[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

I'll call them as luxury toys, in that case. They are not Rs 5L car. They cost almost 20L on-road. And they have just touched 3 - borderline 2, I'll say.

Have to agree with you there. The point is, the players (likes of Honda) that can set the market ablaze are not releasing anything good and the ones that release expensive toys (Korean twins) just don't take safety as a criteria at all.

[srinath34]

Originally Posted by SSD2122

Would that be curtains on the WR-V. I for one am considering the WR-V diesel or even the Amaze diesel. I have never been a diesel guy and want to have one if possible. With an SUV coming up, I fear WR-V may get the boot.

Very likely it will make an exit since its based on the Jazz platform and Jazz is already rumored to be likely discontinued from 2023 onwards.

Source: Rushlane - Jazz likely to get discontinued from 2023

[rajk15]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

There is no high time with Honda anymore. They are already on the bottom of the points table. This SUV will be no game changer as the market is already loaded with many options. And, this is most likely not happening, this is in all likelihood another Jimny moment from Honda. No one is really taking them seriously now.

The Honda fanboy i.e, myself politely disagrees. Quoting from another thread:

Originally Posted by rajk15

Greetings to fellow BHPians!
Recently in the "What Car?" thread, I have observed the absence of the presence of a well-packaged C-SUV in the 10-17L segment.

Concerns of the already existing vehicles in the segment-

1. Hyundai Creta/ Kia Seltos- safety concerns (3-star GNCAP rating)
2. MS S-Cross- Absence of a better TC unit. And perhaps the design both inside and outside needs an update.
3. MG Astor- Chinese connection concerns
4. Skoda Kushaq- EPC issue and now another undetected issue leading to breakdowns; lack of reliability
   VW Taigun[/b]- Same as Kushaq. Also, it demands a premium over the Kushaq and is comparatively less VFM.
5. Tata & Mahindra- Lack of reliability and guarantee of fuss-free ownership; Also the absence of a vehicle in Creta the segment
   
6. Note- Many people also do not prefer VAGs due to the assumed high maintenance and lack of reliability.

Similar concerns for the respective car manufacturers have been raised in lower segments as well.

Trends in the market-

Trends have changed and people now want a vehicle with a higher stance, high ground clearance, and a long list of features along with a good safety kit.
IMO, the priorities usually go as follows-
1. Safety
2. Reliability
1&2 are interchangeable.
3. Feature-rich
4. Driving Dynamics
3&4 are interchangeable.

Honda's chance to dominate the Indian car market-

For the past few years, Honda has been relying on the City and Amaze to help it run its shop in India. However, now is Honda's chance to dominate the Indian car market and easily reach number 2 and maybe in a few years number 1.

Their new cars could/should have-
1. Rock-solid Japanese reliability (Indians love Japs, they only go to the Koreans (and further) because of lack of options)
2. Good safety (4* GNCAP with a stable structure)
3. VFM offering (IMO, 50K premium for Honda is acceptable but not over that)

Honda's possible plan of action to conquer the segment-

1. Honda City based Creta rival
2. Honda City based Nexon rival
3. Honda City based Altroz/i20 rival
(Jazz & WR-V are lost causes)
4. Honda Amaze based Tiago rival
5. Honda Amaze based Punch rival

With this plan, Honda can easily take Hyundai's spot in the Indian car market. Also, the market has largely moved to petrols so the market is their strong area. I sincerely hope someone at Honda reads this and we have some good offerings in India.

They probably read @DicKy 's reply on the thread -

Originally Posted by DicKy

1. Bring the City hybrid.

2. Launch the new BRV with the engine options of the City.

1- Done ✅ (let's hope the price is right and it has success written all over it)
2- Case being discussed in this thread

Problems with cars in India & Honda's chance to dominate the Crossover segment

[thmsfrnnd]

With all the talks of Honda going the Ford way, it is indeed a relief to read this news as I recently purchased a 5th Gen Honda city. Phew!!!

Hope the new model does not have the same soft-spring suspension like that of the city.

[Dry Ice]

I’ll believe it when it hits our shores.

Forget press releases, Ford India was testing the EcoSport facelift weeks before HQ pulled the plug on India operations. So, hard to predict what’s cooking within the company.

[AnAntinspired]

Anyone notice how handsome this looks! After a sea of origami inspired car silhouettes with that ridiculous drl above/ headlights below trend, good to see a classic face that is muscular with neat lines.(I'd include the Kushaq and Taigun as the only other sub 25lakh cars with similar good looks)

For those approaching a cars merits from outside in, I'd call this already a win! Yes,, honda could do better than name it like a Dell... I mean... Dull laptop!

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by rajk15

The Honda fanboy i.e, myself politely disagrees. Quoting from another thread:

I understand your points but this looks straight out of a movie. Brand is down without much sales, suddenly they release a product and all the other players in the market seem irrelevant. The points make some sense but MSIL and the Korean twins are right at the top there (of course they have their downsides and Honda is no gem either). TAMO and M&M are not sitting quite, they are working and investing well on their R&D. Honda seems to be in hibernation with no new releases for God knows how long. I love Honda too, the petrol engines are gems but that isn't enough to set the sales charts on fire.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by AnAntinspired

Anyone notice how handsome this looks!

That image is of the N7X concept which has already been launched as the new BR-V in Indonesia. There's no news of it coming to India and the countries that India used to export the old BR-V to are getting the new one from Indonesia.

