[sreejithkk]

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

Did XL6 and Ertiga go through the NCAP tests? I see a reference to meeting the norms, but the results are not public or they did not get tested.

I understand from VFM perspective, but why doesn't Maruti and Hyundai publish their NCAP ratings

May be they don't care about it and it is not mandatory. Even when Brezza got 4 star rating, they never bothered about to publish it. And I guess this is applicable to all manufactures. Tata never publish the rating of their flagships like Harrier/Safari and never sponsor the voluntary test for these. Mahindra never publish the rating of their best sellers Scorpio and Bolero. VW/Skoda/Jeep etc never publish the GNCAP score of any of their current models as they have not sponsored the voluntary test for any of the cars.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

I see a reference to meeting the norms, but the results are not public or they did not get tested.

It's not a norm and hence is impossible to 'meet'. It's a consumer test for buyers to compare crashworthiness performance among different cars (in the same size class), currently only for urban frontal car-to-car crashes.

I'm quite sure that when they say 'meeting norms' they mean minimum ECE crash tests which you can 'pass'. The Government has applied them since 2019. Frontal impact is at 56km/h (vs 64 in GNCAP) and without child dummies. Global NCAP's scoring is such that even a one star car passes ECE regulation, sometimes even zero (because of the lower speed). In the NCAP test (despite higher speed) injury above the maximum allowed in the ECE test means 0 points for that body part (if for head, neck or chest then zero overall too). Plus in the GNCAP cars are penalised for factors that could reduce the relevance or hamper the repeatability of the result. The maximum 4 points ('green'/good) means not only a <5% risk of serious or worse injury from dummy readings, but also that the response is quite 'robust'. This is quite a bit tougher than the government norms so 'meeting norms' does not guarantee a high NCAP result for the Ertiga or any other car on sale for that matter.

The problem is deciding, as a consumer, how much importance you want to give to the test: it's worth noting that the GNCAP's test for India is essentially a very old Latin NCAP test for unregulated emerging markets. Presently it currently covers only an offset frontal impact which represents a 55km/h-to-55km/h head-on crash between two cars of similar mass. This isn't an extremely common type of crash in India. Protection to critical body regions like the head, neck and chest is important and I'd recommend avoiding cars that have poor (S-Presso) or weak (i10, Swift, i20) protection to critical body regions but beyond that some cars, like the Ertiga, also lose points for protection of the feet and legs, which IMHO is not as important as protecting critical body regions in other crashes (i.e., side thorax and head airbags) and more importantly, crash prevention (ESC, blind spot detection etc.).

The pre-facelift Ertiga achieved three stars for adult and child occupant protection in the test. For the adults the main reason for the loss of score was high intrusion into the driver's footwell which threatened the driver's feet (and some minor instability of structural performance of the passenger compartment). Protection to the head, neck and chest was marginal or better, which IMO is quite respectable. It also gets ESC as optional, and side thorax airbags but not head airbags.

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

why doesn't Maruti and Hyundai publish their NCAP ratings

They really don't have to, plus on top of that both of them have beef with Global NCAP, especially because of their recent work in Latin America. Even manufacturers that welcome testing rarely sponsor testing for new models unless it's a retest to avoid the embarrassment of a bad result (Polo, Mobilio). Honda for example didn't sponsor the Jazz for years but when they were selected by Global NCAP they were very pleased. I reckon VW should be the same. I don't know what it is: one theory is that it is quite expensive to have the cars shipped to Germany where the test laboratory is.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by sreejithkk

....Tata never publish the rating of their flagships like Harrier/Safari and never sponsor the voluntary test for these. Mahindra never publish the rating of their best sellers Scorpio and Bolero. VW/Skoda/Jeep etc never publish the GNCAP score...

There is a theory going around in YouTube circles that Cars based on Global Left Hand Drive Structure and localized in India as Right Hand Drive like Jeep Compass or TATA Harrier will actually fair poorly in GNCAP tests. Hence they have never been offered by these OEMs to NCAP for testing. This is apparently something to do with Engine peripherals orientation. Don't know the truth to these allegations but it is interesting that GNCAP has never once ventured towards these vehicles for testing. Maybe the sales volumes affect their decision making.

[diwakarmuthu]

Originally Posted by ron178

They really don't have to, plus on top of that both of them have beef with Global NCAP, especially because of their recent work in Latin America. Even manufacturers that welcome testing rarely sponsor testing for new models unless it's a retest to avoid the embarrassment of a bad result (Polo, Mobilio). Honda for example didn't sponsor the Jazz for years but when they were selected by Global NCAP they were very pleased. I reckon VW should be the same. I don't know what it is: one theory is that it is quite expensive to have the cars shipped to Germany where the test laboratory is.

