When is Mahindra launching the Scorpio Eagle 2.2?....EDIT Now Launched

Country Road · 10th August 2007, 10:48

If Feb/Mar is a peak sale season, so is the month of Sept and the festive season. But going by what is happening in the automobile sector things could be looked at differently. The market is witnessing a slow down, but this has not made the companies postpone launches. Infact as per todays newspaper those companies who have launched new offerings during this period have gained while others have witnessed degrowth. Muruti with Zen & SX4. Honda with Civic. GM with Spark etc. if I were a head of a company that has seen degrowth for the last 2 qts. then I would launch a new product ASAP and not wait till Feb/Mar next year (PROVIDED i HAVE A NEW PRODUCT READY), as with the help of this new product I could acheive my targets for the year. Instead of showing loss. The earlier I launch the new product the better for me. Just another side to the argument.

HSV · 10th August 2007, 11:20

Just to remind you guys, the current model (with the 43 changes

) came out around March 2006. So does that give us a clue or does that confuse us further, because all news articles have been crying hoarse for a September 07 release - latest one being the article in Financial Express on 21st June 07?

Monster_BHP · 13th August 2007, 17:42

Does anyone think the new Engine will be a good one? I doubt that it will be a reliable work horse. Because getting 180bhp and close to 300NM torque out of a 5cylinder 3000CC engine, sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo.

Any engine with too much turbo and artificially pumped in like that will have a low life cycle because the rings, piston and valves will get worn out pretty fast. This is the reason people go for more cylinders to increase the power out put safely and reliably. An naturally aspired engine has far more life than a artificially aspiring engine and this corresponds to the power of the turbo. More powerful the turbo less the engine life.

Even if it does get realized we would have to wait for at least a year or 40,000 km which ever come first to see the troubles in the design.

Moreover is it only me or do people see that Safaris and Scorpios aesthetically age very fast. Even a 2004model has dull paint and worn out plastic side fenders. They all age pretty fast compared to the Maruthis and the Japanese stuff that looks ever young even after 6 or 7 years.

anandpadhye · 13th August 2007, 18:09

You said 5 cylinders???

Isn't the popular config 4 in line or V6 (to balance the forces and optimize space)?

5 is odd (I mean literally as well as in the context of engine...)

Monster_BHP · 13th August 2007, 18:24

I guess it would be 4cylinder, i was having the lorry engines in my head which i get to see now and then in my company. More over when its 3000cc i assumed it could be a 5cylinder.

However the Maruthi 800 was a 3 cylinder engine and it had no balancing problems.

w 12 · 14th August 2007, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster_BHP

sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo.

I dont think so.

All Diesel Engines have high compression ratios visavis petrol engines. The Diesel Engines are also known as compression ignition engines, as the air fuel mixture is ignited by compression and not by spark.

Typical compreesion ratio in any diesel engines is 18+ and diesel engines are relatively more expensive to build for the same reason. And they will last you a long long time. ( heavy duty diesels in earthmovers, ships, Trains, battle tanks , Trucks are all turbos )

dadu · 14th August 2007, 10:01

For a CRDI engine minimum pressure required to pump in fuel is at 1600 bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w 12

The Diesel Engines are also known as compression ignition engines, as the air fuel mixture is ignited by compression and not by spark.

directinjection · 14th August 2007, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

For a CRDI engine minimum pressure required to pump in fuel is at 1600 bars.

That's usually the pressure in second generation CRDI systems like those found in Safari Dicor and Swift. The first generation CRDI engines had lower pressure while third and fourth generation CRDIs have higher pressure. The latest CRDIs have pressure exceeding 2000 bars.

untamed.sailor · 14th August 2007, 15:37

[quote=Monster_BHP;531239]Does anyone think the new Engine will be a good one? I doubt that it will be a reliable work horse. Because getting 180bhp and close to 300NM torque out of a 5cylinder 3000CC engine, sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo.

Any engine with too much turbo and artificially pumped in like that will have a low life cycle because the rings, piston and valves will get worn out pretty fast. This is the reason people go for more cylinders to increase the power out put safely and reliably. An naturally aspired engine has far more life than a artificially aspiring engine and this corresponds to the power of the turbo. More powerful the turbo less the engine life.

