[SR-71]

Informative thread. I have a query that is perhaps off-topic a bit. How reliable are the used car dealership associated with the car dealership like Hyundai H-Promise, Skoda Preowned or Toyota Trust. Would they ever resell the car to the end buyer without a RC change. If they cant be trusted either, what's the point of even relying on used car business ?

[androdev]

Originally Posted by SR-71

Informative thread. I have a query that is perhaps off-topic a bit. How reliable are the used car dealership associated with the car dealership like Hyundai H-Promise, Skoda Preowned or Toyota Trust. Would they ever resell the car to the end buyer without a RC change. If they cant be trust either, what's the point of even relying on used car business ?

They are good with respect to RC Transfer etc. but they don't offer good price unless you are buying a new car (exchange) even then the prices offered are low. I feel they do a better job when to comes to RC transfer and misuse of car before the sale/transfer to end user compared to these aggregators who are essentially just. software platform over small-time dealers.

[MMV]

Very insightful thread indeed, Kudos!

As highlighted by fellow bhpians, the recent inflow of money into used car market (incl large investors) and shortage of chips + COVID (need for own car) heated up the used car market. As an insider and person active in the market for years, you could sense the extent of price rise due to increased fund flow better than buyers.

Personally feel that buying from a genuine seller is the best way to get a good deal, in fact many years back cardekho.com had a filter on type of seller (but still they show the seller type as a data point) now discontinued for last few years, esp due to their bigger plans in the used car space. I had few years back bought a car using this filter in cardekho.com and the price (even at that point in time) was cheap.

My experience makes me believe the used car dealers at least make 50% margin on car. When I contacted the seller (as mentioned above from cardekho listing), after inspection and test drive he said he need 3grands for the car as he have a standing offer from a portal for 2.9 (but prefers direct sale due to RC transfer issues etc). Later I chanced on the same car listed in droom portal (it continued to be listed many months after I bought it, which is why I feel these portals focus on listing without verification just to gain visitors/clicks) for 5.5grands (with all score and checkpoints etc). Even a hard bargainer would have been able to bring down the price to max 4.5grands leaving a cool 50% margin for the intermediary.

May the margin would have slightly reduced due to large demand and more players coming in as seen in the current scenario, but it still should be at least 30%.

Personally feel that used car prices is now jacked up due to so many players and large fund flow to this new ‘asset class’. I wish it normalises in 6 months to one year. It’s a good point that sellers are getting good deal (more than earlier days) but it’s bad that the ignorant buyer is fleeced (by no negotiation policy of large, organised aggregators). More the funds at their disposal more time they would hold on to the prices. So like in any ecom/consumer focussed sector unless the institutional money is exhausted the prices would be kept high, so we may witness high used car prices for at least few more years.

On another note, as a seller we had sold cars to cars24 and the experience was good, esp considering the car was sold outside the state it was registered (they did the transfer and payment quickly) and the price was fair (considering no hassles involved).

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by SLK

We threatened them with legal action, which didn't work either, so the car till date drives (or exists) somewhere in our name.

Basically, the aggregators are a skin on top of local car dealers, nothing else.

Better to approach the RTO with all the documents as proofs and get the registration blacklisted. I guess that's the only way to get out of this mess. Better to consult a good lawyer if possible for a plausible solution/advise in this matter.
I have been through a similar situation where, 7 years back i had sold my Karizma. The new owner later sold the bike to his friend while the bike was still on my name. Fortunately the new owner was cooperative (he himself was cursing of buying the bike) and got the vehicle transferred to his name. The whole process was mentally draining with multiple trips to Mumbai (bike was MH02 registered) from Pune and all this in between the pandemic.
Swore, the next time i sell any of my vehicles, it would be in front of an agent who will then and there initiate the paperwork and this will be the very first condition.
@asit-thanks for putting up this thread.

[AnishRanjan]

High time we needed this thread on team bhp. All these online aggregators are fraudsters, I will say that outright. Ill narrate my experience with cars 24 last year as i chanced upon their portal when I was on the lookout for a used pajero. Getting pajero's was proving to be a herculean task and these guys had a 2007 blue pajero listed on their site. It was the first time i was on their site and i was i was immediately impressed with the points based score on which the car is checked against various parameters. The engine was given a 5 on 5 and I will come back to this. I got so excited seeing all this, I decided to head to cars 24 office which is very close to the place i stay as I dint want to talk to a call center person regarding the car. Once i was there i was told the person dealing with the cars inventory was not present and my number was taken and I was told I will be called back by him once he returns to office. He called me in half and hour and i went back to speak to him about the car. He tried hard but he couldn't get the details and told me will arrange a vehicle inspection the next day.

