[SR-71]

@Mods, is there an official team-bhp test drive planned? I see a post in carwale about a test drive next week and a commitment to post the review by December 6th. I would be nice to read the typical unbiased review from TeamBHP. It would be interesting to know

• How well this car handles
• Is it powered adequately for its size
• Its NVH characteristics (specially how quiet it's in the cabin)

If the car handles well for its size, rides without jiggling around and the cabin noise is as decently insulated as it's in the Fortuner, then it may be a pretty good and cheaper alternative for the Fortuner 4x2s, IMHO.

Slightly OT, a request to our TeamBHP official reviewers - It would be nice if the cabin silence is measured and posted as part of official reviews. Reviews typically do mention if the NVH is good or bad, but they really do not tell how well the cabin is insulated from outside noise for cars with good NVH. It makes a pretty big difference in a noisy country like ours and its one of the key points I am considering in my next upgrade.

[Turbo Head]

That's a huge upgrade from the current generation Innova Crysta (except it's 6 seater), just wish Toyota price it well. Even bigger question will be the delivery and availability of the vehicle. If I book this one, then it will be 4th car in a row awaiting endlessly for delivery (previous ones are ScorpioN, XUV700 and BYD Atto 3, all booked in 2022).

I guess delivery time should also be an important criteria and should be discussed/considered in all reviews for impatient buyers like me to have better clarity and help in buying decision. As waiting for ages not only defeats the purpose of buying the vehicle but also deteriorates the ownership pleasure of the new vehicle.

[careind]

After looking at multiple videos available of the Hycross Zenix (Indonesia) and Hycross (India), I get a strong feeling that the sheet metal density is way lesser in the indian model.
Is it just my imagination or some of you out there also felt it?

[Hayek]

Very interesting product, and one that finally makes the Innova acceptable for personal self drive use. I have of course travelled more in Innovas than any car I don’t own - and while the rear seat is acceptable when driven carefully and smoothly, my own test drive experience early last year showed that it rides terribly when driven even with a remote degree of enthusiasm. I drove the Mahindra Thar in Goa this month, and it was far better to drive than my Innova test experience. If this can come anywhere near the Carnival in terms of driving comfort, it will be a real winner. Pricing is likely to cross the lower level Carnival models for the top end - but that is acceptable given a Hybrid power train.

Agree that I would have loved a ZX with bench seats in the middle row - Captain seats don’t make sense at all, and one should not be forced to give up on having a proper 5 seater with luggage room to get 6 air bags and a Sun-roof. Will likely go out and test drive it even though I am not going to be in the market for a car for at least 2 more years

[Turbohead]

Do they still have the lousy rule where corporates or businesses are not allowed to purchase the 8 seater version?

Any idea why there was such a rule for the previous Innova Crysta?

[Comrade]

Hycross will be high on my list as our next family car if I can get ZX with middle bench or VX with six airbags. It's just giving more choices to customer. Right now, I don't see the combination I want.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by DCEite

The Innova Hycross is a blessing for Delhi-NCR folks who until now have to think twice before investing their money in petrol powered mid-sized SUVs given the rising fuel costs and feeble Fuel efficiency figures of such vehicles.

Well the fuel efficiency savings of a hybrid won't be beneficial if the purchase cost itself is high at 35 to 40 lakhs.

Even if the petrol mid sized SUV priced at 20L gives a dismal 5kmpl efficiency, you still can drive atleast 80K KMs for free with the saved 20lakhs, almost till the car gets old.

[Adorablejim]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

The Diesel Innova delivers 345 NM torque. The petrol motor is the Hycross Hybrid delivers 190 NM torque. So the difference in torque delivered from the IC engines is indeed 190NM.

I was mentioning about the torque deficit of the Hycross when compared to the diesel Crysta and not the torque of the Crysta diesel engine itself. There is a deficit of 155 NM in torque for the Hycross when compared to the 2.4 L manual diesel Crysta which develops 343 NM of torque, while the gap widens for the automatic diesel Crysta

For a Hybrid, one cannot consider the combined power output and torque as the system decides the best combination of the output either from the engine or motor or both combined for maximum efficiency. Also the diesel engines irrespective of the vehicles whether it is Crysta or Creta are tuned for driveability and maximum efficiency; not for outright performance.