I am sorry, but i dont understand that what is meant by too much turbo and artificially pumped in. An engine is fitted with a turbocharger to increase the air charge ratio for the combustion,which in turn increases the maximum amount of fuel burnt per cycle.By putting a turbocharger we have a positive gain in terms of power to weight ratio,reduction in s.f.o.c,reduced initial engine cost and increased reliability and reduced maintenance costs which would have been otherwise because of less exacting combustion process and scavenging efficiency of engine.The turbocharger helps in increasing cycle efficiency by utilising waste heat recovery from exhaust gases.
Also the life of engine and the wear n tear associated with it depends upon maximum mechanical and thermal stresses developed in components for that particular engine,which in turn depend upon type of material,its thickness and cooling arrangements.If turbocharger a.k.a turbo has been incorporated since the design stage and birth of engine,there is no reason that we should worry about the reliability of engine,as designers would have taken every factor into consideration regarding maximum fuel which can be burnt and to keep piston speed within safe limits.On the other hand if modification and addition of turbo has been done after market,there are chances that maximum fuel burning limits and scavenge efficiency could be affected.Please correct me,if i am wrong.

untamed.sailor · 14th August 2007, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

For a CRDI engine minimum pressure required to pump in fuel is at 1600 bars.

I dont understand what is relation between compression ratio and the maximum pressure of fuel injection i.e. 1600 bar as quoted earlier.The compression ratio for a particular engine is designed on the basis of its starting conditions i.e. atmospheric temperature,the type of preheating for an engine and temperature of fuel. This is because when an engine is started initially,the compression should be suitable to raise the temperature of air to self ignition temperature of the particular fuel being burnt in engine. e.g. The boat engines being used in cold climates have compression ratio in excess of 22:1.
On the other hand fuel injection pressure will determine the atomization inside combustion chamber and thorough mixing of fuel with evenly spaced air .

dadu · 14th August 2007, 16:21

There is no relation to the compression ratio but diesel ignites since its pumped at a high pressure, through fine nozzle's (injectors). The pressure is required for the fine spray.

Quote:

Originally Posted by untamed.sailor

I dont understand what is relation between compression ratio and the maximum pressure of fuel injection i.e. 1600 bar as quoted earlier.The compression ratio for a particular engine is designed on the basis of its starting conditions i.e. atmospheric temperature,the type of preheating for an engine and temperature of fuel. This is because when an engine is started initially,the compression should be suitable to raise the temperature of air to self ignition temperature of the particular fuel being burnt in engine. e.g. The boat engines being used in cold climates have compression ratio in excess of 22:1.
On the other hand fuel injection pressure will determine the atomization inside combustion chamber and thorough mixing of fuel with evenly spaced air .

maxbhp · 16th August 2007, 08:21

I just happpened to see a Scorpio with a 'M2.2l' badge instead of the regular 2.2crde , any one seen similar ones ?

wonderboy · 16th August 2007, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxbhp

I just happpened to see a Scorpio with a 'M2.2l' badge instead of the regular 2.2crde , any one seen similar ones ?

Regular is 2.6CRde and not 2.2 CRDe my friend.

dinar · 16th August 2007, 10:06

maxbhp..where did you see this vehicle..are you sure it was M2.2l..and not M2di...the bolero engined scorpio... and ways there is no 2.2crde,it's 2.6crde.

maxbhp · 16th August 2007, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderboy

Regular is 2.6CRde and not 2.2 CRDe my friend.

My mistake, anyway I will keep my eyes open for them and get the snaps as soon as possible

10th August 2007, 10:48	#136
Country Road BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 153 Thanked: Once	If Feb/Mar is a peak sale season, so is the month of Sept and the festive season. But going by what is happening in the automobile sector things could be looked at differently. The market is witnessing a slow down, but this has not made the companies postpone launches. Infact as per todays newspaper those companies who have launched new offerings during this period have gained while others have witnessed degrowth. Muruti with Zen & SX4. Honda with Civic. GM with Spark etc. if I were a head of a company that has seen degrowth for the last 2 qts. then I would launch a new product ASAP and not wait till Feb/Mar next year (PROVIDED i HAVE A NEW PRODUCT READY), as with the help of this new product I could acheive my targets for the year. Instead of showing loss. The earlier I launch the new product the better for me. Just another side to the argument.
	() Thanks