Thanks for the explanation. Though one would never know the internals of how a test works the GNCAP campaign for #safercarsforindia campaign is pushing more cars for testing. I was going through the GNCAP site and found that Toyota Urban Cruiser has achieved four stars with 2 airbags. My thinking is why Maruti did not make the effort, while Toyota using the same car gets 4 stars.

[sreejithkk]

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

My thinking is why Maruti did not make the effort, while Toyota using the same car gets 4 stars.

If you go through the GNCAP result page, you could see that Brezza, which is the base for Urban cruiser has already scored 4 star in 2018 itself.
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...uki-Vitara.pdf

[ron178]

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

My thinking is why Maruti did not make the effort, while Toyota using the same car gets 4 stars.

They did; the Brezza achieved four stars for adult occupant protection when tested in 2018. Differences include an extra seatbelt reminder (+0.5), minor improvement in driver chest protection, and Toyota recommends different child seats for Group 1 kids in the Urban Cruiser so there was a bump in the 18 month-old's dynamic score. I think there's a small chance even the current generation could achieve five, Global NCAP did say it was close to five stars, and apparently a full interview is coming soon (possibly after the next results, I estimate ~next week or after).

The Urban Cruiser test was unofficially an audit test to the Brezza to verify conformity of production. It went well.

2018 Maruti Suzuki Vitara Brezza (Media release)
2021 Toyota Urban Cruiser (Media release)

There were rumours on ET Now that Maruti could be targeting four stars even for the facelifted Ertiga, although I suspect that by the time it's tested Global NCAP might have moved to their new, tougher protocol under which the Ertiga will lose out because it doesn't have side airbags with head protection, and possibly because ESC production volume is very low.

[diwakarmuthu]

Originally Posted by sreejithkk

If you go through the GNCAP result page[/url]

Thanks, didn't go through the full list. My bad!

Originally Posted by ron178

They did; the Brezza achieved four stars for adult occupant protection when tested in 2018.

There were rumours on ET Now that Maruti could be targeting four stars even for the facelifted Ertiga, although I suspect that by the time it's tested Global NCAP might have moved to their new, tougher protocol under which the Ertiga will lose out because it doesn't have side airbags with head protection, and possibly because ESC production volume is very low.

Thanks Ron for the detailed explanation. This helps.

[Crank]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

The Ertiga is crash tested and has a 3 star NCAP rating with the child safety exceeding Nexon's child safety by 1 point.

Also, before raising questions at these cars, I think we require to ask Tata and the Germans about safety ratings of the facelifted Nexon, Nexon EV, Tata Safari, Tata Harrier, Skoda Kushaq, Skoda Slavia, VW Virtus, VW Taigun and many more since people buy these cars while assuming them to be safe unlike most Maruti and Hyundai owners who are well aware that their cars are unsafe.

Please look into the GNCAP website to get clarified on your doubts.
https://www.globalncap.org/safercarsforindia

Nexon got 5 star for adult protection and 3 star for child protection. Ertiga got 3 star in both and the points are same in child protection, 25 each. But Nexon got 16 points and Ertiga 9 points in the adult protection. Facelifted versions need not be tested as in Brezza case as the mechanicals are the same. Skoda Kushaq is already tested and got 5 stars in both adult and child protection. Slavia & Virtus will get tested and results will get published.

The problem is that both Suzuki and Hyundai had been vocal about their negligence towards the Global NCAP ratings and as far as they comply to government regulations, in safety aspects, they are good. Their cars in Europe and elsewhere with strong government regulations comply to NCAP ratings. The question is why these double standards. Don't Indian lives matter to these companies?

Originally Posted by sreejithkk

May be they don't care about it and it is not mandatory. Even when Brezza got 4 star rating, they never bothered about to publish it. And I guess this is applicable to all manufactures. Tata never publish the rating of their flagships like Harrier/Safari and never sponsor the voluntary test for these. Mahindra never publish the rating of their best sellers Scorpio and Bolero. VW/Skoda/Jeep etc never publish the GNCAP score of any of their current models as they have not sponsored the voluntary test for any of the cars.

Harrier and Safari are not yet tested. Probably Tata is not confident about those cars. But all other tested cars, they proudly showcase the safety rating. Mahindra is eyeing for 5 star rating of their Scorpio N. Link below.
https://www.carblogindia.com/2022-ma...safety-rating/

Bolero's refresh may meet the GNCAP safety standards. The current one will get zero stars like the previous version Scorpio. Hence they keep quiet about it.

VW/Skoda prodly advertise that their Taigun/Kushaq are 5 star rated. Their website calls out clearly as "India's safest SUV".