I think (personally) that if they're not joking about staying here, the Indian SUV is more likely to be based on this RS concept they unveiled last year and might be called the Elevate, at least for India. Maybe ZR-V abroad where xR-V doesn't sound like a flop already. I like the concept's front and rear but its side is very Buick Encore-y.


(image via Autocar India)

I hope this is a Venue rival and not a Creta rival because it would make no sense to base a Creta rival on the Amaze and not the City. If they do it could be a repeat of the Mobilio. It works for ASEAN markets but probably not for India. For the C-segment they could consider restyling the City Hatchback to look like an SUV, like they did with the new Jazz Crosstar. The City has most of what modern C-segment crossover buyers want and I don't see why they would go back to the Amaze platform for it.

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Forget press releases, Ford India was testing the EcoSport facelift weeks before HQ pulled the plug on India operations.

The also launched the Figo 1.2L automatic not long before the announcement so I'm not entirely convinced by the City e:HEV either. But it is a bit more substantial than pairing an existing engine to an existing gearbox. Also there's no JV to go kaput here.

[Pratiksm]

Once upon a time Honda was known for the cars which were admired by mass market and people paid premium for their excellent products. But due to their half motherly treatment for Indian market they are at risk of their existence

Let's hope someone from their bosses in Japan got the wisdom at last about not to take one of the biggest car market in the world for granted. If they are really serious this time, they must act fast and launch the car with all bells and whistles. Prices will be the key to success, because this time around people will not be ready to pay hefty premium for their product considering competition in the segment.

[evil_grin]

It seems like we want Honda to be successful in India more than Honda does. The disappointment in this thread feels like Honda had betrayed us. Honda is behaving like the high performing employee that suddenly starts perfoming badly.

A used Honda is the only way to achieve the impossible trifecta: fast, cheap, reliable. It's sad that we won't be seeing that anymore. The culture in that company started with the desire to make a Toyota that drove like a BMW. Now their culture is the desire to make a money printing machine.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

Have to agree with you there. The point is, the players (likes of Honda) that can set the market ablaze are not releasing anything good and the ones that release expensive toys (Korean twins) just don't take safety as a criteria at all.

Really? The Koreans don’t take safety seriously? So even if the top spec Korean car has 6 airbags and all the safety kit that others offer, it still becomes an unsafe car! Just because the crash ratings gave them a 3 star - which used a base variant for the purpose of testing. So we have stopped heeding to common sense now?

Originally Posted by CarguyNish

I don't want to buy an unsafe Creta & Seltos. If these SUV from Honda is well built (Which i am sure will be), it's win win for Honda. Being Honda it'll be Spacious, Practical, Reliable. There might be a Turbo Petrol Option this time, and Hybrid. Powertrain will take the Efficiency Rating to higher level. Only Equipment list is a question, but since this will be based on City and we all know how loaded the City is, i expect this Honda SUV to have most of the features of not all.

It’s completely your opinion but I don’t see how Honda makes well built cars while the Korean twins don’t. It is pretty evident to everyone by now that Honda uses sheet metal that equals or is marginally better than Maruti. Having owned a Honda in the past, I won’t speak highly about the build of their cars. The fit and finish is good no doubt but build quality is just average.

The “unsafe” Creta and Seltos comment will linger on TBHP forever even if the Koreans offer 12 airbags in these cars. Other brands would be safer even if they offer half of the safety kit that the Koreans do!

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

Really? The Koreans don’t take safety seriously? So even if the top spec Korean car has 6 airbags and all the safety kit that others offer, it still becomes an unsafe car! Just because the crash ratings gave them a 3 star - which used a base variant for the purpose of testing. So we have stopped heeding to common sense now?

I think if we speak of common sense, we should look at the crash ratings. I wouldn't look at a car that costs 20L plus on road and has a poor 3 rating on crash tests. All cars are tested with base variants that have a max of 2 airbags. The top specs cars are not tested even for TAMO or M&M. How are they scoring clean 5 stars? So, by your logic, customers should only buy the top specs from the Korean twins. I am sorry, my common sense tells me otherwise.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

So even if the top spec Korean car has 6 airbags and all the safety kit that others offer, it still becomes an unsafe car!

The “unsafe” Creta and Seltos comment will linger on TBHP forever even if the Koreans offer 12 airbags in these cars. Other brands would be safer even if they offer half of the safety kit that the Koreans do!

The answer lies here: "The bodyshell was rated as unstable and it was not capable of withstanding further loadings"! What 6 or 12 airbags can do to the top-end model if the body is unstable? Just adding airbags all over the body won't make a car safer. Structural safety is of great importance.

And I repeat - these are not A/B segment hatches.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

The answer lies here: "The bodyshell was rated as unstable and it was not capable of withstanding further loadings"! What 6 or 12 airbags can do to the top-end model if the body is unstable? Just adding airbags all over the body won't make a car safer.

And I repeat - these are not A/B segment hatches.

Thank you! I hope people understand that a poor bodyshell cannot be covered up in the guise of 6 or 8 airbags. The frame is weak and that is a fact.

[Mannu]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

Thank you! I hope people understand that a poor bodyshell cannot be covered up in the guise of 6 or 8 airbags. The frame is weak and that is a fact.

When crash ratings are published, one should look at the finer points about bodyshell and other gadgetry's performance. There are certain things provided to avoid a crash and certain things to minimize the impact.

Personally everyone is entitled to having an opinion about the vehicle they prefer or love but sometimes it's better to look at the facts objectively and form and opinion.