[ron178]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Virtus with 4 airbags has been tested 5 stars by Latin NCAP. The only question mark is regarding the localization done by Skoda VW India in the name of MQB A0 IN.

There are a lot of reassuring statements from Škoda (claims of having internally tested it and claims that they have already sponsored a test with Global NCAP) but I think it is best to wait. Localisation does not necessarily mean that there has been a compromise (could just mean engineered to be made in India) but sometimes even with all the internal testing things could go wrong during the final test. Plus, there is a chance they have changed vendors for the restraint systems, for example Autoliv has now started manufacturing airbag inflators in India (not sure if Škoda uses them but from the claims of heavy localisation it seems likely).

Not to forget, a 5-star score for adult protection is more than just good structure and restraints. For 5 stars even protection to non-critical body regions (knees, tibias, feet) has to be decent or the car risks losing points and falling into the 4-star range.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see test results nearer the market launch, and possibly even before that for the Taigun/Kushaq (the second one is just a gut feeling)

In the Virtus/Polo Latin NCAP test the 3 year-old didn't do exceptionally well in the front dynamic test (6.00 out of 8.00). Its score was helped by the fact that both child dummies scored full marks for side impact protection, and Global NCAP does not assess this for child occupants presently. The margin for 5 stars for child protection in Global NCAP tests is 46.00/49.00 so if it loses points for dynamic testing like the LHD car then 5 stars will be a very narrow stretch. That said the Slavia might get 1.00 point credit for having three-point seatbelts in all forward-facing seating positions, if the belt complies with the relevant UN regulation.

I think that as long as Volkswagen-Škoda continues to recommend a forward-facing restraint for the three year-old, they might have a tough time scoring full marks. Škoda has recommended the same child restraints for the Kushaq as Volkswagen did for the Latin market T-Cross and I will not be surprised if they recommend the same ones for the Slavia too.

Even if it scores similarly to the (Indian) Polo for adult protection but they decide to sponsor the sled test for knee mapping and the car passes it, the score could enter the 5 star range.

In either case I am slightly confused about Škoda's approach to marketing safety. Mr Hollis of Škoda has stopped replying to any queries from Twitter users about NCAP ratings for the Kushaq which just might imply that it is under embargo (this may just be wishful thinking on my part). They seem to offer safety equipment that they don't advertise. We were wondering whether the Kushaq had front pretensioners at all, it turns out it has them not only in the front but also in the rear (according to the new brochure). Then they seem to have safety equipment no one would even notice. Not that I'm complaining. I can't imagine any manufacturer's sales division thinking, "Ooh, i-Size anchorages. Our Indian customers will love those." but they're there nevertheless. (To their credit, some Maruti Suzuki models offer them too).

What rating qualifies as acceptable is the choice of every individual consumer, but personally, I would be disappointed with anything less than 5 stars, including 4 stars for adult protection (which is what GTO's insider source says). There are a number of reasons why I think 4 stars are significantly less impressive than five, the main one being that the side impact performance remains unproven. I would like at least a guarantee that it meets UN regulation for side impact, and anyway Global NCAP sometimes mentions in the press release that the car 'comfortably' passed the regulation which should indicate a good score even if assessed on a sliding scale.

On a lighter note, I can't imagine what the test lab would do if they're in the middle of something like an ESC test and an EPC warning pops up (if, say, they've selected a car that has been manufactured earlier). Thankfully the test lab is in Germany where the 'fuel quality' shouldn't be an issue.

[SidR]

So far I have been in love with the Slavia. I am little skeptical of its safety ratings as of now. If this gets 5 star rating, that would be amazing.

For someone like me who loves both SUVs and sedans equally and looking to upgrade in 2022-23, it would be a really challenge to choose between Slavia 1.5TSI DSG and XUV 700 AX7 AT Petrol. XUV700 would cost around 22.5lac on road and if Slavia top model touches 20l on road, it would really be tough to pick because of ADAS features and that big sunroof in SUV.

Exciting times for prospective buyers. Discounts are going to be limited in 2022 but the new launches are making this year extremely exciting.