10th August 2007, 11:20	#137
HSV BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 327 Thanked: Once	Just to remind you guys, the current model (with the 43 changes ) came out around March 2006. So does that give us a clue or does that confuse us further, because all news articles have been crying hoarse for a September 07 release - latest one being the article in Financial Express on 21st June 07?
	() Thanks

13th August 2007, 17:42	#138
Monster_BHP BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: chennai Posts: 190 Thanked: 30 Times View My Garage	Does anyone think the new Engine will be a good one? I doubt that it will be a reliable work horse. Because getting 180bhp and close to 300NM torque out of a 5cylinder 3000CC engine, sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo. Any engine with too much turbo and artificially pumped in like that will have a low life cycle because the rings, piston and valves will get worn out pretty fast. This is the reason people go for more cylinders to increase the power out put safely and reliably. An naturally aspired engine has far more life than a artificially aspiring engine and this corresponds to the power of the turbo. More powerful the turbo less the engine life. Even if it does get realized we would have to wait for at least a year or 40,000 km which ever come first to see the troubles in the design. Moreover is it only me or do people see that Safaris and Scorpios aesthetically age very fast. Even a 2004model has dull paint and worn out plastic side fenders. They all age pretty fast compared to the Maruthis and the Japanese stuff that looks ever young even after 6 or 7 years.
	() Thanks

13th August 2007, 18:09	#139
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,309 Times	You said 5 cylinders??? Isn't the popular config 4 in line or V6 (to balance the forces and optimize space)? 5 is odd (I mean literally as well as in the context of engine...)
	() Thanks

13th August 2007, 18:24	#140
Monster_BHP BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: chennai Posts: 190 Thanked: 30 Times View My Garage	I guess it would be 4cylinder, i was having the lorry engines in my head which i get to see now and then in my company. More over when its 3000cc i assumed it could be a 5cylinder. However the Maruthi 800 was a 3 cylinder engine and it had no balancing problems.
	() Thanks

14th August 2007, 15:37	#144
untamed.sailor Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bhopal Posts: 2 Thanked: 0 Times	[quote=Monster_BHP;531239]Does anyone think the new Engine will be a good one? I doubt that it will be a reliable work horse. Because getting 180bhp and close to 300NM torque out of a 5cylinder 3000CC engine, sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo. Any engine with too much turbo and artificially pumped in like that will have a low life cycle because the rings, piston and valves will get worn out pretty fast. This is the reason people go for more cylinders to increase the power out put safely and reliably. An naturally aspired engine has far more life than a artificially aspiring engine and this corresponds to the power of the turbo. More powerful the turbo less the engine life. I am sorry, but i dont understand that what is meant by too much turbo and artificially pumped in. An engine is fitted with a turbocharger to increase the air charge ratio for the combustion,which in turn increases the maximum amount of fuel burnt per cycle.By putting a turbocharger we have a positive gain in terms of power to weight ratio,reduction in s.f.o.c,reduced initial engine cost and increased reliability and reduced maintenance costs which would have been otherwise because of less exacting combustion process and scavenging efficiency of engine.The turbocharger helps in increasing cycle efficiency by utilising waste heat recovery from exhaust gases. Also the life of engine and the wear n tear associated with it depends upon maximum mechanical and thermal stresses developed in components for that particular engine,which in turn depend upon type of material,its thickness and cooling arrangements.If turbocharger a.k.a turbo has been incorporated since the design stage and birth of engine,there is no reason that we should worry about the reliability of engine,as designers would have taken every factor into consideration regarding maximum fuel which can be burnt and to keep piston speed within safe limits.On the other hand if modification and addition of turbo has been done after market,there are chances that maximum fuel burning limits and scavenge efficiency could be affected.Please correct me,if i am wrong.
	() Thanks

16th August 2007, 08:21	#147
maxbhp Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: C C K Posts: 1,382 Thanked: 89 Times View My Garage	I just happpened to see a Scorpio with a 'M2.2l' badge instead of the regular 2.2crde , any one seen similar ones ?
	() Thanks

16th August 2007, 10:06	#149
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	maxbhp..where did you see this vehicle..are you sure it was M2.2l..and not M2di...the bolero engined scorpio... and ways there is no 2.2crde,it's 2.6crde.
	() Thanks