The next day i got a call from him and he told me the car is in the owners house and asked to me to come to a well know junction in JP Nagar. I reached there on time and finally got to see the car which i was waiting for so long to see in flesh. The exterior looked decent and it was a good first impression. I asked for the key and a test drive and it was immediately rejected by the owner and he gave me frivolous excuses for that. The cars 24 guy also tried but failed. This immediately got me thinking, I asked to look inside and asked if I could start the car which the owner obliged happily. The car struggled to start and finally it did start. I got out of the vehicle to check on the exhaust and I was shocked to see a big plum of white smoke out of the exhaust. I keep the car running for 10 mins but it made no difference. White smoke is surely a warning that the engine is in very bad health. The worst case scenario would be the head gasket was blown and its a nightmare when it comes to car like the pajero. This was where i realized that these people and all the talk about quality inspections are a load of nonsense. A couple of points to notice:

1. When i confronted the cars 24 guys about white smoke and the engine not sounding all right they just dismissed it saying it just needs a service.
2. I managed to find the guy who inspected the car and i asked him how could he have rated the engine 5/5 when i could not even rate it 1/5. He dint seem to have an answer and when i probed further he told me he's just an graduate with no mechanical background and was given basic training and was sent out to do inspections. This was shocking.
3. I was of the opinion these people had experienced mechanics with them who were knowledgeable and experienced to do the inspections. I was so totally wrong.
4. There were other glaring omissions as well but I don't want to make this post too long. The point is I have better inspection skills and mechanical knowledge than the folks that these people have hired for fancy posts with fancy titles. They lack even common sense and analytical skills.
5. It was a big eye opener for me and I just decided to walk out from there.

So to conclude and if you are a buyer please don't believe one word written on their portal and also the sales guys. They have zero knowledge of cars and they have a sales target to achieve. They will push through cars which are absolute lemons and if you are a person who is not knowledgeable, you might end up in a big mess. Research before you buy and take it to knowledgeable mechanics and inspect the car before you buy. By doing this you will save yourself time, effort and money.

[Samba]

My friend who lives in Bangalore wanted to buy a pre-owned petrol cvt for his parents in Kolkata. The car was kept with a reputed dealer and the asking price was on the higher side.
Over the telephonic conversation, the dealer told them about the pros and cons of the car.
My friend was told, that the car was in excellent condition, it just had one minor accident, so the front bumper and bonnet is repainted. If he buy the car, there is absolutely no pending work. They have gone through bla bla bla check points.

My friend called me and asked me to physically inspect the car if I can manage some free time. He being a college friend I agreed for that.

My report from the inspection was different from what they told. I drove the car for 10km and inspected it-

Positives-

Genuine 37k on the odo.
Service history was available.
Interior was in good shape.
Original paint in most body panels.
Aprons were intact.
No visible rust from floor, under the beadings and underbody.
No rattles.
Brakes had good bite and no squeaking.
Ac, music system and other electricals worked fine.
Tax paid till 2025.
All documents were upto date.

Negatives-

Weak battery.
Started like a diesel with vibration(Engine mounts need attention.)
Front suspension overhauling required on both the sides.
Rear left shockabsorber had a leak.
Driver side one touch up on the power window was not working.
Left A pillar joint was misaligned with the bonnet & fender with a trace of rust.
Front bumper repainted.
The bonnet was repainted with a small trace of rust.
Uneven tyre wears. All 4 tyres reached the end of their life.
Hits flat spot at 40 km/hr. The cvt was hesitant to shift at that particular speed.

After my report, my friend backed off from the deal. Later he got another AT directly from the owner which was in a much better shape & the pricing was more reasonable. I was not able to inspect that car, so he got it inspected from the authorised service centre and they have him a go ahead.

[lsjey]

Great and informative thread on the dark side of the aggregators in used car market.

My takeaway: choose a brick and mortar used car brokerage that has been operating for a good amount of time and buy a not so popular car if you are not technically savvy. Otherwise, get technically savvy.

Regards,
lsjey

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by androdev

You get an agreement of sorts where you are obligated to co-operate with the transfer and they will agree to take over the liabilities after handover. As a seller, this is pretty much the best case scenario for me.

The concept of delivery note has been in the used car business for over a decade but it's a mere understanding between the two parties. In case of legal hassles it really doesn't help the case. A lot of these unsold cars are running around without insurance. No aggregator is actually liable incase something happens to the car. All is well if the transfer happens.

Originally Posted by SLK

Basically, the aggregators are a skin on top of local car dealers, nothing else.

Sorry to hear about your experience. This was an issue from day 1. There was no control over the car after sale.

Originally Posted by SR-71

Informative thread. I have a query that is perhaps off-topic a bit. How reliable are the used car dealership associated with the car dealership like Hyundai H-Promise, Skoda Preowned or Toyota Trust. Would they ever resell the car to the end buyer without a RC change. If they cant be trusted either, what's the point of even relying on used car business ?