[Ma5terVain]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Attachment 2235890

Have said this before too - How close this one is to the original RS formula - the sedan that transformed the Indian market! I'm a crossover person and love the best-of-both-worlds practicality and fun they offer - but the Slavia sure has my attention!

I was hoping Skoda does an RS with the 1.5 TSi motor - but they didn't, but still its almost there (with the Rider, if not the RS!) if the ride and handling formula is spot-on! Even had 16 inch alloys on same size tyres, with a similarly large looking gap in the wheel wells - but no one cared two hoots about back then! We never had tasted such performance before, and welcomed the car with both hands! Although we have options now in other segments, the reality is that the C-sedan segment is as dry as a desert with Toyota even getting ready to launch an 8-year-old car with a fresh badge!

Have been a major critic of the Kushaq, but I feel Skoda has slayed it with the Slavia! Can't wait for the full review - and possibly new Monte Carlo / RS variants in the future.

Attachment 2235891

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While we are at this, I can't help but ogle at how gorgeous the first gen Octavia still looks. The Slavia, in comparison, looks overdone.

[volkman10]

Skoda Slavia and its twin brother from Brazil, the VW Virtus:









Link

[immortalmechano]

Originally Posted by rrk

My understanding is that 3-pot engines vibrate more than 4-pot engines.

New 3-pot car might vibrate less. But as the car ages
1. Will the increase in maintaining 3pot be relatively more than 4-pot? (other than may be need for less engine oil which is linear anyway)
2. Will the stance of Slavia (a sedan) vibrate less than a Kushaq (SUV)

I ask this because my friend had GrandI10 Diesel and about 65+k on the odo, the vibration is pronounced. Not sure if 3-pot + diesel is aging faster

I have a Grandi10 Diesel with 1.5L km on the odo. Other than the idle vibration I don't think it's too bad when driving. I've occasionally had people still say my car is very quiet. I believe new gen 3pot engines are really getting better with newer age manufacturing. But then I've been living with diesels for a long time so what do I know??

[sanhan10]

Hi everyone, Posting in Team bhp after a long time, but have always been lurking in the shadows. The Skoda Slavia has got me excited after a long long time. Was waiting for the Octavia but it has flown out of my budget. Read the excellent review of the car and as usual the pics posted of the car are the most detailed as has always been @ team bhp.
One observation. The Slavia is the sedan version of the 4th gen Fabia launched in Europe recently. The Fabia and Slavia are the exact same B pillar front wards. The dash is very similar and front seats have lumbar support unlike the Slavia. The engines offered in India are offered in the most powerful versions in the Fabia too. The car looks better with lower stance and 17 inchers. And yes - many features missed out on the Slavia are available as an option - including a panoramic sunroof . A drag coefficient of 0.28 puts it in the league of a Maserati Quattroporte - though I doubt with the raised height the Slavia can replicate this figure. Check this out

https://youtu.be/sbRaZ77zOEA

[Tkm]

Why is it that while all team BHPians wax lucid about skoda cars the market outlook for skoda and VW is totally different. India had only the old venerable Fiat and Amby but now there's a plethora of vehicles to choose from.

What is it that is preventing the Indian customers at large from choosing the "right" car?

There are multiple reviews and videos in every possible language yet when the time comes to choose it is always a herd mentality. Everyone buys a duster or then a creta or then a seltos. Is the marketing wrong or our understanding of the basic Indian customer. Any views on this paradox??

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by Tkm

Why is it that while all team BHPians wax lucid about skoda cars the market outlook for skoda and VW is totally different. India had only the old venerable Fiat and Amby but now there's a plethora of vehicles to choose from. What is it that is preventing the Indian customers at large from choosing the "right" car? There are multiple reviews and videos in every possible language yet when the time comes to choose it is always a herd mentality. Everyone buys a duster or then a creta or then a seltos. Is the marketing wrong or our understanding of the basic Indian customer. Any views on this paradox??

There's no paradox at play here. And there's no such thing as a "right" car. People buy cars for their own specific requirements, only some of which can be fulfilled by VAG cars. Also, Team-Bhp members in total are a very insignificant portion of the larger market, so what's hot here may be only lukewarm for the average populace.

