[achyutaghosh]

Originally Posted by umohan98

Toyota branded parts for Glanza and Urban Cruiser have been found to cost much more than their Maruti Branded siblings. There was a post on it on the forum.

Now that Toyota is manufacturing the car, will it be the reverse? Maruti branded parts being more expensive?

[umohan98]

Originally Posted by achyutaghosh

Now that Toyota manufactures the car, will it be the reverse? Maruti branded parts being more expensive?

The car, on the whole, is based on a Suzuki Platform, built with Suzuki components and supplied by Suzuki suppliers. The Mild Hybrid Powertrain is also a complete Suzuki. So, for them, Maruti spares may be priced lower.

The Hybrid Powertrain, on the other hand, are Toyota-derived parts. I think these spares will be much more expensive compared to the mild hybrid powertrain. But how Maruti and Toyota will price the parts, I am not able to make out. With its mass-market appearance, Maruti may have cheaper parts again, but the actual picture will be clear only post-launch.

[volkman10]

New info. on pricing speculations:

Entry-level Toyota Hyryder Strong-hybrid to cost under ₹ 20 Lakh on-road.

Top end would be ~ ₹ 22 lakhs on-road.

based on all the details available, that the compact SUV’s entry-level strong-hybrid variant will become the most affordable option of its kind in India.

Toyota will be offering the choice of the strong hybrid powertrain from the one-above-base ‘S’ trim. We expect this exact variant to be priced at Rs 15 lakh (ex-showroom) with a premium of Rs 2.5 lakh over the corresponding petrol-automatic variant

The one-below-top ‘G’ variant of the Toyota compact SUV with the strong hybrid powertrain should have an on-road price of just around Rs 20 lakh with an expected ex-showroom price tag of Rs 17 lakh.

The top-spec Toyota Hyryder strong hybrid ‘V’ variant is likely to cost the same as the fully loaded Honda City Hybrid.

Link

[kushagra452]

The pricing announcements are taking so long that I almost forgot about these SUVs. Seems the action will return to the respective Team BHP threads only after the 'introductory price' reveal. Till then its time to zzzzzzzz.....

[yashg]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Top end would be ~ ₹ 22 lakhs on-road.

If the top end strong hybrid will indeed be around 22 L OTR then it will be a killer pricing. At that price, the tiny boot would be a worthy tradeoff.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by volkman10

The top-spec Toyota Hyryder strong hybrid ‘V’ variant is likely to cost the same as the fully loaded Honda City Hybrid.

Couple of points:

- 4 cylinder engine in Honda City Hybrid vs 3 cylinder engine in HyRyder
- ADAS in Honda City Hybrid vs ???? Does HyRyder have an equivalent?

What would justify the price parity ?

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Couple of points:

- 4 cylinder engine in Honda City Hybrid vs 3 cylinder engine in HyRyder
- ADAS in Honda City Hybrid vs ???? Does HyRyder have an equivalent?

What would justify the price parity ?

Can be justified by -

• Better ground clearance.
• SUV stance and looks.
• Better interior space (subjective).
• Better mileage (needs to be checked in real world scenario).
• Service network (Maruti wins hands down, no idea about Toyota though).

As far as the 3 pot engine is concerned, if it does the job, I don't see a reason to complain. ADAS is good to have but it's in nascent stage in India. It needs to prove itself in Indian traffic conditions.

[ajayc123]

Interesting inputs.

Does extra ground clearance and SUV stance cost extra money to the manufacturer ?

Does removing the ADAS save money for manufacturer ?

Does putting a 3 cylinder instead of 4 cylinder save money for manufacturer ?

Based on these points my mind is finding it hard to justify the cost parity.

But of course, there might be nuances, that cannot be comprehended by such comparisons, so I am still not convinced, so far.

[itsmeparvathy9]

the pricing of the V Hybrid variant of the Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder will be mostly at par with the Honda City Hybrid, so it seems justified considering it is getting the Yaris-Cross e-CVT transmission and hybrid setup.

Moreover, the SUV looks and stance in itself are a selling point in India, so maybe a premium for that too.

But considering the engine power and performance, Hyryder has a maximum power of 115.56 PS and maximum torque of 141 nm, whereas the City Hybrid a maximum power of 126 PS and maximum torque of 253 nm, making the City hybrid much more powerful and engaging to drive as well. The City hybrid can do 0-100 in 10 seconds whereas the Urban Cruiser Hyryder will definitely take a second or two more.

So yes, maybe from an engine and performance standpoint, the Hyryder may be overpriced as compared to the City Hybrid, but prices aren't out yet, maybe Toyota may surprise us all!

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Interesting inputs.

Does extra ground clearance and SUV stance cost extra money to the manufacturer ?

Not that, but controlling the body roll, etc should cost the extra money. Plus, SUVs have traditionally been more expensive than their sedan counterparts! E.g.- The Ciaz and S-Cross or Creta and Verna or even the Venue and Aura (For comparable variants)!

Does removing the ADAS save money for manufacturer ?

The thing is, to launch such features in India, one needs to know that ADAS etc have to be tuned for our country specifically. I am sure Maruti has started working on ADAS systems for India and might debut them on the Grand Vitara facelift or the upcoming 7-seater or the YY8 EV or maybe something else!
But since they will have to put a lot more effort than what has been done in the systems for developed countries.

Does putting a 3 cylinder instead of 4 cylinder save money for manufacturer ?