It varies from brand to brand but in case of Maruti Suzuki, the dealers are fined if the transfer doesn't happen in 60 days. Due to this a lot true value outlets prefer B2C transactions. B2B happens only in case of majorly damaged vehicles which no end customer would buy from true value. With Hyundai, Toyota, Skoda & VW the process is smooth in general. A few years back, a big local used car dealer in collaboration with the new car dealer had his representatives at the dealership to procure cars. This worked better but now a lot of these aggregators have their representatives at the new car dealerships and they auction these cars on their respective platforms. The biggest advantage in buying a vehicle from these outlets is the access to history incase the vehicle is of the same brand. Incase you buy a product of another brand then you need to get the car thrououghly checked.

Originally Posted by MMV

Very insightful thread indeed, Kudos!

Good to know about your experience. If margins were indeed around 50%, I would be writing this thread sitting at my bungalow in the hills but that isn't the case. Standard margins have been 10-15% for the last 8-10 years. With technology in the industry and wide spread social media, the fooling business is almost non existent. One touch of a button, anyone can get an idea about the price of their car.

Originally Posted by AnishRanjan

High time we needed this thread on team bhp. All these online aggregators are fraudsters, I will say that outright.

This must have been the begining of the cars24 B2C platform. Nowadays they only sell cars at their yard. This experience should be an eye opener for many. Thanks for sharing.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Either you need to re read my posts and understand the difference between the dealer and aggregator or you are just catching the extreme end of my posts to create chaos here. Either ways, I have explained the point around additional margins due to the aggregators. That answers the concern. Please also understand that since last 1.5 years, local brokers & dealers have become aggressive too. They do not fully rely on these aggregators for their inventory. Options like Facebook marketplace also have enhanced individual to individual sales.

They were simple questions since your post did not elaborate on who were the fake bidders. Why do you get so hyper to allege that I'm trying to create chaos if I'm asking you simple balanced questions to better understand what you're trying to say?

Anyways, thank you for answering my questions. Good luck with your used car business, I do think that the business per se has a lot of potential with so many people changing their cars every few years. Wish the aggregators had really helped clean up the business with more legitimate funding and better inspection processes. Sad that they've not really helped improve the business as much as one would have hoped...

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

They were simple questions since your post did not elaborate on who were the fake bidders. Why do you get so hyper to allege that I'm trying to create chaos if I'm asking you simple balanced questions to better understand what you're trying to say?

Anyways, thank you for answering my questions. Good luck with your used car business, I do think that the business per se has a lot of potential with so many people changing their cars every few years. Wish the aggregators had really helped clean up the business with more legitimate funding and better inspection processes. Sad that they've not really helped improve the business as much as one would have hoped...

Easy man. I am not alleging nor am I hyper about this stuff. I just replied to your post with the same tone as you had started. Glad it’s clear now.

I would like to highlight that I am no longer a full fledged part of the used car business. I maintain no inventory and mostly help friends or family in selling or buying their cars, that’s it. Yes my network is in place as it was my bread and butter for a brief period and it has definitely helped me learn a lot. There was a pune based startup which had a very transparent auction portal but they seem to have shut shop now.

[mak556]

On a funnier note, I will share an experience with Cars 24 sales experience

I once tried to sell an Ashok Leyland Tipper and in a span of 4-5 days was escalated till sales head for Maharashtra because this vehicle was not in their database. Goes to show sales is run by dummies who know nothing of the industry.

[jithin23]

I was wondering how come such a thread didn't exist and Bam! It's here finally!!

The OP has exactly summed up what happens with these so called used car aggregators and they are nothing less than a fancy multi brand dealership.

Even when I was on a lookout for a pre owned car, these aggregators do not even budge to reduce a single rupee and tell us that "Sir we have checked it with our 200 point checklist and the car is in good condition." One can get any digital meter clocked for 1-2k and nobody will know this, not even the so called aggregators.

They price 6-7 year old cars as if there's no depreciation at all. A 2016 polo GT for 7.8L

I will share a few examples which I had gone through live last month:

Scene 1: How Spinny sold a slightly damaged S cross.

Spinny had put a 2016 model S cross run 62k kms for 7.7L and one of my friends fell for it. Even though I told him think otherwise, he wanted the car no matter what. The end result, glow plugs were conked(spinny replaced it for free) and the rear doors still produce a squeaky sound. They didn't even reduce a penny. Plus they had wrongly mentioned that S cross has Traction control. I told this point to the salesman at Spinny and he says sir we can't do anything. This is misinformation and lack of research As far as I remember, none of MSIL manual transmission cars come with ESP or traction control till date! The icing on the cake is that these guys didn't even clear the traffic fines

Scene 2: A flood affected Freestyle. I went all the way to Chennai to check this car.

