[navdeep]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Can you back this up with proof or state why it was a squib? Because last I had a word with the GM (M&S) there weren't that happy that the baleno was being phased out. Because its sales were really fabulous.

Mr Jadish Khattar revealed on CNBC TV18 interview after the launch of SX4. Personally I don't know either Mr. Jagdish nor any of his GM. So I cannot present any written or AV proofs.

And I have personally seen the numbers that were being sold on his computer, and those that were in the list to be delivered. That said there is no baleno in stock in any of the showrooms in bangalore I am told. Maybe that ought to tell something. Stocks emptying that soon. Only goes to show the popularity of the car. Here and amongst general public too.

Look out for various archive issue of auto mag and auto websites and sales thread of TBHP. Please donot demand proofs from them.

As much as these slogans sound good to ears and make an interesting reading I suggest you back your claims with necessary proofs. I have accepted the Pro's & Con's of baleno. So I would be the last person to argue with this point.

Slogan !! is it ? Come on not again ( proofs).. How about asking you with the same ?

One last question, have you driven the baleno extensively before shooting off such comments?

Yes...

With honda making such ugly looking cars (NHC, new CRV) where else do you think honda fan club will show their frustration on ?

why not poll maruti (Swift, SX4) vs honda(NHC/CRV/Accord) for good looking machines ?
SX4 threads on TBHP reveals that there are appreciable number of users who donot like SX4 looks wise and same goes for Swift. Please use search to find proofs.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by navdeep

Mr Jadish Khattar revealed on CNBC TV18 interview after the launch of SX4. Personally I don't know either Mr. Jagdish nor any of his GM. So I cannot present any written or AV proofs.

Look out for various archive issue of auto mag and auto websites and sales thread of TBHP. Please donot demand proofs from them.

why not poll maruti (Swift, SX4) vs honda(NHC/CRV/Accord) for good looking machines ?
SX4 threads on TBHP reveals that there are appreciable number of users who donot like SX4 looks wise and same goes for Swift. Please use search to find proofs.

That is quite funny for him to say so. Anyways, if he says so. Though, I would take my own call.

I for one wouldn't take the word of the auto mags for granted. Nor would most here knowing how knowledgeble they are. Do search for the threads on the forum for proof. And you dont see many baleno's for sale (atleast here) because all of us are satisfied with it and dont see a point to sell it at all. And I dont need a proof of that. Maybe you should look around.

Boss, I am no fan of the looks of the SX4 either. And the last comment was meant in a jovial way. If you haven't noticed the smilie. Or do you need proof of that too?

I guess we are way OT here, dont know how people gain joy in mentioning baleno and SX4 in the same breath or take chances at taking a dig at MUL.

[unigen]

First, auto mag reviews are conducted by people like us (with a bit more experience perhaps) who may/may not have a bias and their own prejudices/preferences while conducting the tests. So one needs to see the cars for themselves. Everyone has their own opinions. IMHO it would be safer to accept opinions from the more experienced and knowledgeable folks amongst us.

Suzuki has never been known for 'high-quality' stuff, be it bikes or cars. They've been around the longest so they probably have an edge over most other manufacturers in terms of market knowledge. So they won't be leaving anytime soon. Honda on the other hand has always brought in balanced models. Honda is always priced a bit more than their competitors. And why not? Have you seen the amount of ugly plastic in the latest Maruti models?

I'm not a fan of either brand, but the differences are obvious. Honda has brought in some excellent models. This would be another great addition I'm sure.

[RX135]

It is not the first time that Honda has competition.

If we strain our memory little, not too long back, we had almost every thread in "What car?" ending up recommending Verna. Verna CRDi was supposed to be trounce Vtec as well. It is now doing well at respectable numbers, but very little to dethrone NHC from leadership position.

Fiesta TDCi, on the other hand has been surprise package, though very little credit was given (on T-BHP) to measly 68 bhp Ford TDCi engine against existing 81 bhp Accent CRDi. It was supposed to be refined but sluggish engine good for nothing similar to Ford Escort.

For almost 6 months till Logan was launched, every thread for 5L-6L car stopped at Logan. Poor thing didn't even outlive initial hype.

There is lot of hype around SX4, which will die down soon. There was similar hype around Estillo and Swift, both of which are doing well but in entry level segments, where customer is much more conscious. Hopefully, SX4 will not repeat Baleno in terms of sales. It will do well and for that it has to undercut into Fiesta, Verna, NHC territory. Now, it depends which pie does it cut into, though it wants to take on NHC directly.

