[SaiSW]

One thing I always wondered was why they didn't bother to develop their new platform around the Varicor 400 instead of the MJD. The V400 is a brilliant engine, it works really great in the Hexa, it is also pretty refined. Why didn't it work out?

Another member pointed out that Tata doesn't have metallurgy expertise around aluminium engines and also mentioned that they couldn't bring the 2.2 to BS6 era. Is the 2.2 an all aluminium engine? Was that the reason why the 2.2 didn't find it's way to the Harrier? Or was there any other reliability issues with it? From what I know, it is a pretty old engine, which has been used in multiple big Tatas over the years, so surely they would've ironed out reliability problems, if any?

Personally, I would've LOVED to see the Harrier with the 2.2 much more than the MJD. 156~ hp and 400 nm.

Regarding petrols, they can either offer a 1.5L engine with some sort of hybrid tech and target the people who want good efficiency or they could develop a 2L engine and target performance, like Mahindra did. From what I've read here and elsewhere, they seem to be developing a 1.5L unit for the Harrier. If they introduce a small petrol engine and it turns out to be neither fuel efficient nor fast, then it will be dead on arrival.

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by SaiSW

One thing I always wondered was why they didn't bother to develop their new platform around the Varicor 400 instead of the MJD. The V400 is a brilliant engine, it works really great in the Hexa, it is also pretty refined.
Another member pointed out that Tata doesn't have metallurgy expertise around aluminium engines and also mentioned that they couldn't bring the 2.2 to BS6 era. Is the 2.2 an all aluminium engine? Was that the reason why the 2.2 didn't find it's way to the Harrier?

From what I have read and what I assume, the platform and engine were chosen to get things moving faster. If Tata had built their own platform from scratch, like ALFA, the launch may have happened only now. Same goes with the 2.2L diesel engine. What I think is that, Tata plonked the AVL engine only in RWD configuration with a longitudinal layout. Making the engine BS6 shouldn't have been a big problem since they had done it in the winger. But making it FWD friendly would've meant a lot more testing, and Tata couldn't afford that much delay in the Harrier launch.

Also, in the aluminum engine, the 1.2L revotron petrol engine is an aluminium unit as per news articles. I believe most petrol engines are aluminium made. So, a 1.5L petrol or 2L petrol in aluminum should be possible by Tata. Diesel engines are usually made of steel and not aluminum (I believe only honda has all aluminium diesel engine).

[magikrider]

Well Harrier & Safari may come with ADAS. But will you be comfortable in trusting it fully? I think the most useful feature of ADAS is only Adaptive Cruise Control. But having all said and done, it would be great if Tata can just improve reliability with it’s new model and just give basic features like better centre console, improved steering and ventilated seats. Not more gizmos that would add to the woes later. Tatas and Mahindra both need to learn that customers prefer reliability over gizmos anyday! That’s why Toyotas sell after all! They already have great looking cars and renewed interest from the people, now just improve on the service experience!

[jeepster]

Originally Posted by Benoit

Same goes with the 2.2L diesel engine. What I think is that, Tata plonked the AVL engine only in RWD configuration with a longitudinal layout. Making the engine BS6 shouldn't have been a big problem since they had done it in the winger. But making it FWD friendly would've meant a lot more testing, and Tata couldn't afford that much delay in the Harrier launch.

Mahindra and Tata developed/introduced AVL sourced block almost simultaneously.

While Mahindra further developed 2.2 block for horizontal FWD application in xuv500.

And TATAs developed longitudinal FWD GB for winger only .. also updated it for BS6.

Dont know the reason!

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by AGupta

I don't think that there is a better car in the market than Harrier within 25 lacs in India.
Just need a few suggested upgrades and strict Quality control.

The mg hector, the mid models of the xuv700 and the scorpio-N, creta, seltos, mg astor etc are all present.

Sure, they don't look as good as the Harrier or Safari but atleast they won't leave you stranded and you can go on long trips with confidence. They also won't be requiring frequent visits to the service center while the staff are clueless on how to fix it. They are just overall a bigger pain than luxury imports to live with. Tata took giving the customer the range rover experience too seriously

[StopUnderrides]

Originally Posted by magikrider

I think the most useful feature of ADAS is only Adaptive Cruise Control.

Why do you say this? What about AEB and driver drowsiness detection? These can be life savers.

[RavenAvi]

Engine refinement being tested? Judging by the wires extending from under the bonnet into the cabin with a whole bunch of wires inside, our friendly neighbourhood AutoSpy thinks so!

[swiftnfurious]

I believe the biggest improvement that TATA should make for Harrier and Safari is engine refinement / cabin insulation. These cars just don't "feel" like the 25L segment. I for one, prefers a silent cabin with a comfortable ride and decent handling on any vehicles. The diesel drone wears me out. When I sat in my friend's Safari, it felt rather horrible for a car this expensive and immediately my friend's XUV 700 felt in a different league (cabin noise).