Again from the same company and they claimed that the car has run 44k, but when I started the car, it seemed like the car was on its last legs and the car failed the compression test(heavy white smoke from the engine bay and I didn't even take a test drive yet). Plus the car looked different in pictures and in person, the RHS headlights had a blackish stain.

Scene 3: Other dealers polished cars

There are a few independent dealers like the cars collective, Percarmat and a lot others and I just did the compression test first before driving. 80% of these cars failed the test and the one which passed had some error or CEL popping up. Mind you, these folks charge prices which are dangerously close to new car prices.

Compression test is basically keep the car in idle or drive it till operating temp and then open the dipstick. If you see any thick smoke, stay away from that car.

I have rejected a ton of cars through this method and it indirectly saved me from lemon cars.

Scene 4: One individual owner dude was trying to be over smart by selling a 10k km run 2018 MY EcoSport S which was registered in Jan 2019 and asking price was for 11.7L. He had masked the number plate on Olx but I spotted the same car near my area and did some search on the car and the car still didn't have Loan cleared. I told all these points and he reluctantly told me that cars24 is offering 10.7 and it's a 5 star rated car and he was going on telling that I'm getting buyers for 11+L. Plus he told that he had cleared the loan but he didn't apply for NOC or Hypothecation cancellation. Moreover Insurance too was due in Jan.I just walked away from that deal as they seller didn't budge for these pointers and was adamant on his stand. I don't understand why people mask the number plates while trying to sell a car. Anyway the whole world will see your car number while on the road. Duh!

My takeaway: Never trust any dealer and get a used car from an individual (preferably a known person, so that you know the complete history of the vehicle). Don't fall for the fancy pics and so called checklists from so called certified dealers. Ask any of these aggregators do the features March to their description and if it doesn't, will they reduce the price. The answer is a NO. All the guys know is to reach sales targets, regardless of being ethical or not. About used part sellers, the lesser said, the better.

Finally, I got a car(another EcoSport) from a known acquaintance last week after a month long search!

All the best buying a pre worshipped car!

[Akki272]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Hello,

I see the forum flooded since the last 2 days on reviews of spinny, cars24, olx autos(earlier cashmycar) & gaadi.com. I just thought of sharing my experience with some of these aggregators. I was an active channel partner between 2016 to 2020 with many of them. I can tell you the other side of the story now that I have withdrawn from all of their subscriptions and limited my used car business to a help to close friends and family.

This post was exactly what i was looking for considering i am looking to get a pre-worshipped one soon.

This is indeed an eyeopener for those who in the past have purchased one and then faced difficulties in a mere few months of their purchase. As rightly mentioned by a fellow BHP-ian, its still not clean as it seems it is. this used car business. Thanks a lot

Mod Note: Please avoid quoting the entire post when responding.

[anjan_c2007]

Thanks a lot for the insider's story and the very succinct narrative of the now flourishing used car aggregators.

The words of caution are like Bible and will open the eyes and ears of the gullible, potential victims.

I had gone to a Maruti True Value Car Mela a few years ago. They used to have it at various open grounds prior to festivals. They had a 120 point check menu for all the cars showcased in the gathering. When a sales personnel was asked a simple question by my friend as to what these 120 checks are, the person was unable to answer. A few other sales personnel gathered soon, but none were able to answer.

All the cars are serviced washed and polished to appear gleaming. Gullible buyers with families visit and even if the father is hesitant, the spouse and children succumb to the outer spick and span appearance of the car, pressurising the father to give in.

I would like to remember the age old Rajesh Khanna /Kishore Kumar hit song from Saccha Jhoota here:-

Dil ko dekho, chehara naa dekho, cheharo ne laakho ko luta ha dil sacha aur chehara jhuta

Jo apanee sachee surat dikha de, aise nahee duniyawaale

Sab ne hi apne cheharon ke aage
Jhoot ke parde hain daale

To translate it this means:-

"see the heart, not the face, the face has duped many,
the heart is real while the face is fake,
The people do not show their real faces,
everyone has put a veil of lies to cover up the face. "

[roadjourno]

Excellent thread and eye opener on the used car business model.

Individual buyers are always a good option.

However, out of curiosity does any BHPIAN has experience in selling their Toyota Cars to Pune Toyota dealers (U-Trust)?


They say that they will give written affidavit on 100rs stamp paper reg the liability arising in case of mishap or fines post receiving full amount via bank xfer

Please share your experiences as i am in now process of selling one of the 10 year old Toyota cars to them. I have received similar quotes from as i intend to upgrade to the better model than current one. Still, both are non-committal on the time frame the vehicle ownership transfer time.


Regards,
RJ