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Old 23rd October 2021, 18:22   #46
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

Not competing with Creta/Seltos/Duster shows that Honda aren't too serious about India. Duster came early in the decade. Hyundai took a few years more, but the rest was history after they launched the Creta during the middle of the decade.

If Honda is waking up to an SUV 10 years after the launch of the Duster, surely there is a lack of commitment. I'm sure Honda India is reporting the market conditions on the ground to Japan, but not getting the support and backing.

In the 10 years, Maruti has eaten into Honda's pie by launching the Ciaz and Baleno.
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Old 23rd October 2021, 18:45   #47
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

Honda seems to be getting ready to launch EVs. Look at this news:

Honda reveals its first all-electric SUV with 500km range, plans to launch 10 EVs in next 5 years

500 KM range for SUV? That would be great indeed.

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Old 23rd October 2021, 19:24   #48
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Even though Honda is no longer hot in our market, I rate them on par with Toyota when it comes to providing well engineered and reliable cars.
Funny you say this. In the US, while reliability-wise, Honda and Toyota are considered at par, Honda is widely considered to be a bit more "upscale".

It's unfortunate that in India, Honda lacks Toyota's cachet, but it is fortunate for pre-owned car buyers, who can get used Hondas at a nice bargain.
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Old 24th October 2021, 12:36   #49
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

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Originally Posted by veedub89 View Post
Honda is no position to dominate the Indian market regardless of the car or segment.
Period.

What people love about Honda, or used to love about Honda, no longer applies to Honda.

Gone are your fun-to-drive cars.
Gone are your premium cars.
Gone are your top-notch build quality cars.

There are other manufacturers already operating in the Indian market that can offer products that the market demands. Honda is definitely not one of them.

You couldn't have been more wrong, their new Accord 2.0 Turbos dominate the mid size sedan segment in terms of pure power, features and reliability. Their sports offerings like the Civic Type R is world renowned for performance and beats Golf R's around the best tracks in the world. The build quality is actually top notch on these vehicles even including the Odyssey. Fact is the Indian market has no space for cars like this. No one will buy them, period. There is a massive investment required to setup shop to build these cars, and at this point with some brands coming out with cars only competitive on paper Honda won't stand a chance against the gullible Indian car-buyer in my humble opinion.
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Old 24th October 2021, 19:39   #50
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

My daily driver City turns 10 year old next year and honestly I am surprised that they didn't pull out before. And I feel that their cars are very overpriced and pretty poor in quality, at least for the reputation they have ( or had when we picked up the 3rd gen City).

Few reasons why I think Honda is failing in the Indian market:

1. They simply have lost the wow factor. Back in its prime seeing a newly launched Honda car on the road for the first time was memorable. I still remember the time I saw the newly launched Civic in purple driving slowly, I was a kid back then and I kind of freaked out. I had never seen a car so sleek, so sharp and sporty. With its two exhaust pipes, low and hunkered proportions and that cabin straight from a sci fi film.. there was really nothing like the Civic. It was and still is a gorgeous car IMO, it has aged so well and that interior is still so futuristic even after all these years. Compare that to a Corolla or a Laura of the time and they looked old. The City 3rd gen also made the Sx4 or the previous City look just so old, and it is still IMO a nicely proportioned and cleanly styled car, the best looking City yet. Same thing for the Jazz, although the pricing hurt but the car looked so distinctive and different inside out, really stood out from even the newly launched bloated I20.

2. Since they lost this wow factor now, they don't have the anticipation and the reception to new launched like before. The Civic, CRV, Accord, City launches in the past created a lot of buzz. Now though, I noticed the new City launch when I saw one in person. And maybe looked at it for a moment and didn't give a second glance.

3. They cheapened out, not just the quality but also the market positioning. There was a time when Honda was an upmarket brand and had certain prestige it never has seen elsewhere in the world. City was their cheapest offering but still felt like a global product. Jazz felt so European and though it was overpriced, it felt like it was well screwed together.
All that changed with the Amaze, the brand changed its direction in India and quickly lost whatever brand prestige it had. The dealerships too now feel like Maruti or something, in the late 2000's they felt really premium.

I feel that Honda is finally starting to get it's mojo back with the Honda E globally but for now I feel that Toyota is more " Honda " than Honda itself. Look at the new corolla, CH-RV etc.
IMO Honda needs its passion back, globally. The story and history of the brand is golden and so inspiring and it showed in its products. It felt like it was run by engineers and believed in its slogan, the power of dreams. I believe they have the potential though and expect them to be back globally ( already they are on the track with the Honda E and the new Accord, Civic etc.) but times have changed. Hyundai is now a massive player than before and now not just a cheap knockoff, they are really killing it in design and trying new niches.
And cars are more reliable than ever so Honda's USP is no more a USP, it is more of a standard feature now so they can't bank on this forever.
The Indian division though, I don't care much as I would not buy another Honda again. The ones in the west are simply a world apart in quality and finesse, the ones here are just overpriced Maruti's now IMO.
They ain't dominating anything here, let's face it.

Last edited by Doge : 24th October 2021 at 19:42.
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Old 25th October 2021, 09:37   #51
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

Honda is a global auto giant and they are more than capable of developing India/ Asia specific products in reasonable time to give a tough competition to the Koreans, TATA and Mahindra.
With Honda, its not about product development or lack of R&D and platforms, it about lack of intent.
It is totally mind boggling that a global auto giant like Honda doesn't even have a single product in the crossover SUV segment from 10-18 Lakh, which sees the highest revenues and profits for other brands. That too years after the market has moved from sedans to crossovers/ SUVs. This is nothing new for Honda. From the early 2000s until a few years ago, the market was skewed primarily towards diesels in case of larger sedans and SUVs. Honda woke up extremely late in 2013 with the diesel Amaze. They were even selling the CRV only in petrol in a segment which has hardly any takers for petrol engine even today.

