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Old 15th July 2022, 15:30   #1021
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts View Post
The Urban Cruiser Hyryder (Strong Hybrid + eCVT) in Blue colour is available to view at Lakozy Toyota Malad, if any Mumbai BHPian is interested.
Just returned from there. The battery was extremely low when I finished checking the car at around 2.30 p.m. and so the sunroof, digital display, boot and other battery dependent functionalities were non operational. Please keep that in mind before heading there today. It will be in Malad showroom today and tomorrow.
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Old 16th July 2022, 18:57   #1022
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

Should I buy these new strong hybrids or the nexon ev max? My daily drive is close to 85 km, 6 days a week.

I personally do not like the fact that, Hyrider is sharing most of it's parts with new Baleno and Breeza. Lacks the uniqueness needed for a new car.
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Old 16th July 2022, 19:54   #1023
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by anilntny View Post
Should I buy these new strong hybrids or the nexon ev max? My daily drive is close to 85 km, 6 days a week.

I personally do not like the fact that, Hyrider is sharing most of it's parts with new Baleno and Breeza. Lacks the uniqueness needed for a new car.
Depends on whether you want a 4.0 metre compact SUV (Nexon EV) or 4.3 metre mid size SUV (Hyryder, Grand Vitara, Creta). you will get a bigger SUV at same or lower price than Nexon EV if you go for these mid SUVs. if you take hybrid variant you will get excellent mileage too at 25 KMPL plus

Lastly if you donít like some accessories in Grand Vitara being same as in Brezza, then how does Nexon become a better option given itís actually from the Brezza segment the whole car not just some gizmos being same

Lastly if I were you I would seriously worry about going for Nexon EV max given the range limitations. even in max real world range I gather is more like 200 km. with your daily commute being 85, you will pretty much need to charge it daily and Outstation trips will be a challenge too.
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Old 16th July 2022, 20:35   #1024
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by anilntny View Post
Should I buy these new strong hybrids or the nexon ev max? My daily drive is close to 85 km, 6 days a week.

I personally do not like the fact that, Hyrider is sharing most of it's parts with new Baleno and Breeza. Lacks the uniqueness needed for a new car.
I would suggest the Nexon or Astor full EV for your usage. High local usage is the ideal option for EVs.
You can charge it at home and happily drive around. Install a solar panel and your running costs will decrease even more.
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Old 16th July 2022, 21:54   #1025
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by anilntny View Post
Should I buy these new strong hybrids or the nexon ev max? My daily drive is close to 85 km, 6 days a week.
From your profile it seems you are driving a Captur, there's no use case scenario to upgrade to Nexon EV Max considering your car is fairly new. The Captur would have depreciated the most by now, the depreciation will be less going forward. The savings you will accrue a month will be hardly ₹15000, and if you are taking EMI to buy Nexon after selling the Captur (to find a buyer for Captur won't be easy I feel, may get a quote of ₹7-8 lakh) EMI itself will cross ₹15000! It will be a case of penny wise, pound foolish! It doesn't make any financial sense to be honest. If you are bored of the present car, then that's another matter.

Last edited by The Rationalist : 16th July 2022 at 22:01. Reason: Typo
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Old 17th July 2022, 00:00   #1026
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

So, apparently Toyota has built a capacity of 18k units pm for the Hyrider/ Vitara with 70% reserved for the Vitara. IMHO, the target (capacity taken as proxy) is rather ambitious. The Creta sells around 10 to 11k pm (last month was just under 14k though). Seltos sells another 8k pm. Taigun/ Kushaq clock 4 to 5k pm. Its difficult to imagine that the category will expand by 75%.

Management is hoping hybrids will expand the market. However, hybridization doesnít seem to have given the City any boost. It was selling ~3k pm prior to the launch of the hybrid and continues to clock similar volumes.

Current crop of mass market hybrids have some quirks such as battery occupying the boot and low head room in the rear. The appeal of these hybrids is just the mileage. This makes them rather niche. Immediate delivery as compared to six month wait for Creta might also make the Vitara more desirable, albeit temporarily. An AWD offering could be an interest trick though. We would need to hear about the pricing before calling this one a hit or miss.