ARAI certified mileage for a Crysta Diesel is 15.6 Kmpl while user reported mileage for a Crysta Diesel is 12.67 Kmpl. As a point of reference, the certified mileage for HYRYDER Hybrid is 27.97 Kmpl while the real world mileage is around 20 Kmpl which is a delta of around 8 Kmpl for a vehicle with a kerb weight of 1295 Kg. Considering the certified mileage of Hycross at 21.1 Kmpl, what would be the real life mileage of the Hycross Hybrid with a kerb weight of around 1800 Kg. Even if we assume a delta of 8 Kmpl for the Hycross, it translates to a real life figure of 13 Kmpl. Now, considering the on-road cost of the Hycross hybrid which according to some dealers will be in the vicinity of 37 Lakhs or beyond, completely defeats the running cost advantage of the Hybrid over a diesel. I do not see any positive distinctive advantage for the Hybrid over the diesel.

My argument in the post was completely oriented towards the running cost advantage which the diesel has over the hybrid given the on-road pricing of the Hycross as well as the future petrol prices. I have absolutely no doubts about the comfort that the Hycross will offer being a monocoque compared to the body-on-frame Crysta.

Only 2.2% of the overall sales of the Innova are petrol while the rest are all for the diesels. Hence, Toyota has created a huge void for the prospetive customers who want to upgrade from a Crysta. Toyota has the technical prowess to make the diesel engine in Crysta compliant for RDE under BS6.2.

Even if we exclude the taxi sales of the Innova which is 11% of the total units sold, there is still another 87% of private customers who really want to own a Diesel Innova. My question is where would these customers migrate to.

[k_ajay]

Wow! That is a very desirable design on an MPV. Well done, Totoya! The exterior is beautiful and designed well, to shed a lot of that MPV-people carrier stance.

I'm not even the target market for this vehicle and I'm here wishing I could consider this for my next purchase. And that 'Blackish Ageha Glass Flakes' is a killer. Love it.
Pricing on-road in Bengaluru will be an insane 35L - 39L for sure, for the HYbrid variant.

Fantastic set of useful features and eye catching design. New Innova owners will have a ball of a time with this one (specially with the hybrid one which will deliver a better ROI on fuel economy). And one of those rare depreciating products that actually appreciates in value (thus far, at least).

Fabulous work by Toyota. They'll continue to laugh all the way to the bank.

Originally Posted by nks81

Which is the color which looks like blue in the photos?

It's called 'Blackish Ageha Glass Flakes'..

[KI07]

Originally Posted by Adorablejim

Even if we exclude the taxi sales of the Innova which is 11% of the total units sold, there is still another 87% of private customers who really want to own a Diesel Innova. My question is where would these customers migrate to.

Diesel Crysta was in demand for 2 things-
Mileage
Torque rush

Hybrid has similar or even more real world mileage when compared to a Diesel Crysta.

The 2.8L Innova was barely just below 11 seconds in a 0-100,
even though the HyCross has lower torque, if it still manages a 9.5ss or even a 10, It would be an all-rounder in my opinion.

These 2 things and the added comforts in the HyCross made me switch my booking from the T-Fort to the new HyCross!

[Adorablejim]

Originally Posted by KI07

Diesel Crysta was in demand for 2 things-
Mileage
Torque rush

Hybrid has similar or even more real world mileage when compared to a Diesel Crysta.

The 2.8L Innova was barely just below 11 seconds in a 0-100,
even though the HyCross has lower torque, if it still manages a 9.5ss or even a 10, It would be an all-rounder in my opinion.

These 2 things and the added comforts in the HyCross made me switch my booking from the T-Fort to the new HyCross!

Based on the customer feedback, Innova was popular for the following reasons

- Engine Refinement
- Comfort Quotient
- Car like to Drive
- Reliability that comes with Product Quality
- Maintenance and Service
- Brand Image
- Resale Value
- More than acceptable Fuel Efficiency for the size of the car
- The car feels planted on full load

A car cannot be badged an all-rounder based on the 0-100 Km sprint timing. I still doubt whether any Innova owner will buy it for an out-right performance. There is absolutely no torque rush in a Crysta but a very linear torque spread all the way from 1200 R.P.M to 3500 R.P.M.