Also, I really hope TATA keeps these electronic package ONLY as an option for customers. I'd not touch a TATA variant with these features, atleast for the next 5 years till I hear absolutely 0 issues reported. Hearing HU issues even in the 2022 Harrier / Safari doesn't invoke much of a confidence in their flagship products for me.

[magikrider]

Originally Posted by StopUnderrides

Why do you say this? What about AEB and driver drowsiness detection? These can be life savers.

Yeah but it’s not something you’ll use or can rely on right. Most ppl would turn off AEB on indian roads as suddenly someone crosses roads here or a biker cuts you. We rely on our instincts more. While, ACC can be very useful on express ways and long highway journeys. It makes the good ‘ol cruise control actually usable on Indian roads. Automatic lane assist also works on expressways to some extent that way. But all said and done, these are complex features and can’t be relied upon. So sorta gimmicks is all they are.

[condor]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Engine refinement being tested? Judging by the wires extending from under the bonnet into the cabin with a whole bunch of wires inside

May not be so. Could be for testing - taking signals out from various points and being fed into a laptop in the cabin ?

Reason to say this is the Tigor EV Max ? pic that you have shared also has wires like that - big bunch. The EV wouldnt that kind of testing, like a diesel Safari would

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Attachment 2346065

[StopUnderrides]

Originally Posted by magikrider

Most ppl would turn off AEB on indian roads as suddenly someone crosses roads here or a biker cuts you. So sorta gimmicks is all they are.

- I agree that nothing can replace a defensive driver
- Most of us have never had occasion to use a fire extinguisher in office but most offices do have a fire extinguisher. AEB as the name suggests is for Emergencies
- I keep AEB on in my XUV 700 even in Bangalore traffic. You can override AEB by using the Accelerator. The human input always gets precedence

[magikrider]

Originally Posted by StopUnderrides

- I agree that nothing can replace a defensive driver
- Most of us have never had occasion to use a fire extinguisher in office but most offices do have a fire extinguisher. AEB as the name suggests is for Emergencies
- I keep AEB on in my XUV 700 even in Bangalore traffic. You can override AEB by using the Accelerator. The human input always gets precedence

Well there’s a difference between relying on something which may or may not work even in an emergency. A fire extinguisher is like Airbags. You don’t test them to see if they work. But it’s your last defence.
What I meant was that the AEB might be intrusive in Indian scenario given our traffic conditions. As it has been mentioned by many reviewers stating the same. People are apprehensive about so much tech in Indian cars where even the basic features don’t always work properly and reliability is a big concern. If you find it’s worth it, good to know.

[CarguyNish]

2022 Tata Safari & Harrier Facelifts To Launch Next Month In India

To launch as early as next month with cosmetic updates and feature additions.

Source

Major Drawbacks in Harrier that I have observed are

1. Touchscreen
2. No Rear Disc Brakes
3. No Height Adjustable Passenger Seat
4. No Auto Hold Function
5. Fiddly Handbrake
6. No so Premium Interiors


If Tata can rectify these, they'll have good chance of being best seller in segment just like Nexon and Punch.

[amtak]

Originally Posted by CarguyNish

If Tata can rectify these, they'll have good chance of being best seller in segment just like Nexon and Punch.

The QC still needs a lot to be desired. I had TDed both the Harrier and the Safari while I am waiting for the XUV. When my wife drove the Harrier, her first response was - "why does this drive like a truck"? This was after she had driven the Hector, XUV and multiple other diesel SUVs. On the Safari, which is supposed to be their flagship, the car had same sluggish behavior and had broken panels. I have clicked pictures of the same and even feel disgusting to share them.

[StopUnderrides]

Originally Posted by magikrider

What I meant was that the AEB might be intrusive in Indian scenario given our traffic conditions.

You are correct. AEB kicks in when someone cuts in. It might slightly increase the chance of being rear ended too. Not sure if the reviewers mention that you gets warning before the brakes are applied and you can override it by pressing the A pedal. That works very well in case you want to maintain a smaller following distance in slow traffic or even scare away intruding 2 wheelers by not allowing them to cut in.

This is part and parcel of partial automation and we have to adapt to it. It’s a bit like driving a torque converter automatic. You don’t get direct control over the gear selection unless you have a manual mode. You have to kickdown but one gets used to the lag or one uses kickdown in anticipation of an overtake.

There is a thread here on “Sleep and Drowsiness” where several Bhpians have shared how they fell asleep or drowsy for more than 3-4 seconds. Those are the occasions where AEB can be a life saver.


ACC on the other hand is quite useless in city traffic