On the whole, as things are its not looking too promising I am afraid. Initial buzz notwithstanding, Toyota/ Maruti will have done well even if they sell half the planned capacity.
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Old 17th July 2022, 03:39   #1027
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by schwartz View Post
So, apparently Toyota has built a capacity of 18k units pm for the Hyrider/ Vitara with 70% reserved for the Vitara. IMHO, the target (capacity taken as proxy) is rather ambitious. The Creta sells around 10 to 11k pm (last month was just under 14k though). Seltos sells another 8k pm. Taigun/ Kushaq clock 4 to 5k pm. Its difficult to imagine that the category will expand by 75%.

Management is hoping hybrids will expand the market. However, hybridization doesnít seem to have given the City any boost. It was selling ~3k pm prior to the launch of the hybrid and continues to clock similar volumes.
My two cents, it's an ambitious move but it all depends on the planning by the manufacturers.

As of right now, I am not sure how aggressive both Maruti & Toyota are going to be with Hyryder / Vitara. The response for the Hyryder seems strong but what's going to be the booking conversions into sales will only be evident after the launch. There key to success is Hybrid but if it's ridiculously priced, people will jump to the Korean or Indian diesels.

What Toyota & MS needs, is to exploit the heavy waiting periods for Carens/Seltos/Creta/Scorpion & XUV700.

Then again, the K15C is an extremely underwhelming engine atleast in the way it has been tuned for XL6 & Brezza and if that continues, I am sceptical if the consumers will be willing to pay big money for the same.

Furthermore, I am confused regarding how will this car be positioned as Brezza has taken the 9-16 Lakh range. If Toyota / MS really pushes it beyond 20, It will be a challenge for the manufacturers as Toyota is selling Innova for 22 Lakhs (I know it's a different segment targeting different buyers but still there will be cross shopping thanks to the immense respect & credibility which the "Innova" moniker has built over the years.)

Either MS being typical going ahead with their mass market strategy will let Brezza get cannibalised by the Vitara or if they actually try to push in the car at higher prices I am not sure if MS has the consumer pull for cars above the 15 Lakh mark as they have been failing to breach that over the years.

Moreover, both the Indians & Koreans are very aggressive with their product placement hence if MS is not able to price Hybrid affordably, the diesels of the competition will take the cake.

Also, people with higher running especially in the Semi Urban environment would be a little sceptical picking up a Hybrid owing to reliability of the same which is largely unknown but then again the same coming from Maruti & Toyota would instill trust as both are renowned for their reliability.

This game is going to be immensely interesting, if Toyota/MS legit gets the price for the Hybrid right, I would gladly get one of them home. For me & I am sure a lot of others, it all comes down to the pricing! I hope Toyota doesn't becomes too greedy this time around else it's another disaster in the making just like the Yaris.
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Old 17th July 2022, 06:25   #1028
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by schwartz View Post
So, apparently Toyota has built a capacity of 18k units pm for the Hyrider/ Vitara with 70% reserved for the Vitara. IMHO, the target (capacity taken as proxy) is rather ambitious. .
Just curious, if they have repurposed existing capacity that was lying idle or have they created new capacity?

The capacity utilization will have an inverse correlation with the pricing.

If they have a priority to utilize this capacity, we can expect some interesting pricing.

HyRyder strong Hybrid should be mostly an urban phenomenon, as that is where the the mileage benefits become substantial, but the response will be largely determined by the differntial pricing over the non/mild hybrid. If the differential pricing is like that of Honda City Hybrid, it should at best be a lukewarm response.

Last edited by ajayc123 : 17th July 2022 at 06:28.
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Old 17th July 2022, 10:20   #1029
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by SKC-auto View Post
That's false marketing, their own specs say 177V and 4.3 AH battery which equals to 0.76kwh, has a battery similar to Honda city eHev, and 4x smaller battery than Ather 450X.