I absolutely do not understand what the folks at Honda management are smoking. Being the earliest entrant in India in 1995, by now being another Asian manufacturer one would have expected them to be a major player in India. Even the earlier image of Honda's quality components, build and interiors has now been diminished post the Amaze.
I would not be surprised if they pack their bags in disgrace like Ford and GM in another 5 years.

Last edited by ishan12 : 25th October 2021 at 09:41.
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Old 25th October 2021, 10:50   #52
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

1) Honda lost the plot because they were penny wise and pound foolish. They can not beat a Maruti by cutting costs. They should have realised this long back.

2) Amaze was a hit when launched, particularly the diesel engine, though unrefined, with its 100 PS power, was best in class and segment leading fuel efficiency and sold like hot cakes. The real culprit which pulled down Honda was Mobilio. The Mobilio design language with that kink in its shoulder line was an anathema for the purists who loved Honda and was antithesis to everything Honda was perceived to stand for till then.

3) The latest Honda City has lost the 'aggressive' design language and looks 'mature' now. Sadly, 'mature' designs appeal only to people over 40 and the ladies. The current Honda City doesn't reflect the nature of an aggressive male in his 30s, who form the big chunk of its target customers.

4) Honda management was short-sighted in pulling down their halo models, trying to make a profit out of every model. The halo models need not generate a profit. They help in selling the next lower model.

Park a Civic next to a shining Accord, and the Civic will look VFM and sell well.
Park a City next to a shining Civic, and the City will look VFM and sell well.
Park an Amaze next to a shining City and the Amaze will sell well.
Park a HRV next to a CRV, and the HRV will sell well.

Isn't this a basic fact? By pulling the plug on CRV and Civic, Honda has literally zero footfalls from High networth individuals who are great market influencers. The trust of th high networth individuals build a premium brand. Honda has lost it completely by stopping CRV and Civic.

Also, CRV and Civic will lead to higher A$S and Accesseries revenue compared to a budget friendly Amaze or City. Honda has sqandered that opportunity too.

5) VAG has ditched the diesel, so no way a petrol-friendly Honda can claw its way back by investing in diesel technology. Honda can still fight its way back into the game by focussing on plug in hybrids. A City or Civic with a battery pack with 50-70 km range plus a 25-30 liter petrol tank which can provide a combined range of 350 odd kilometres on the highways will work wonders. This will mean that very minimal cost of running in the city with the battery and no range anxiety on the highways due to the IC engine.

6) The sales personnel have lost their focus. When I checked in their showroom a few years back to check out the City and the Jazz, the sales advisor tried to sell me an Amaze! Who says you need enemies from outside when you have such sales people!

In a nutshell, Honda should
Bring back the Civic and CRV, may be the Accord too, and aim for more HNI footfalls in its showrooms. Every Accord or CRV running on the roads will boost its brand image which 10 Cities or a 100 Amazes can not.
Launch the HRV.
Upgrade the entire line up above the Amaze with a plug in hybrid tech.
Launch a battery powered Brio.
Stay put for 5 years and it will pay dividends.

Cheers!

Last edited by Geta : 25th October 2021 at 11:16.
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Old 25th October 2021, 13:07   #53
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

Honda was an aspirational brand and commanded a premium, they had cars that people loved to drive. The customers have grown up, Honda remained. Today they have a mighty struggle to catch up. Hope they wake up fast.
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Old 25th October 2021, 14:27   #54
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

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Originally Posted by lsjey View Post
Honda seems to be getting ready to launch EVs. Look at this news:

Honda reveals its first all-electric SUV with 500km range, plans to launch 10 EVs in next 5 years

500 KM range for SUV? That would be great indeed.

Regards,
lsjey
There is no such plan announced by Honda for Asian Market about EVs.
Check their new Global President's Message
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2021/c210423eng.html

They talked about North America, China & Japan in the message but no mention of the Asian Market at all. This message by their Global President clearly shows Honda's priorities.

It seems from this message, Honda considers Asian Market backward (including India) and doesn't have any focus. They just want to milk their money by selling 2-wheelers in Asian Market (the biggest market for Honda, especially India, and Vietnam).

Additionally, Honda is shutting their car manufacturing plants increasingly. Last year, they shut down Honda Cars in Phillipines and this year they shut down Honda Turkey plant. The way they are handling the Indian market, who knows next could be India.

Last edited by fearless_IN : 25th October 2021 at 14:31.
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Old 26th October 2021, 00:12   #55
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

Honda's attitude towards Indian Market can only be explained by one thing. To exit India with minimum losses. It is absolutely unbelievable that Honda don't have SUV products in various categories in the Indian market despite having the flagship HRV in their global portfolio for more than 10 yrs now. In fact Honda has better products for countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh than India. Their preferences are just unexplainable.
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Old 31st October 2021, 23:12   #56
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Default Re: Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

It's funny to talk about how Honda can dominate the crossover segment when one of the world's largest car maker Toyota is taking cars from Maruti Suzuki and putting its badge on them! Toyota is a much bigger company than Honda or Nissan yet it is not doing anything. I don't understand the minds of these Japanese companies. Look at South Koreans: Hyundai tasted success and after 20 years, Kia too came and succeeded. Now even the Chinese have entered and it's only a matter of time they will kick out all the Japanese and give a solid competition to the Koreans.
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