No but there have been instances where three cylinder engines are far better than 4 cylinders! Plus, since fuel efficiency on the 3 cyinders is easier to exract, a 3 cylinder makes more sense.
Also, since the engine is a direct lift from a global Toyota, it is bound to be more expensive!

Based on these points my mind is finding it hard to justify the cost parity.

But of course, there might be nuances, that cannot be comprehended by such comparisons, so I am still not convinced, so far.

To be convinced or not convinced is something one decides on his own!
There are 10k+ people who buy the Punch over the better Magnite, Kiger etc and 12k+ who buy the Nexon over the better Brezza, Venue etc. There are 30k+ who buy the WagonR and Swift over the Celerio and Baleno respectively.
I as an individual can not justify purchase decisions of any of these 60k+ people because I find them overpriced and/or poor products. But then, those with the need, have bought them for a reason and they have their own.

I as an individual would buy the Honda City over any car under 25 lakhs just because I find it to be the best value proposition. But then, the City barely sells 10% of the segment as a whole and more overpriced and less VFM/less safe/less technologically-enabled products (Read SUVs) find more homes, despite higher pricing.

As a different individual, I find nothing wrong with the Grand Vitara's pricing and there are many who feel the same way as I do. Hence, I believe you and your sub-conscious bias towards your needs/wants is the only one who can convince you to justify the cost for you.

[ajayc123]

I agree that there are instances of 3 cylinder implementations being better than 4 cylinder. But I would find it harder to have instances of 3 cylinder Toyota hybrid powertrain to be better than a 4 cylinder Toyota hybrid or Honda hybrid powertrain.

Needless to say, we are just at the day one of strong hybrid, and the options will increase, and the price premiums will reduce with time.

We will be thankful to the early adopters, to lay the foundation for market to grow, and unlock value for the next set of adopters.

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Couple of points:

- 4 cylinder engine in Honda City Hybrid vs 3 cylinder engine in HyRyder
- ADAS in Honda City Hybrid vs ???? Does HyRyder have an equivalent?

What would justify the price parity ?

"City Hybrid" cannot be driven on pure EV mode. whereas the HyRyder and Vitara could be, which means the following.

The city has ~ <1 KWH battery pack. The battery gets charged by the engine and the power from the same would be used to propel the vehicle. [Very similar to Prius]

On the other hand, the Hyryder/Vitara could be driven in EV mode, which means, they should be having a battery pack of ~6-8 KWH or more. [Similar to Prius Prime] If the battery is fully charged, with one liter of petrol, one can drive 25KM on pure EV + ~18-20KM on petrol, which realistically would be around 40+KMPL. But this is not how the testing is done in india, hence, the 27-28 Kmpl number from ARAI.

In reality, The smaller the battery,

1. The more the gasoline engine would be used.
2. The engine might not be on Atkinson cycle. If it is, it could be imported adding to costs.
3. More cycles [charge/discharge] on the battery
4. The boost from the Motor will be less.

Whereas with a bigger battery +ECVT from toyota,

1. the power delivery would be much better without a compromise on FE.
2. Less cycles on battery
3. More regenerated power could be stored for later use and more power

In short, we shouldn't be comparing both. The pricing for Honda is directly dependent on the cost of motor/s + battery pack imported. Whereas Suzuki and Toyota are procuring these parts * locally *, hence a discounted pricing for a bigger battery + motor setup at this guessed price point. Battery chemistry is another big factor in pricing. So, there are too many unknowns at this point.

To localize, they need sufficient demand. it could be possible for them to undercut these prices as they need volumes. Once they have more models, with their parts sharing platforms, they will start price games.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by Mustang_Boss

In reality, The smaller the battery, [list=1]
[*]The engine might not be on Atkinson cycle. If it is, it could be imported adding to costs.

Just to comment on this specific point, it appears that the Honda City also uses the Atkinson cycle as per this source.

The hybrid version of the City boasts of cutting-edge technology, all with the aim of delivering maximum fuel efficiency. Honda's strong hybrid uses two powerful electric motors paired to an Atkinson Cycle 1.5-litre, four-cylinder petrol engine. One of the motors mainly functions as an electric generator, while the other handles propulsion. The system is programmed to keep the engine operating at its peak efficiency, somewhere around 2,000rpm. Keeping the engine working at lower RPM is crucial because by the time the engine reaches 4,000rpm, it could be using twice as much fuel.

Link

Whereas with a bigger battery +ECVT from toyota

As for the battery capacity of Toyota eCVT, the specs on the website are not saying much, but I will be happy to know the technical aspects of the capacity.

Actually I am compelled to compare with limited information available, to shape up my understanding, since I am agnostic to the form factor Sedan vs SUV, but other factors like the 3 cyl / 4 cyl etc seem to be of concern to me. Might be too early, but real world data will start emerging over the next one or two years, and provide additional inputs towards decision making.

Information provided by you is quite helpful for sure.

[saurabh041086]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Interesting inputs.

Does extra ground clearance and SUV stance cost extra money to the manufacturer ?

Does removing the ADAS save money for manufacturer ?

Does putting a 3 cylinder instead of 4 cylinder save money for manufacturer ?

Based on these points my mind is finding it hard to justify the cost parity.

But of course, there might be nuances, that cannot be comprehended by such comparisons, so I am still not convinced, so far.

Cannot comment about other things but for starter try searching for tyre prices for sizes available in City/HR.

[Eddy]

We can break our heads on pricing logic, but above a certain threshhold the pricing depends simply on what the OEM thinks it can get away with