[ZenMaster]

No wonder why Suzuki refuses to let go of their trusted NA engines even the the expense of power and performance.
They slogged their 4AT at a time when it would be treated as a joke in other markets for a car sold in 2022 .

While cost is a major factor, I guess reliability is will come a close second or even be first in the list. Maruti will do and sacrifice anything to maintain their "Simple + Reliable + No-nonsense" image.

[arbardhan]

Originally Posted by N4Nikunj

Dear All,

Though my car 2015 Hyundai Grand i10 1.2L does not come into the Turbo petrol category.

I'm facing a fuel pump-related issue suddenly over the last 1 month.

The symptom Is a longer crank to start. For the solution purpose replaced battery too with a new one.

I checked the function of the fuel pump with the help of my FNG. It is perfect but the issue still persists.

Currently, The issue is car once takes a longer crank to start then it cranks fine but even after a considerable amount of running say 15-16 km if I try to crank after the gap of 1 hour or more it takes a longer crank.

Can't actually pinpoint the issue.

Check the fuel pump relays if they are malfunctioning.

[Olympal]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Um.. Would appreciate more clarity on this. Does the manual say that it has to be 95 octane petrol? If so, for which engines?

It's strange for a manufacturer to sell engines using fuel which isnt readily available.

I read somewhere that Skoda Kushak owners manual says to use 95 octane and 91 octane in an emergency with driving at reduced speeds. Attached is an image from the inside of a Kushak fuel cap.

Wonder if any Skoda Kushak/Slavia owners can throw more light on this.

[VinsWagen]

Originally Posted by gururajrv

Really surprising to see how the complexity of turbo petrols are causing so many issues from a large scale manufacturer like Hyundai

Perhaps, the only company who’s hardly on the news for negative publicity in terms of quality is Maruti-Suzuki, maybe? They have just one simple Petrol engine and are playing happily by plugging it across all their cars! Whilst, this move seems pretty lethargic to me, looks like they are focused on providing less complex, less troubled cars to their customers and yes, less on safety front too

Their AMTs are quite bad. I had to get my dad's Celerio AMT gearbox replaced within 30k in ODO. I also know of 2 other AMT total replacements in Maruti vehicles from my relatives' circle, both before 50k on odo. I believe that the majority of Maruti buyers are not enthusiasts and hence these concerns do not get posted much in our forum.


In my view, there is only one undisputed king on reliability and quality, and that too by far. Rest are generations behind. The only other company which can come at least in Toyota's vicinity is Honda. All its products other than City may have been flops, but I had not seen anyone complaining about their reliability. Maruti is overrated on reliability.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

But will the engine type make a big difference with the fuel pump? Its just an electric motor that pumps petrol afterall,So I don't see a reason why the fuel pump would specifically suffer more stress
(Sorry for going a bit off topic, but that point raised my curiosity as to whether there will be a significant difference in the fuel pump for a TGDI.)

I suggest you do some reading on Direct Injection petrol engines, specifically the sort of complexity that is involved in a TSI or a TGDI engine. Extracting the sort of power from a 1.0L engine which beats a NA 1.5L engine roughly isn't easy. Hence that comes with more failure points and higher sensitivity. Talking about the fuel pump, no it isn't an electric fuel pump. Rather there is a low pressure pump which is electrical in nature which supplies fuel to engine and a high pressure pump similar to common rail diesels which further increase the fuel pressure suitable for direct injection. Hence this is the sensitive pump. For the low pressure pump, I am sure it won't matter what it pumps as long as its a liquid with similar viscosity.

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

No wonder why Suzuki refuses to let go of their trusted NA engines even the the expense of power and performance.
They slogged their 4AT at a time when it would be treated as a joke in other markets for a car sold in 2022 .

While cost is a major factor, I guess reliability is will come a close second or even be first in the list. Maruti will do and sacrifice anything to maintain their "Simple + Reliable + No-nonsense" image.

Most certainly. Japanese manufacturers like Suzuki or Toyota will stick to their age old tradition until they would be forced by some external factor to no longer use them. They continue mastering the same thing again and again to achieve perfection whereas the Germans bank on innovation and extract more and more out of what is present. And it's impossible to say who is best. It all depends on the buyer's preferences, risk taking ability and patience. The TSI engines are damn fun,but expecting them to be as reliable as an NA engine is foolishness, especially given that the conditions in our country are far off from being ideal in multiple angles. And there is little that the manufacturer can do.