[Equus]

Skoda have a winner here, a very good value proposition! At 50% of the price of the previous gen Octavia, you will get 75% of the package! Sweet - perhaps this explains why Octavia was priced higher than we anticipated.
They will likely price it from 10L till 18L with 1.5 DSG will be costliest sedan in its class - beating the City ZX CVT.

[furyrider]

Originally Posted by Tkm

There are multiple reviews and videos in every possible language yet when the time comes to choose it is always a herd mentality. Everyone buys a duster or then a creta or then a seltos. Is the marketing wrong or our understanding of the basic Indian customer. Any views on this paradox??

Unfortunately, our car buying population is not what I call mature. Assume I am an average joe looking for my first car. What would I do? I will have a discussion with friends and family taking their inputs. 90% of those inputs point out to the same thing - to go with more established brands or car models that are popular in the market. Why? Because of the perception that if a car is so popular, it must be good - herd mentality as you have mentioned. Now, after some brain storming with the family, I’ve decided that I should go for a hatchback. I will have 2 contenders at the top of my list - Baleno or Swift with i20 and Gi10 as my backup options. I will pick one which I feel provides the most bang for the buck - aka more bling/features per lakh spent. I have made a booking and am happily waiting for my car to arrive. Then comes an uncle who laughs at my decision of going for a hatchback when I could get a “SUV” for the same price. I then check the SUVs (or hatchback on stilts as we bhpians call them) and short list a couple of options again - Brezza and Venue/Sonet, may be just may be Nexon if a Tata dealer is willing to sell one to me. I have booked a SUV and took delivery. I am content with my decision and thank my uncle for his advice. Service is mostly reasonable and I am happy with the availability of spares and the like.

Now comes the upgrade itch. I now have some experience in owing and maintaining a car. There are two scenarios here - I transform into someone who is interested in cars, just like one of us or I can remain an average joe like 90% of our population.

Assume I am a average joe again. By now, I would have clocked several thousand kilometers in my breadbox on wheels and can understand that my next car should have the bling + ground clearance. I naturally take a look at the Creta/Seltos twins. I will check out other cars in my budget as well - Ciaz/Verna, probably the City and the XL6/Ertiga twins. If I decide to continue with an SUV again, it will definitely be the Creta/Seltos. I eventually struggle to pick a variant out of the thousand or so versions. If I decide to go for an MPV, I will pick the XL6/Ertiga. A sedan? Ciaz definitely- after all it is a cheaper version of the City with all the bling.

You must’ve noticed a pattern here, right? I have only considered cars from Maruti, Hyundai and a lone Tata in the purchase process and did not even consider cars from the other stables. For 90% of the car buying population, VAG cars are not in the back of their minds. They will not even be in their short list of cars. The reason? Perception. Cars from brands other than Maruti, Hyundai/Kia, Tata and Mahindra are perceived as expensive to maintain and run. The FNGs in small towns do not dare to touch them. They have no presence in rural areas (which is where most of our population lives). You can randomly ask any such average joe as to why they picked up the baleno/i20 instead of polo or a Ciaz/Verna instead of Vento/Rapid or a Creta/Seltos instead of Taigun/Kushaq. You would get the same answer - they are either costly/ low on mileage/expensive to repair/maintain and most importantly, have low resale value (outside cities). I can guarantee that in most of the cases, the said cars were not even considered.

Apologies for my long post. My examples obviously were flawed. I have made an attempt to explain how car purchase decisions are made in our country. Of course, I have over generalised a lot of things and ignored other factors like space on offer, etc but it gives you a picture. Our population is not mature enough to realise and appreciate the amount of engineering that went into the development of a particular car, rather the badge on the hood and the touch screen/sunroof are the deciding factors. Škoda’s 2.0 is a small step forward in the right direction. Unless they attract more footfalls into their showrooms, their cars cease to exist in people’s minds. Looking at the success of XUV700 and the Magnite (the car that brought Nissan out of the morgue), we can see that if priced right, the car will at least get footfalls (and some bookings in the process) into the showrooms which VW/Skoda desperately needs to still be in business.

