Why did you buy a diesel?

aaggoswami · 24th July 2009, 00:14

1) Modern day diesel cars can be used as petrol car without any worry. Already mentioned is the reason why short runs are not liked by manufacturers.

2) Maintenance cost will be higher. Diesel engines run on higher compression and are built more sturdier than petrol motors. The reason why it require more energy for startup also. Some components can be costly, specially the injection components in common rail diesel cars.

That said, any regularly maintain and not abused diesel in this era can cross 1 lakh kms. mark easily without major trouble.
The economies are dependent on how much you run and where. That should be deciding factor.
A few things that are not necessary in diesel cars :
1) Revving hard before shutting down engine. Even today, I have seen Verna Crdi and Fiesta owners do this. Absolutely not necessary.
2) Starting with accelerator pressed. As soon as engine starts, it revvs all the way to high rpm. This must be avoided in all cars.

aZa · 24th July 2009, 00:31

Interesting thread, since i'm also looking a buying an oil burner!

What about Diesel engine's reliability ? After say the engine has clocked 50K kms ? will it still be as peppy as a santro/zen ? keeping the maintainance same!

archat68 · 24th July 2009, 09:48

In the modern cars and if they are maintained properly - surely they will still have the peppiness.

frankmehta · 24th July 2009, 12:01

I'm no longer looking at the economical aspect of this. The crdi engine has won a lot of hearts and I am one of the victims. Dieselust has caught up with me, and I really think its better to go for a diesel. Who knows, the mileage I cover might increase drastically! Might even have a driver drive me to college in my final year! But one things for sure. The new oil burners are as silent and docile sounding as the petrol engines, but the immense torque and the driveability of the engines make almost all drives a pleasure , rather than mere chores!

teknophobia · 24th July 2009, 12:19

Reasons why I love my diesel:

1) Fuel economy most of all, I have around half the running cost as that of a Maruti 800, on the same trip, I burnt about 1800 Rs. worth of Diesel, my friend's 800 burnt about 3300.

2) Immense torque at low revs = wonderful driveability.

3) I love the engine sound, at the revs I usually run at (Around 1300-1500), my car's engine makes a gurgling sound like a happy kid, on high revs it has a wonderful deep throated roar.

However, some caveats when you go in for a diesel:

1) You will hate the turbo lag, esp. when you have to sudenly overtake. In a petrol, I can just floor the throttle, in my diesel, I have to slam down a gear and leave a smokescreen.

2) The car will take at least 3-5 kms to warm up to operating temp.

3) It is nose heavy compared to its petrol sibling, so turning at high speed is slower.

4) You will need to give the car it's head and run it at high speeds (100+) for at least 30-40 km at least once a month otherwise the EGR valve and the air intake will get choked.

prasanth · 24th July 2009, 12:20

Removing the economic aspects and battery, are the engine components affected by short runs. Say the vehicle would only run once or twice a week and that too short runs like 5-6 kms. And also what about the non-crdi ones?

Technocrat · 24th July 2009, 12:50

From what I have read & what even I think, you should go for the 1.4 CRDi

Btw did you check/TD the 1.4 Auto?

COUGAR · 24th July 2009, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by archat68

Actually frequent short run is harmful to a car - any car.

Without hijacking the main thread: can you explain this statement?

Technocrat · 24th July 2009, 15:03

coughar check the post by ImmortalZ on first page

In short on a smaller runs the engine doesnt warm up to the ideal working temperature which has its impact on the longer run.

archat68 · 24th July 2009, 15:10

The engine experiences the maximum stress when a car cold-started. Because it takes certain amount of time for lubricants to to reach every nooks and crannies of the engine. That is why you should never rev your engine hard when its not sufficiently warm. Also if you put load on the engine till you warm up - you stress the engine. With frequent starts and stops your battery will wear first - as it will not get sufficient charge in the short run period. Also, in the short run period the engine does not gets a chance to achieve various RPM - which is also detrimental to the engine in long run.

filcord · 24th July 2009, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1)
A few things that are not necessary in diesel cars :
.......
2) Starting with accelerator pressed. As soon as engine starts, it revvs all the way to high rpm. This must be avoided in all cars.

Strange. I had Ford Escort diesel 1.8 (normal diesel), where I think the manual recommended procedure was to start with accelerator pressed?

.anshuman · 24th July 2009, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by aZa

Interesting thread, since i'm also looking a buying an oil burner!

What about Diesel engine's reliability ? After say the engine has clocked 50K kms ? will it still be as peppy as a santro/zen ? keeping the maintainance same!

I drive a diesel elantra now at 120k kms,its running as good as new,it still gives bad times to most petrols even with shortshifting,no problems so far except clutch change at 60k kms.

aaggoswami · 24th July 2009, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by filcord

Strange. I had Ford Escort diesel 1.8 (normal diesel), where I think the manual recommended procedure was to start with accelerator pressed?

Thats relatively an old car. Here IIRC, the ECU control most of the operations and hence the pressing of accelerator is not necassary. The ECU controls the injected fuel quantity and start of injection timing required for starting primarily determined by engine coolant temperature and cranking speed.
The common rail direct injection system uses electronic circuits to control the amount of fuel that is injected in to the cylinder. Also the injection quantity and pressure are all accurately controlled.
During the firing sequence of a particular cylinder, the high pressure tyipcally EUC controlled injector will be opened and fuel with a pressure of about 2000 bar is injected in to the cylinder

Also, by the meaning of pressed, its just a slight touch. Generally I have seen people misinterpreting the word pressed and simply floor the pedal. This will only harm the engine,nothing more. Avoid these high revv starts.

pachchu · 24th July 2009, 18:57

few myth vs fact questions I had in mind - not covered until now - it would help if somebody could answer these as well

is it a myth or fact that diesel engines emit more pollutants than petrol engine? let's consider the latest CRDI engines for this discussion sake.

what is the reason for cheaper diesel in India? Is Govt subsidizing it for farmers (to run tubewells) or is this a trend worldwide in capitalist countries also?

faithless_1984 · 24th July 2009, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aZa

Interesting thread, since i'm also looking at buying an oil burner!