[NiInJa]

Always had these fears lingering about turbo-petrol engine's reliability. This is the first time mass-market cars are getting extremely complex petrol engines having low tolerance to fuel impurities, poor quality of materials used in manufacturing, climate, dust, driving habits etc. It was one of the reasons why I decided not to go for a turbo-charged car when doing an upgrade two years back. We are yet to learn a lot about these engines and given the quality of service industry in India, I don't expect after-sales service to mature anytime soon when it comes to Turbo Petrols. From whatever I've read about Skoda, Mahindra and now Hyundai, in almost all cases they have simply resorted to changing components whenever such issues occurred, I doubt if they really did a proper root cause analysis.

Originally Posted by VinsWagen

Their AMTs are quite bad. I believe that the majority of Maruti buyers are not enthusiasts and hence these concerns do not get posted much in our forum.

The only other company which can come at least in Toyota's vicinity is Honda. Maruti is overrated on reliability.

You will see a lot of posts on AMT's reliability on this forum. AMTs are perfect example of the point I am trying to make. The first crop of AMT cars had lot of issues (not just Maruti), but it looks like Maruti and others have ironed them out to large extent as the newer cars haven't reported many issues with AMT.

Toyota and Honda never launched a turbo-petrol engine in India. Even the Petrol engine used in high-end cars like Innova, Civic, CR-V was an old school Naturally Aspirated one. Same applies for Maruti Suzuki, its not like they did not have a 1.0L turbo-charged engine, they could have happily localised it if needed. At the end of the day, a car should do what it is supposed to do every single time, take people from one point to another and not leave anyone stranded in between. Maruti cars are generally reliable, there will be quality issues but the probability of them having complete breakdown is low.

[Azalactone]

This is one of the reasons I never felt like buying a new car right now. The chances of defects are high due to Covid induced supply chain disruptions and other related problems.

No wonder Japanese manufacturers stay away from technologies like Gasoline Direct Injection , Dual Clutch transmission etc. I always felt Hyundai T-GDi engines are never going to be reliable and in general I honestly never liked the GDi technology. Its cons outweighs it's pros.

Turbo Charged Gasoline Direct Injection engines are probably the most unreliable engines in this modern day and age. The chances of wear and tear in such engines are huge compared to NA engines. They will never last as long as a NA engine.

I really don't understand the point of launching such technologies in a country like India where we don't even have basic proper roads.

There's no point having good build quality, features, interiors if the basics only aren't right. A automobile's most important function is to start each time the key is rotated and transport from Point A to Point B. Everything else is secondary and tertiary. If the basics are only not right then it defeats the whole purpose of a automobile.

I really sympathize with owners of these vehicles. After spending 10+ lacs on a car this is not even the last thing that should be expected.

No matter what Toyotas, Hondas, Suzukis are always going to be far more reliable than Tata, Mahindra, Hyundai/Kia, MG, Renault, Citroen, Fiat/Jeep, Volkswagen/Skoda etc and it's going to stay that way for a long time I guess.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Toyota and Honda never launched a turbo-petrol engine in India. Even the Petrol engine used in high-end cars like Innova, Civic, CR-V was an old school Naturally Aspirated one. Same applies for Maruti Suzuki, its not like they did not have a 1.0L turbo-charged engine, they could have happily localised it if needed. At the end of the day, a car should do what it is supposed to do every single time, take people from one point to another and not leave anyone stranded in between. Maruti cars are generally reliable, there will be quality issues but the probability of them having complete breakdown is low.

I am glad that VAG, Hyundai and few others did get their turbo petrol engines. Cannot imagine only living with those boring NA engines scared about the reliability. It’s good that we have options now, let people choose based on their risk taking ability, tolerance level and the priorities.
For me it’s always turbo petrol over NA engines.

[maverickNerd]

Originally Posted by Olympal

I read somewhere that Skoda Kushak owners manual says to use 95 octane and 91 octane in an emergency with driving at reduced speeds. Attached is an image from the inside of a Kushak fuel cap.

Wonder if any Skoda Kushak/Slavia owners can throw more light on this.