If pure EV mode gives 25kmpl using 0.76kwh battery, someone can do Kashmir-Kanyakumari on an Ather in single charge. Since it is Toyota, no one bothers, this too shall pass like their "Self Charging" campaign.
This!

I found some documentation from UK on Suzuki S-Cross battery capacity and it mentions 0.84 kWh lithium-ion battery pack, so its probably in that 0.76 - 0.85 range. No way this will travel 25 km, unless you find a downhill which stretches that long. I would say if you are lucky you get maybe 4-5 kms.

I also think the top hybrid variant will be priced around Rs. 22 lakhs ex-showroom.

Last edited by inwester : 17th July 2022 at 10:36.
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Old 17th July 2022, 12:01   #1030
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Default Tata Nexon EV vs Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder (Strong hybrid)

To mods:

This thread is to compare a full electric vehicle, Tata Nexon EV (Gen 1 and Gen 2 aka Max) with Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder -Strong Hybrid version.

Since, both these vehicles are treated in same category in latest ev policy of Haryana Govt. and are eligible for same kind of benefits, I am starting this thread here in Electric Car forum. But mods can move to some other place if the comparison can serve readers better.

The Tata offerings are pure plug-in electric Suv's vis-a-vis Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder which is a self charging Hybrid SUV.
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Old 17th July 2022, 16:18   #1031
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Default Re: Tata Nexon EV vs Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder (Strong hybrid)

Hi guyz,

I need a bit of help and guidance here. I had booked Nexon EV Max in May before it's formal launch. This was based on information put up here on teambhp and also my sales contact at PMG Mohali Automobiles. Apparently there are only two Tata ev dealers in Punjab. The one mentioned above and the other in Ludhiana.

Now, in July, I am having second thoughts on buying new Tata. I just found out that Toyata has launched a new car, Urban Cruiser HYryder. I don't have all the details. Like

1. How much km the new Hyryder will cover in EV only mode

2. What is the size of Hyryder's battery compared to Nexon Max

3. Price of Nexon Maxx has been increased. My sales guy is yet to give me exact details. I will ut them here as soon I get them from him. But it could be in the range of 21-22 lacs.

Price of Hyrider is yet to be disclosed so can't say anything here.

4. Dealership experience or in case of Tata EV, it's the total experience of all Tata dealership accross country as u may need to charge your car anywhere in country


5. Safety issues in these new technology cars. As both cars have batteries. Just today, I saw a thread on Teambhp. On Nexon Ev catching fire.
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Old 17th July 2022, 16:30   #1032
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by inwester View Post
This!

I found some documentation from UK on Suzuki S-Cross battery capacity and it mentions 0.84 kWh lithium-ion battery pack, so its probably in that 0.76 - 0.85 range. No way this will travel 25 km, unless you find a downhill which stretches that long. I would say if you are lucky you get maybe 4-5 kms.

I also think the top hybrid variant will be priced around Rs. 22 lakhs ex-showroom.
1) correct battery capacity is 1.8 kWh in Maruti Grand Vitara / T Hyryder and not 0.84 kWh

2) yes Toyota Strong Hybrid tech has a pure EV mode of operation too unlike that in say Honda City. I am not sure what KMs they claim for GV/ H pure EV mode but suffice to say that wonít be large. What is not disputable though is the sizeable help to fuel efficiency in Strong Hybrids. From models already in Europe a 50% jump in mileage seems a very good estimate and hence 25 KMPL for GV / H is a distinct possibility.
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Old 17th July 2022, 18:01   #1033
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Default Re: Tata Nexon EV vs Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder (Strong hybrid)

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Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post

1. How much km the new Hyryder will cover in EV only mode

2. What is the size of Hyryder's battery compared to Nexon Max.
1. 2-3 km
2. 0.8kwh vs 40kwh
4. You do not need Tata for car charging, it could be a hit or miss if you want to rely on Tata dealership for charging.
5. EVs are safer, between the Nexon EV fire and today there would certainly be atleast 2 dozen petrol car fires which are not reported in news.