C+ segment is relatively more brand conscious and it will be difficult for Maruti to sell based on just VFM factor. Honda is trying to undermine that factor as well with this latest move.

I would rather keep my fingers crossed and enjoy the dog fight

[The Wolf]

I think its too early to be penning down SX4's future. Will you guys let the damn car run a few thousand kms??? Let all the jazz fade, then when the real mettle is exposed, yes its time to talk.

MUL has mastered the art of producing simple, reliable cars and offering them at affordable prices so its not easy for them to fail in India where the widest band of consumers buying cars in this segment come from vfm and budget buy school of thoughts...

Someone who has the $ to buy a NHC in my opinion will never buy the sx4 for whatever it is unless he has some unsaid affinity towrds maruti.

I have heard reports like bad build quality to bad rear seating to swift like interiors to bad mileage to non appealing external looks etc etc ...now, though this car can be a great alternative to NHC, considering the flip side I doubt if it can genuinely offer what the NHC is offering to consumers today for the extra bucks they have coughed out.

MUL knows that it doesnt matter how many drawbacks the car has, as long as its economical to maintain, Indians will buy and will buy in tons. So, IF by chance the FE is really under 10kmph its in real dangerzone or all else it is safe.

People with money and eye for that soulfull Honda touch will go for NHC while all the others will settle to SX4. MUL has entered this segment for the first time hence even if they sell very few cars they are more or less eating into other cars in this segment... guys like Ford, hyundai and Chevy will get most affected while honda might lose a few in their low prospective buyer band if it would at all...

[Godfather]

What are you talking about.. I completely disagree with you.. The SX4 is completely in a different league and defiately has a lot of VFM compared to what the NHC hs to offer at the same price band..
Maruti as far as i am concerned definately has a winner here..

Honda will have to comeup with somethnig out of the box to bring down the SX4.

Godfather

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Godfather

What are you talking about.. I completely disagree with you..

Godfather

Care to substantiate with some laid down facts??

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Care to substantiate with some laid down facts??

My pleasure.
read as SX4 and NHC
1. SX4 -- 8.4 odd lacs -- NHC -- around the same price
2. 1.6 Twincam -- 1.5 vtec
3. 102 bhp -- 90 Bhp
4. climate control -- N/A
5. 16" Enkei wheels -- N/A
6. controls on steering --N/A
7. Airbags -- N/A
8. Max ground clearence -- Touches every other road bump
9. ABS with EBD -- New variant may have it
10. iCATS protection -- N/A(or maybe free central lock)

Godfather

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

consumers buying cars in this segment come from vfm and budget buy school of thoughts...

I really doubt memo comes from that genre of buyers.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I have heard reports like ...

Don't believe reports, drive it yourself.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

MUL knows that it doesnt matter how many drawbacks the car has, as long as its economical to maintain, Indians will buy and will buy in tons.

Not likely. Remember the Versa? The Logan should be selling tonnes now, by that diktat.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

People with money and eye for that soulfull Honda touch will go for NHC while all the others will settle to SX4.

What soulful Honda touch? The NHC drives like a boring old grandmother. The OHC was soulless on the inside, but it was a real hoot to drive. Honda has lost that edge with the new one. It may have better plastics, but it's just as soulless on the inside, and soulless inside the engine bay too. And this is from a prior Honda owner, who didn't even look at the NHC while picking a new car.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I think its too early to be penning down SX4's future. Will you guys let the damn car run a few thousand kms??? Let all the jazz fade, then when the real mettle is exposed, yes its time to talk.

Very true.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I really doubt memo comes from that genre of buyers..

Forgot my "affinity for maruti thingie"??

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Don't believe reports, drive it yourself..

We havent driven many cars, none of the supercars too but does it stop us from expressing our opinions about them??

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Not likely. Remember the Versa? The Logan should be selling tonnes now, by that diktat..

When did MUL start selling Logan??

Originally Posted by v1p3r

What soulful Honda touch? The NHC drives like a boring old grandmother. The OHC was soulless on the inside, but it was a real hoot to drive. Honda has lost that edge with the new one. It may have better plastics, but it's just as soulless on the inside, and soulless inside the engine bay too. And this is from a prior Honda owner, who didn't even look at the NHC while picking a new car. .

See, there you go with your opinion

Goldie Malhotra should throw some light in this area if you'd like...

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Very true.

