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Old 27th June 2022, 12:06   #1
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Default Tall tales from the second-hand car market

While I've had some fun experiences with dealerships buying new cars, (you can read plenty here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...rships-25.html (Comedy of Errors at Indian Dealerships))
Nothing compares to the drama that happens in the second hand car market.
I was recently in the market for a used 4G Honda City for my father in law, and saw this very keenly priced zx at a dealership in a town nearby.
Called them up and was told that the seller was in the seafood export business, was trying to sell the car at a showroom owned by an online aggregator, but not getting any offers so trying out OLX by himself. Ideally this should have rang alarm bells because any aggregator worth their salt would spam every ad opportunity. And the Truecaller for the "owner" gave the name of another dealership in that town

The fun really started when we saw the name of the owner on the RC book. It was from my city, not the seller's town, and pretty close to where i lived. Suddenly i remembered a doctor who lived in that area with the exact same name.

And then the "owner" claims that since he already had a car loan in his name for another car, he had to get it in the name of a friend, who just happens to be from my town. When i asked for the service record, again it's from the dealership near my house than the one this guy should have used in his town

Anyway the TD didn't go too far. The car's suspension and brakes were trashed. The "owner" continued spewing dialogues about "trust" etc even after we confronted him with the name of the doctor who lived at that address being a known person.

I've bought used cars before, and know that dealers keep cars without transferring them. I have no idea why the guy kept spinning this tale that went to be taller and taller till it began to sound ridiculous

Please share your stories from your used car experiences. Alternately, if a thread exists, please merge
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Old 27th June 2022, 19:58   #2
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Default re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

An Uncle during the first lockdown purchased a used 2016 or 17 WagonR LXI petrol which had allegedly ran only 6000 kms from True Value in the city, i had asked him to wait but he bought the car anyways. The first time when i looked at the car it was completely painted from top to bottom, each and every panel was painted very poorly. All the 4 doors had started rusting from inside and the silver accents on the steering wheel were a little worn down, the tyres were around 50 % worn down so much for a 6000 kms car. The roof lining from near the boot hatch was also removed for painting. So much for the True Value assurance.

I was looking for a car myself a month back and looked at several cars, few of the stories.

At Dealer 1:

Jazz V: Even though i was looking for a VX, i looked at it the asking price was around 3.8 Lakhs and it had run around 40,000 kms but the tyres were on it's last legs and the interior trims were heavily worn down. I had gone on my activa as the dealers are all nearby and maybe he thought i don't own a car so he was trying to convince me that tyres only last 40,000 kms and i did not engage in the conversation.

Swift Lxi: 1 year old with a cng kit fitted had two tyres completely worn down because of the same logic that tyres only last 30 to 40,000 kms.
At this moment i informed him we have had cars for more than two decades and if the cars are maintained properly tyres easily last for 60 to 80,000 kms.

At Dealer 2:

Grand i10: This car had ran around 50,000 kms the overall condition was poor but when i looked in the boot of the car it was painted all black and when i touched it, it was wet so either it was an accident car or it had a CNG kit fitted at some point of time. When i confronted the dealer about the same he told me it is from factory so and i told him sure it hasn't had the time to dry off and without any further discussion i moved on.

At Dealer 3:

Swift dzire 2010: This was in the worst condition, the interior had glue all over and it seemed liked the interior was from a scrap yard.

Elite i20 2019: The car was in good condition but it had ran around 30,000 kms, the brake pedal was worn off and when i checked the boot it had reinforcement metal strips and it was painted so most probably it also had CNG kit fitted at some point.

At Dealer 4 Mahindra First:

Baleno 2019: The battery was of a WagonR and interior had scratches all over so i dropped it because if the owner wasn't ready to get a proper battery how can i be sure the car was maintained properly.

With all the used car prices going through the roof and with such examples i have shelved my plans for now.