Let us see how they price the Slavia. An aggressive pricing should do a lot of good. But then, Skoda/VW are not exactly known for aggressive pricing. I really hope that the added ground clearance finds some takers and revive a dying breed.

[Tkm]

I think furyrider has hit the nail on the head. A program like top gear in its original avatar was fun to watch but also hit hard with their reviews. I agree that we go by our heart and not our mind when it comes to choosing cars. But nitkel is also right--beauty is perceived differently by the person who views it. So maybe that also holds true. We love samsung while USA loves apple. So there.

[stringbh]

Originally Posted by furyrider

The reason? Perception. Cars from brands other than Maruti, Hyundai/Kia, Tata and Mahindra are perceived as expensive to maintain and run.

Our population is not mature enough to realise and appreciate the amount of engineering that went into the development of a particular car, rather the badge on the hood and the touch screen/sunroof are the deciding factors.

Let us see how they price the Slavia. An aggressive pricing should do a lot of good. But then, Skoda/VW are not exactly known for aggressive pricing. I really hope that the added ground clearance finds some takers and revive a dying breed.

The perception is not entirely wrong. Where are the service centers for VAG cars and how are they treating their customers? Some times, entire state has one or two which can end up being over crowded, with part availability a concern (from my personal experience). Even hard core fans of well engineered cars need to evaluate options. Sure, one can and should buy extended warranty for as long as they allow for peace of mind. But, when something goes wrong, how many days can I leave the car in workshop (Say, you do not have more than one car in garage?)?

So, a significant population who would want to go for VAG cars are probably being put off as the service experience has not improved by leaps and bounds over the last decade. How long do they need to figure this out? Personally, I for one have not seen any change. I do not have experience with Maruti/Hyundai/Tata, so cannot comment.

Having said all the above, Skoda with Kushaq and now Slavia, has the best chance to capture market in a long time, already on paper. There should be a variant for everybody out there As a customer, I do not mind if the top end Slavia is priced a bit at a premium and gives a solidly built car with competitive interiors. I never cared for features on offer, just the driving experience with safety on offer, and confidence that I can keep the car for 7-8 years with out niggles. But, if the service experience does not improve it will be difficult to attract chunk of population.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by furyrider

Then comes an uncle who laughs at my decision of going for a hatchback when I could get a “SUV” for the same price.

Well said - the sad thing is that such uncles and other elders (including Dads and Grandads in many cases) are so sure of themselves and offer absolute directions not suggestions. The innocent and obedient first time buyer does not want to risk going head-on against such an uncle’s directive lest the decision he makes turns out to be wrong and then the buyer will have to face the ominous “I told you so” not only from the uncle but from the buyer’s family also.

The only hope is more Uncles become team-bhp members and start offering real reasoned and factual choices based on what the nephew’s wants and needs are (both practically and aspirationally)

[ss212]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Skoda Slavia and its twin brother from Brazil, the VW Virtus:

I can't believe I didn't spot this earlier. It's is literally the same car.

Virtus = Polo sedan
Slavia = Virtus

That's a good thing - as long as they haven't made too many changes while bringing it to India.

I dislike the instrument cluster so much. The tacho and speedo dials can't be had at the same time.

Besides, until OLED screens or micro LED screens come to cars (like they have with smartphones), these digital instrument clusters will look hideous at night.

I think the S Class has OLED screens all around.

Just give us the regular beautiful dials back.

Apart from these minor things, they've really nailed it.

[Meph1st0]

That's a good thing - as long as they haven't made too many changes while bringing it to India.

They look very much similar externally. Indian Virtus will look identical.
However there are two changes - one - Salvia has 95% localization. This could be a good thing as this helps keep the costs down but hopefully the quality remains same. (though reports of not so strong build like typical Skoda cars doesn't help), two - the platform used in MQB AO IN which is a low cost version of MQB A0 that the VW Virtus Brazil is based on.

Hopefully a crash test whenever it happens will clear the air.