If we go by the real world mileage of the Hyryder Hybrid, I am not sure whether the Hycross will even breach the 15 Kmpl mark in its real world mileage figures. Even if we consider 15 Kmpl as the real world mileage of the Hycross, it still does not make any economical sense considering the assumed on-road price of the car and the petrol prices.

[padmrajravi]

The Hycross can kill the 2WD Fortuner. The only reason to buy a 2WD Fortuner over this is the second row bench seats in the 6 airbag version. It looks as good or even better and has all the features one can hope for in this segment. Since majority of Fortuner buys opt for 2WD, I think this will make a dent in Fortuner numbers. Toyota will know this and hence top end variant pricing will probably be very close to 2WD petrol Fortuner prices.

[sumeethaldankar]

I am sure once the prices for the Innova Hycross is unveiled it would make the Urban Cruiser Hyrder feel more value for money. If one does not need the extra space the Urban Cruiser would be the one to go for if primary commute is withing the City. For the highway munchers I think the Innova will make more sense. I expect the Hycross to be priced much "higher" than any Innova they have sold earlier.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

The Hycross can kill the 2WD Fortuner. The only reason to buy a 2WD Fortuner over this is the second row bench seats in the 6 airbag version.

Most of the buyers who choose the Fortuner over the Innova, do it because of the TFort brand and to have a rugged SUV. Others choose the Crysta already.

This has held true across the 2 generations of Innova and Fortuners launched in our market. I don't think there would be any major sway in the numbers between these two unless the ever increasing TFort prices force the buyers to switch.

[84.monsoon]

I think a vast majority of the bookings would be for the ZX Hybrid variant of the Hycross. This is because the ZX is such a complete package with only the ADAS features missing.

With the phenomenal response that we can already see across all the social media channels for the Innova Hycross, the pricing and product line planning team must be working out all the strategies to maximize revenue ahead of the price unveil. It is a window of opportunity for Toyota to make bumper profits while the euphoria lasts and make up for years of lackluster performance in India due to paucity of models.

How will Toyota profit the most from this favourable market position? Will Toyota look for a margin-boost strategy by pricing the ZX(O) significantly higher than ZX (say 3 lakhs more), although the equipment difference is only ADAS and that should cost them far less to add?

M&M pulled this trick on the ScorpioN - they put almost all needed features on the Z8 variant, except a few things like sony 12 speaker sound system. They reserved these couple of thing for the Z8L and they then priced it a whopping 2 lakh more than the Z8. Not only that, they announced publicly that they will prioritize the delivery of Z8L. In fact to date, not a single non-Z8L has been delivered! A lot of fans booked that variant although they did not like the premium, just to get faster delivery.

Toyota could do this as well and force customers to go for ZX(O) by producing only that variant until they can cream the market at the top end of the customer base, who are willing to pay a big premium just be first in the queue for delivery. The demand for the Innova Hycross is so much that Toyota could keep on making just ZX (O) for months to come and many customers, who booked the lower variant ZX, may be willing to upgrade their booking just to get delivery. This is the reason I have booked ZX(O), even though I do not need the ADAS features, because I am pretty sure Toyota is going to prioritize it's production and delivery.

However, I do hope the delivery will happen after the budget. I feel the GST on hybrids will be reduced to somewhere between pure electric cars and petrol/diesel cars. It would be logical to do so as the hybrid like the Hycross (or Hyryder) consumes around 50% of the fuel consumed by an equivalent petrol or diesel car in city conditions. This would go a long way to make them price competitive and ultimately reduce our country 's oil import bill.

If the 43% GST is reduced to say 20%, the savings would translate to 4 lakhs ex-showroom for a car that costs 30 lakhs ex-showroom today. So if Toyota plans to price te top end Hycross at 30 lakhs ex-showroom today, they can reduce that to 26 lakhs, if they decide to pass on the full GST benefit to customer. This would translate to almost a 5 lakh price difference on-road! Toyota can then price the Hycross almost on par with the Crysta and deliver a while lot more value. All the while reducing he pollution in our cities and reducing our country's vulnerable economical.position on oil imports. A win-win-win indeed!