Last edited by revvharder : 27th June 2022 at 19:59.
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Old 28th June 2022, 07:42   #3
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Default re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Sometimes I feel this is all about market cycles. With supply chain shortages, there are delays on fresh cars so the second hand market has heated up. A few years ago that market was going abegging. Suddenly I see used car dealer lots springing up along the Pune BLR bypass with hundreds of cars. Everyone seems to be jumping in it. Companies like Spinnys are even making a virtue of not discounting prices. The tide will turn after some time.
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Old 28th June 2022, 09:27   #4
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Default re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Recently while searching for a used car for my sister-in-law, I came across a 2011 Hyundai i10 Asta Automatic with Sunroof and a CNG kit fitted. It was priced at an atrocious 3.7 lakhs. The dealer's reasoning was that it had a sunroof and CNG which is a rare combination and so worth that much. . The delays in delivery and the overall price increase of new cars has made the used car business very lucrative.
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Old 3rd July 2022, 17:51   #5
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Default re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Quote:
Originally Posted by revvharder View Post
Jazz V: he was trying to convince me that tyres only last 40,000 kms and i did not engage in the conversation.

Swift Lxi: 1 year old with a cng kit fitted had two tyres completely worn down because of the same logic that tyres only last 30 to 40,000 kms.
At this moment i informed him we have had cars for more than two decades and if the cars are maintained properly tyres easily last for 60 to 80,000 kms.
All your points are valid and good catches except for the tyres. My elite i20's factory bridgestone tyres were pretty worn by 40k kms and I changed them all to Michelin primacy 4st. Tyre wear depends on the type of tyre it is, how soft/hard the compound is, the weight of the car and the driving style of the owner along with how well the alignment is. Generally premium tyres last less long but provide better comfort/grip while economy tyres last longer but provide less comfort/grip due to it being hard. Go up the range further and you will see german luxury cars needing tyre replacements every 20k kms. Make sure to get service records to verify odo reading.

Last edited by Aditya : 3rd July 2022 at 18:52. Reason: Quoted text trimmed
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Old 3rd July 2022, 20:33   #6
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Default re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Scam used car odometer tampering

I have been searching for an used car for a relative. It's been a month.

Most of the searches are on OLX.

I have realised prices of used cars have gone up. Point in reference being I myself had bought a used Estilo in 2018 for 170,000/-. It was a 2010 car VXi, single owner, run 21,000 KM (genuine KM as i checked Maruti's service record through a friend who works at an authorised service centre).

Similar vintage Estilo's with mileage around 60K are advertised now at around 200,000/- and upwards without much margin for bargain.

I am presuming reason for increase in price of used cars seems to be:
1. New cars have become expensive and as new cars are becoming increasingly unaffordable for people who need a mode of transport with 4 wheels the demand for used cars have increased
2. Don't know if there is also an impact of longer waiting periods on new cars but I presume it may be pushing up demand for used cars for someone needing a car for immediate use.
3. Most of the cars advertised on OLX are by individual brokers, car dealers and there are only few and far advertised by owners themselves. The intermediary adds their commission to the cost.
4. Also some owners might want to avoid the hassle of bargaining and getting called by lot of people and thus hand over the vehicle to an intermediary.
5. With the prevelance and easy access to online portals and calculators like OLX, OBV calculator, Carz24 calculator a seller can get a fair understanding and a reference point for their own cars from similar cars advertised and peg the selling price higher.
6. Also another thing I noted used cars in Metro, Cat A cities are selling cheaper compared to Cat B and beyond. Possibly there is more supply of used cars in the 1st two category.

Bizarre Experience - Scam in the market

One of the vehicle advertised on OLX was a 2010 Estilo LXi single owner, run 40,000 KM expected price 200,000. Advertised by someone whose name is different compared to the owner's name (how did I figure out the owner's name - read further).

Which meant the person who advertised is a intermediary mostly a small time broker dealing in everything from property, 4 wheelers, 2 wheelers, Scrap, agriculture produce, livestock. Essentially someone looking to make a fast buck with no clue of vehciles.

To the query are you a broker response was I am a relative, owner is abroad, they are old, don't know how to post an ad on OLX. Which is the usual response.

Now how did I figure out who is the actual owner. I use an App called RTO Vehicle Information and enter the RC number gives all details including Insurance, which owner 1, 2, 3 whether the vehicle is blacklisted any police case.
Except contact. The RC number is usually mentioned in the OLX Ad or ask the guy who advt the vehicle for the RC number.

Before going and seeing the vehicle I also seek the help of a SA at a nearby Maruti Service Centre and try to get the a) Service History b) last service KM using the RC number. If the vehicle has visited a service centre you get both the details. But there are cases where the vehicle has not visited the service centre after the 1st three services as a new vehicle.

