Brezza.
The Baleno CVT or any CVT for that matter is far from premium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
They had a new 1.5L in-house mill ready, but now it's disappeared (scheduled to be introduced on the new-gen Ertiga which we have been hearing about for eons now).
Because this mill never progressed from BS6 Ready tp BS6 Compliant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
3. Cheap service costs and good fuel efficiency
Not anymore.
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Old 8th October 2021, 12:46   #135
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Re: Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trend

Forget the latest Gadgets and Gizmos. Maruti is the only brand in our market which doesn't offer crucial safety features like 6 airbags( Not even 4),TPMS etc and the most annoying thing is that the former is available in their euro spec models. Is it too challenging to get them to our market?
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