It says 95 recommended but 91 is allowed, don't go below 91
My Kushaq is now almost 1 year old, got 1st service done yesterday after 10350 kms, and it has not given me any trouble (no fuel issue), i used 95 fuel once for 20ltrs but it didn't increase any mileage so came back to 91, using 91 only , i never faced any issue, i drive mostly on highways so most of the fuel is also from highway pumps.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by maverickNerd

It says 95 recommended but 91 is allowed, don't go below 91

.....i used 95 fuel once for 20ltrs but it didn't increase any mileage so came back to 91...

India's minimum RON rating is 91. Not possible to go below that on paper at least. Again, if you really want to check the difference between 91 & 95, you'll need to give it at least one tank-full if not two. I'd say give it another try. The tank-full delta is not unreasonable!

[N4Nikunj]

Originally Posted by aravindrn

Hi,

I am also facing the same issue with my 2015 Grand i10 Asta. The service center had us change the battery on both the key fob and car but that has not fixed the issue. Do let me know if you find any solution for this.

Cheers
Aravind

Dear Aravind Ji,

Sure will let you know If I will find any solution to the particular problem.

Let's stay in touch.

[Rocketscience]

Upon rethinking this entire fiasco, I think making turbo petrols the scapegoat is wrong, perhaps the problem is indeed in just the fuel pump and only in a few batches of it as this Hyundai engine has been around since more than 3 years now and the problems are with the newer cars.

Skoda had this issue since day 1 and this could be related or unrelated.

If it is related then perhaps Hyundai switched to a new supplier and Skoda in its bad luck must have started with that supplier who must have promised the components at a lower price and Hyundai with its new found penny pinchingness must have jumped in joy without thinking resulting in this.

We have had reliable turbo petrols most notable of those would be Toyota's 2JZ from decades ago which has gone to the moon and beyond and performed well at more than twice its rated power without breaking a sweat, turbo Diesels at all price points have been extremely reliable, I mean I see no reason why they can't engineer a reliable engine, DCTs may inherently be a flawed concept (if it works in less stressful Europian conditions but falls on its feet in harsher Indian conditions then sorry it is a badly engineered product no two ways about it) but not the turbo petrols, even Direct Injected ones.

[Jeroen]

A lot of opinions about how these modern engines are unreliable. But I have yet to see what it is that actually fails and why? Does anybody know what part of these pumps supposedly fail and why?

Anybody that has seen such a failed pump being opened to check it out?

It would bring much needed facts and detail to the discussion.

Jeroen

[SSD2122]

I strongly feel if this is happening recently across the board, maybe it has something to do with ethanol mixing if that is what is being done.

I had faced this issue way back in 2014 on my brand new fiat linea turbo-jet. For the first time ever I filled up at some non-descript petrol pump just off Kolhapur and faced this issue few kms down the line. Kolhapur - Satara etc have lot of sugar factories and in all likely-hood ethanol would have found it's way to that pump. One never knows.

Fuel pump had to be replaced as the warning sensor for engine immediately blinked and the system wisely cut-off the fuel supply to avoid damage to the engine. This "gyan " came from the SA when I asked about why this happened.

Coming to 2022, we have turbo-petrols facing fuel pump issues. BS-6 diesels facing DPF issues. VW/Skoda vehicles facing AC issues. All these are serious issues leaving the owners either stranded or miserable and that too in exorbitant priced cars. Where are we going. Stopping short lest this turns into a rant!

This leaves only the NA petrol engines and I hope they remain relatively trouble free!

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Anybody that has seen such a failed pump being opened to check it out?

It would bring much needed facts and detail to the discussion.

Unfortunately, all that matters in our country is sensationalism. Technical or analytical stuff would be in the bin. Issue crops up - Gets to media - Pro Manufacturer media orgs downplay the issue - Rest blow it up to get as many hits as possible - manufacturer tries to address the issue - Search for new manufacturer/Issue begins.

That's the cycle that happens here. Skoda had fuel pump issues and everyone cried about it which is justified, then the company addressed the issue and closed. No one bothered why these failures occurred and what was the statistics of these failures. As you mention, this is very helpful to understand and probably avoid future issues. What is funny is after the fuel pump related EPC, even though people got this warning again for a different reason, people already started to question how reliable the upgraded fuel pumps were even though the issue we something else.

Now it is Hyundais turn to face the same. Internally they might do their research and address the issue. But unlike the developed world where we have third parties analysing widespread issues and giving a great explanation of their assessment, here we will only find news articles copied from one website to another.