Thanks.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Forgot my "affinity for maruti thingie"??

Yeah, he's owned 1 Baleno in the past. And 2 Qualises, 2 Innovas, I think 2 Accents/Vivas (one definitely), one OHC Vtec, and a Getz. So he should be driving a Corolla now, or a Verna atleast.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

When did MUL start selling Logan??

You said as long as it is cheap to buy and maintain, so I brought up the Logan. Anyway, like I was saying, the Versa was a huge flop. I think they sold like 17 or something.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

See, there you go with your opinion

Goldie Malhotra should throw some light in this area if you'd like...

Well, my opinion come from owning OHCs. The only reason the Baleno came along was because the OHC Vtec was not on the market anymore. And we considered even the Accent CRDi, but not the NHC. That should tell you what sort of response the NHC evokes. Tell me, would you buy an NHC?

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

. Tell me, would you buy an NHC?

Personally i prefer the looks of the OHC.. It looked much much better and still has an amazing road presence..and it still manages to turn heads where ever a good modded OHC goes.. atleast i turn and look at it.

Godfather

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Yeah, he's owned 1 Baleno in the past. And 2 Qualises, 2 Innovas, I think 2 Accents/Vivas (one definitely), one OHC Vtec, and a Getz. So he should be driving a Corolla now, or a Verna atleast.

Im flabbergasted.LOL!

Originally Posted by v1p3r

You said as long as it is cheap to buy and maintain, so I brought up the Logan. Anyway, like I was saying, the Versa was a huge flop. I think they sold like 17 or something..

FYI they sold lot lot more than that 17 you have mentioned. Yeah, thats a damn good number for a car like that. If that was sold by another company I wouldve been damn surprised even if one had to get sold!!!

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Well, my opinion come from owning OHCs. The only reason the Baleno came along was because the OHC Vtec was not on the market anymore. And we considered even the Accent CRDi, but not the NHC. That should tell you what sort of response the NHC evokes. Tell me, would you buy an NHC?

Honestly, I wouldnot buy an NHC for myself as Im extremely happy with the OHC vtec, however, we are contemplating buying the NHC vtec at home and I definitely wouldnt mind using it for all purposes involving office, folks and special companions

[navdeep]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

That is quite funny for him to say so. Anyways, if he says so. Though, I would take my own call.

I for one wouldn't take the word of the auto mags for granted. Nor would most here knowing how knowledgeble they are. Do search for the threads on the forum for proof. And you dont see many baleno's for sale (atleast here) because all of us are satisfied with it and dont see a point to sell it at all.

Funny .. are you in jovial mood.
Due to respects to everyone. But TBHP is touching 12600 members and there can be 30-35% ( max ) Baleno owners. Indian market is much more than that. I myself suggested Baleno to many but .. Baleno is a good car inspite of whatever cons people feel. Baleno failed to move because there were more respected brands and priced competitively.

And I dont need a proof of that. Maybe you should look around.

Lol ..

Boss, I am no fan of the looks of the SX4 either. And the last comment was meant in a jovial way. If you haven't noticed the smilie. Or do you need proof of that too?

.. It was a nice joke.

[navdeep]

Originally Posted by RX135

It is not the first time that Honda has competition.

If we strain our memory little, not too long back, we had almost every thread in "What car?" ending up recommending Verna. Verna CRDi was supposed to be trounce Vtec as well. It is now doing well at respectable numbers, but very little to dethrone NHC from leadership position.

Fiesta TDCi, on the other hand has been surprise package, though very little credit was given (on T-BHP) to measly 68 bhp Ford TDCi engine against existing 81 bhp Accent CRDi. It was supposed to be refined but sluggish engine good for nothing similar to Ford Escort.

For almost 6 months till Logan was launched, every thread for 5L-6L car stopped at Logan. Poor thing didn't even outlive initial hype.

There is lot of hype around SX4, which will die down soon. There was similar hype around Estillo and Swift, both of which are doing well but in entry level segments, where customer is much more conscious. Hopefully, SX4 will not repeat Baleno in terms of sales. It will do well and for that it has to undercut into Fiesta, Verna, NHC territory. Now, it depends which pie does it cut into, though it wants to take on NHC directly.

C+ segment is relatively more brand conscious and it will be difficult for Maruti to sell based on just VFM factor. Honda is trying to undermine that factor as well with this latest move.

I would rather keep my fingers crossed and enjoy the dog fight

this is what we usually start doing when we start following a track. I fully agree with you.