[Benoit]

Originally Posted by ArTigor

how would it be if Tata at least gets the rights to Fords current engines being produced in India, especially the Petrol ones as current Tata NA Petrol engine is really a weak point.

Well, i think it's not as simple as it would seem. This would mandate changes in the architecture and involve massive testing in terms of effort and time. Also it would be a structural change,and GNCAP ratings would be invalid.

Tata also has 3 versions of the 3 pot petrol engine( NA, iturbo, Nexon spec turbo). Tata would need to test the NA version of ford along with what it could offer for the equivalent of the 2 turbo versions.

All this and what can tata claim? Better tech engines from the company that didn't sell well(and left)? That would be a really bad business idea. All they could do is, probably learn some tweaks from them and use it in their own. But i am sure they are very well knowledgeable now. Look at the way they have tuned the punch. That weak 1.2L now could get to Sandakphu and VW polo 1.5D couldn't. The weak 1.2L 3 pot is a deliberate move for reasons we do not know.

[dragracer567]

IMHO there is more to Tata's consideration of acquiring the Chennai plant then meets the eye, I think its more than just expansion of their capacity. Its likely that Tata either wants to be closer to the supplier base many of whom are in Tamil Nadu or MK Stalin probably brokered a deal that Tata just couldn't refuse. It is also likely that the Sanad plant is already earmarked for someone else (MG perhaps?), so the Chennai plant is probably the only one available for Tata to purchase.

As many members pointed out, overcapacity is an issue that plagues all manufacturers except Maruti & Kia, so it remains to be seen how rational this decision is (are there any other Tata products on the pipeline after the Punch?). The TN government is incentivized because if this does go forward, it will be a really boost the popularity of the present TN government as they would effectively be preventing job losses both in the factory as well as the wider supplier base, a lot of it is politics in the end.

[ScorpioYadav]

Even though it is not right to comment on speculations, however if this does happen, the mind simply cannot help but go back to the treatment meted by Mr. Ford to Mr. Tata in 1999 & life coming a full circle twice for Tatas !!

What goes around comes around.
Karma is a you know what.

[Mortis]

With regards to overcapacity I feel the main strategy is to bring down wait times in order to make cars available to customers sooner. Wait time for popular cars are crazy long, semiconductor shortage notwithstanding and a shorter wait time to get a Tata car instead of their first choice from another manufacturer could lead to more sales for Tata from those customers who are on the fence.

[Dry Ice]

Where is Mahindra when it’s time for a meaningful acquisition?

Seriously given the backlog with Mahindra, they are probably the ones who need an extra plant (or 2).

It would be interesting to see what TML will do with it. Lots of theories at this point but only time will tell how will this help them in the long run.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Seriously given the backlog with Mahindra, they are probably the ones who need an extra plant (or 2).

It would be interesting to see what TML will do with it. Lots of theories at this point but....

Let me add one more theory. TML will contract manufacture the Thar for Mahindra.

[motorworks]

Another article on the Internet talks about Tata potentially having access to manufacturing Ecosport and Endeavour if they take over Ford’s plants! Sounds a little far fetched, but I’m thinking Tata needs some incentive to take over Ford’s plants and the incentive can only be aspects like being able to access ford’s petrol and Diesel engines, models like the Endevaour and Ecosport, which can add on to Tata’s portfolio.

On the flip side, The Ecosport is a bit old now, and Tata has their own version in Nexon, and the Endeavour isn’t really a volume car. And ford’s regular non-turbo petrol engine isn’t really that very different from what Tata has already, so these things may be part of the deal if it happens, but may not be decisive in Tata’s ultimate decision.

[Mannu]

I was just going through some articles on Tata Motors and suddenly saw this old news article about Tata buying Ford India plants.
So, just out of curiosity was thinking do any of our esteemed birdies have some info about this deal going through or was it just an initial expression of interest which later on faded.

[r-a-s]

Tamil Nadu government wants Tata Motors to consider taking over Ford plant.
On Wednesday, a high-level delegation led by Tata Motors’ Managing Director Girish Wagh met Chief Minister MK Stalin at the Secretariat and held discussions on the company’s future plans in the state.

Source: https://www.deccanherald.com/busines...p-1061142.html

[TusharK]

Foreign brands in line to acquire Ford's Tamil Nadu plant

According to the industries minister of the state of Tamil Nadu, foreign carmakers are interested in acquiring Ford's manufacturing facility.



Without revealing the names, Thangam Thennarasu, industries minister of Tamil Nadu, stated that the talks were in an early stage and that eventually, Ford will have to take a call as it will be a commercial arrangement.

The minister also confirmed that the Tata Group was also interested in acquiring the factory. He added that company representatives had paid a visit to the plant for a preliminary study.