Me too.

So need some answers guys....

My usage is around 2500-3000 kms a month ,is this enough to go for a diesel ?
A fellow bhpian and a close friend (Harsh87) faced a lot of problems with his swift vdi after 40k kms.
I plan to keep this car for around 2-3yrs so will it give me hard time after 60k-70k kms ?
Am bad at calculations so can anyone tell me when/how will i fully utilize the 1 lac premium ill have to pay for the diesel engine ?

24th July 2009, 00:14	#106
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,982 Thanked: 2,931 Times	1) Modern day diesel cars can be used as petrol car without any worry. Already mentioned is the reason why short runs are not liked by manufacturers. 2) Maintenance cost will be higher. Diesel engines run on higher compression and are built more sturdier than petrol motors. The reason why it require more energy for startup also. Some components can be costly, specially the injection components in common rail diesel cars. That said, any regularly maintain and not abused diesel in this era can cross 1 lakh kms. mark easily without major trouble. The economies are dependent on how much you run and where. That should be deciding factor. A few things that are not necessary in diesel cars : 1) Revving hard before shutting down engine. Even today, I have seen Verna Crdi and Fiesta owners do this. Absolutely not necessary. 2) Starting with accelerator pressed. As soon as engine starts, it revvs all the way to high rpm. This must be avoided in all cars.
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 00:31	#107
aZa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Noida / Delhi Posts: 1,595 Thanked: 21 Times View My Garage	Interesting thread, since i'm also looking a buying an oil burner! What about Diesel engine's reliability ? After say the engine has clocked 50K kms ? will it still be as peppy as a santro/zen ? keeping the maintainance same!
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 09:48	#108
archat68 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kolkata Posts: 897 Thanked: 619 Times	In the modern cars and if they are maintained properly - surely they will still have the peppiness.
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 12:01	#109
frankmehta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,000 Thanked: 3,577 Times View My Garage	I'm no longer looking at the economical aspect of this. The crdi engine has won a lot of hearts and I am one of the victims. Dieselust has caught up with me, and I really think its better to go for a diesel. Who knows, the mileage I cover might increase drastically! Might even have a driver drive me to college in my final year! But one things for sure. The new oil burners are as silent and docile sounding as the petrol engines, but the immense torque and the driveability of the engines make almost all drives a pleasure , rather than mere chores!
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 12:19	#110
teknophobia BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: WB/MH Posts: 385 Thanked: 121 Times	Reasons why I love my diesel: 1) Fuel economy most of all, I have around half the running cost as that of a Maruti 800, on the same trip, I burnt about 1800 Rs. worth of Diesel, my friend's 800 burnt about 3300. 2) Immense torque at low revs = wonderful driveability. 3) I love the engine sound, at the revs I usually run at (Around 1300-1500), my car's engine makes a gurgling sound like a happy kid, on high revs it has a wonderful deep throated roar. However, some caveats when you go in for a diesel: 1) You will hate the turbo lag, esp. when you have to sudenly overtake. In a petrol, I can just floor the throttle, in my diesel, I have to slam down a gear and leave a smokescreen. 2) The car will take at least 3-5 kms to warm up to operating temp. 3) It is nose heavy compared to its petrol sibling, so turning at high speed is slower. 4) You will need to give the car it's head and run it at high speeds (100+) for at least 30-40 km at least once a month otherwise the EGR valve and the air intake will get choked.
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 12:20	#111
prasanth BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ernakulam Posts: 70 Thanked: Once	Removing the economic aspects and battery, are the engine components affected by short runs. Say the vehicle would only run once or twice a week and that too short runs like 5-6 kms. And also what about the non-crdi ones?
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 12:50	#112
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	From what I have read & what even I think, you should go for the 1.4 CRDi Btw did you check/TD the 1.4 Auto?
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 15:03	#114
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	coughar check the post by ImmortalZ on first page In short on a smaller runs the engine doesnt warm up to the ideal working temperature which has its impact on the longer run.
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 15:10	#115
archat68 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kolkata Posts: 897 Thanked: 619 Times	The engine experiences the maximum stress when a car cold-started. Because it takes certain amount of time for lubricants to to reach every nooks and crannies of the engine. That is why you should never rev your engine hard when its not sufficiently warm. Also if you put load on the engine till you warm up - you stress the engine. With frequent starts and stops your battery will wear first - as it will not get sufficient charge in the short run period. Also, in the short run period the engine does not gets a chance to achieve various RPM - which is also detrimental to the engine in long run.
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 18:57	#119
pachchu BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 140 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	few myth vs fact questions I had in mind - not covered until now - it would help if somebody could answer these as well is it a myth or fact that diesel engines emit more pollutants than petrol engine? let's consider the latest CRDI engines for this discussion sake. what is the reason for cheaper diesel in India? Is Govt subsidizing it for farmers (to run tubewells) or is this a trend worldwide in capitalist countries also?
	() Thanks