Ex:
https://www.thehansindia.com/telanga...hit-car-750709

https://www.thehansindia.com/news/ci...-in-hyd-751389
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Old 17th July 2022, 20:04   #1034
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Default Re: Maruti & Toyota's Creta-rivaling midsize SUV revealed - Urban Cruiser Hyryder

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Originally Posted by Carzilla View Post
1) correct battery capacity is 1.8 kWh in Maruti Grand Vitara / T Hyryder and not 0.84 kWh
Unless Maruti thinks we deserve better specs than global products, 0.84kwh is the correct battery capacity, 140V 6AH battery.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki...id-2022-review

Last edited by SKC-auto : 17th July 2022 at 20:06.
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Old 17th July 2022, 20:08   #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
Hi guyz,

I need a bit of help and guidance here. I had booked Nexon EV Max in May before it's formal launch. This was based on information put up here on teambhp and also my sales contact at PMG Mohali Automobiles. Apparently there are only two Tata ev dealers in Punjab. The one mentioned above and the other in Ludhiana.

Now, in July, I am having second thoughts on buying new Tata. I just found out that Toyata has launched a new car, Urban Cruiser HYryder. I don't have all the details. Like

1. How much km the new Hyryder will cover in EV only mode

2. What is the size of Hyryder's battery compared to Nexon Max

3. Price of Nexon Maxx has been increased. My sales guy is yet to give me exact details. I will ut them here as soon I get them from him. But it could be in the range of 21-22 lacs.

Price of Hyrider is yet to be disclosed so can't say anything here.

4. Dealership experience or in case of Tata EV, it's the total experience of all Tata dealership accross country as u may need to charge your car anywhere in country


5. Safety issues in these new technology cars. As both cars have batteries. Just today, I saw a thread on Teambhp. On Nexon Ev catching fire.
Answers to the questions
1) Hyryder / Grand Vitara is a Strong Hybrid so pure EV mode will be very small and is not the right metric to compare with an EV. most Strong Hybrids globally donít even have a pure EV mode though Toyota offers one due to their series cum parallel hybrid offering. Whatís the real advantage of Strong Hybrids is that the mileage sees more than 1.5x increase. This is achieved by mixing EV mode at various points in the journey especially when the acceleration ask is low. Toyota claims that in an average journey up to 40% of distance could get covered in EV mode and thatís what helps deliver mileage 1.5x

2) hyryder battery is 1.8 kWh vs 30 for Nexon EV and around 40 for EV Max but as explained above hardly the right comparison.

3) price of Hyryder / Suzuki Grand Vitara Strong hybrid is not out but could be potentially 20 plus ex showroom for the top variant. However they have low and mid variants too in Strong Hybrid powertrain which could be priced below Nexon EV Max by a good margin potentially.

4) Again apples to oranges comparison because Strong Hybrids donít need charging at all. Their battery self charges itself using regenerative charging and other means. Infact thatís one of the advantages of Strong hybrid that you are not impacted by the absensce of charging infra in the country - which is a serious problem- recently ET Auto went around Noida checking it the public chargers available worked and found none of the 6-7 they tested were working including the one at OEM workshop / dealership.

5) The fire issues are with pure EVs like Nexon EV or with some EV scooters not with hybrids which have much smaller batteries. Not to say that I think EV fires is a genuine worry either.

Hope this helps in some way in decision making

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKC-auto View Post
Unless Maruti thinks we deserve better specs than global products, 0.84kwh is the correct battery capacity, 140V 6AH battery.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki...id-2022-review
Ok we can revisit this once spec is officially out but reason I say 1.8 kWh is because
1) my friend at Toyota says this
2) seeing Suzuki hybrid battery size in global S Cross is not the right comparison because thatís based on the Suzuki Strong Hybrid System (SHS) - a Suzuki powertrain. On the other hand Hyryder and Grand Vitara is the first offspring of a collaboration of both in which the Strong hybrid powertrain has come from Toyota. So different powertrain entirely than S Cross and if you search you will find for instance Camry Strong Hybrid seems to have a 1.6 kWh battery, which is very close to the 1.8 kWh I am hearing for the Hyryder / Grand Vitara.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th July 2022 at 01:43. Reason: Merged consecutive posts
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