Ford has two manufacturing units in India with a combined production capacity of 4,40,000 units. The company is winding down its operations at the Sanand plant this quarter, followed by the Tamil Nadu facility.

Source: Reuters

[daspranab]

Originally Posted by Benoit

Well, i think it's not as simple as it would seem. This would mandate changes in the architecture and involve massive testing in terms of effort and time. Also it would be a structural change,and GNCAP ratings would be invalid.

Tata also has 3 versions of the 3 pot petrol engine( NA, iturbo, Nexon spec turbo). Tata would need to test the NA version of ford along with what it could offer for the equivalent of the 2 turbo versions.

All this and what can tata claim? Better tech engines from the company that didn't sell well(and left)? That would be a really bad business idea. All they could do is, probably learn some tweaks from them and use it in their own. But i am sure they are very well knowledgeable now. Look at the way they have tuned the punch. That weak 1.2L now could get to Sandakphu and VW polo 1.5D couldn't. The weak 1.2L 3 pot is a deliberate move for reasons we do not know.

That was quite revealing that petrol Punch achieved that diesel Polo couldn't: would you please add some reference to elaborate?

[Benoit]

Sorry for going off-topic.

Originally Posted by daspranab

That was quite revealing that petrol Punch achieved that diesel Polo couldn't: would you please add some reference to elaborate?

Tata did a promotional video displaying the capabilities of the Punch.

YouTube link

Evo India took the Polo to the same place, but after a particular spot, they could not take it further.

YouTube link

This was shared by a fellow bhpian on a related thread. That's where i learnt this.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by TusharK

According to the industries minister of the state of Tamil Nadu, foreign carmakers are interested in acquiring Ford's manufacturing facility.

Its going to be MG or another Chinese firm, isn't it?

None of the Japanese or Korean or European car makers have the appetite. Tata don't have a presence in India's Detroit but do they really need so much additional capacity?

Unless we have a twist in the tale, it's going to be smart business by this foreign automaker in picking up a fully operational plant for pennies on the dollar. Much better than building one afresh or buying a mothballed one.

[volkman10]

Tata Motors set to take over Ford’s Sanand plant.

It remains to be seen whether Tata Motors will enjoy the exceptional incentives and benefits it had been given at the time of starting the Nano plant at Sanand for the new plant it is set to acquire. A decision will be taken on whether the company will get added benefits or same that were extended to Ford India.

Link

[arjab]

Originally Posted by Benoit

Sorry for going off-topic.

Tata did a promotional video displaying the capabilities of the Punch. YouTube link

The Punch did not make it to Sandakphu top. It went till Gairibas,(the flat piece of land shown in the video), which is around 5kms before Sandakphu. Not to be underestimated at all, as travelling till Gairibas in a front wheel drive vehicle is quite an achievement by itself. The last 5kms to Sandakphu top, let's put it this way - is pure "traction, torque and ground clearance" stretch. In a front wheel drive, with the weight transfer shifting towards the rear, the steeper you climb, makes the front end go lighter and lighter and you end up with inadequate tractive force. In this scenario, if you have a four wheel drive or a powerful rear wheel drive with copious amounts of torque and tractive ability, you can make it to Sandakphu top.

Does Tata want to "F8B"-ise their 1.2Litre, 3-cylinder petrol powering their small car range? Maybe! To the uninitiated, the "Suzuki F8B" is the original 3-cylinder, petrol engine which found its way under the bonnet of the first Maruti - 800 in carburettored form way back in 1983.
Maruti and Suzuki tuned it and tuned it and tuned it and that venerable engine mutated itself more than the COVID virus and is still running strong in the present day ALTO 800 in BS-6 format! From BS-0 to BS-6 that's quite a commendable run!
Tata seems to be following this path: from the gravelly noted, horribly jerky, ill-mapped "tip-in/tip-out" fuel delivery characteristics of the first gen 1.2L Tiago unit( i own one so i know ), the naturally aspirated 1.2L in today's BS-6 Tiago is much improved in low down power delivery and smoothness. Unpleasant vibrations have been suppressed by some clever engineering and the engine map tweaked to deliver a far linear throttle response. The fuel map is completely new.

Tata has also deployed the turbo charged version of this engine in the Nexon petrol and Altroz turbo. A four cylinder turbocharged, 1500cc version of this engine will soon see light of day powering the bigger Tata models.

The advantage of this engine is the low development costs due to the indirect injection + turbocharging format. Also it is relatively low revving hence most of the engine componentry is under much less stress and is performing at a lower maximum operational threshold. Also it has proved to be a rather consistent workhorse and reported user failures of this 1.2L , three cylinder petrol are rare.
Remains to be seen, whether Tata wants to develop this engine further by implementing variable valve timing etc. It's not impossible to do it!