In this example of the Estilo I mentioned above the last service was done on Oct 2019 and recorded the mileage as 40,700 KM. Armed with this information I saw the car. Condition of the vehcile overall was not as it should have been for a low mileage car, rust spots all over, clutch play, engine oil light on the dash stayed lit up.

And the most important and glaring alert was the odometer reading which was 40,900 KM in July 2022. Which means it's only run 200 KM in over 4 years highly unlikely.

When I pointed it out to the guy he said during COVID it has not run much and that I should drive the vehicle and see the condition.

Also another point to note was the IDV in the insurance paper was 90,000/- and he was demanding 200,000/- for the car.

I refused the offer to drive the vehicle and refused to make an offer and walked away.

Problem with buying a vehicle with ODO reading tampered

Without knowledge of the actual ODO reading the next owner will unknowingly delay the scheduled maintenance. Especially the major ones like timing belt and tensioner change. Which if damaged can be an expensive fix.

Meter tampering it seems is rampant. I tried to dig for more information unofficially and it seems the electronic ODO meter can be flashed and reset for 800/- odd bucks.

Some tips from my learning

1. Use the RTO Vehicle Information App to know vehicle and owner details
2. Connect with a Service Advisor to check for a) last service record b) last service KM
3. In the insurance document of the vehicle look for two specific things:
a) IDV which indicates the price at which the insurers have valued the vehicle
b) NCB% which indicates has there been any claim in last 5 years. This may not be of use if the owner has got repairs done and not claimed insurance.

Wish list

Ideally there should be national registry (could be in the form of a Website / App) which integrates all the information which currently is available in different places some easy to access some not so easy (service record, accident repair, insurance repair). Will help address the scam to some extent and also overall help having better maintained cars on the road, lesser loss of life and limb.

Such registries do exist in US and European markets.

Hope my experience would be of use to others.

Mods, I remember there are some threads about 'How to buy a *USED* Car in India' and "Odometer tampering is ridiculously easy". If you find my post is relevant and could be part of that thread also. Please do include / link the same. Could not figure out how to link. Thank you.
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Old 4th July 2022, 12:55   #7
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

There was a point where I loved Maruti for their cars (When they had the original Zen, Esteem and the original Baleno in their portfolio) and then they started True Value which was again a very nice concept and I remember a friend of mine benefitting from exchanging his old car while buying a new Maruti and getting a good price plus they had a neat loyalty program, however my perception changed quite a bit when I visited a True Value store myself one fine day. This was almost 12-13 years back and we went there with all positive thoughts but what I witnessed totally surprised me or should I say filled me with anger and disgust. There was this elderly couple looking for a pre-owned car and I am pretty sure they must have been recommended True Value by some well wisher. They were checking out an Alto and we could see it was clearly repainted and appeared to have some denting and painting done to fix accidental damage. The guys were trying to pass it off as original factory paint and non-accidental car and the old couple was almost sold. Since we were also interested, we tried questioning the sales guy and he was getting angry with out questions as we were trying to ask all logical questions about the original sealant, touch and feel or the paint, etc. The sales guys were literally hurling abuses at us for asking relevant questions about that car and asked us to wait aside. The old man came to us and thanked us when he could see the sale person getting irritated. We ended up leaving that place after a heated argument. From that day I have stopped trusting the company owned resellers blindly and their warranty/guarantee claims are nothing more than gimmicks. I though recently ended buying a pre-owned Honda City from Ola Cars and am pretty happy with the purchase but for that I had to drive almost 15-20 Cities over a period of 4-5 months and rejecting most. When I looked at the fine line, 7 days trial, 6 months warranty, etc. are all very smartly coined statements with a lots of ifs and buts, so I advice people to thoroughly go thru the terms and conditions.
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Old 4th July 2022, 13:05   #8
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Quote:
Originally Posted by donabrh View Post
[b]
Also another point to note was the IDV in the insurance paper was 90,000/- and he was demanding 200,000/- for the car.
IDV cannot be used to determine the value of the car. Its just a figure by Insurance provider and amount they would provide incase of total loss. The value of car will depend on condition and market demand. IDV numbers can also be manipulated by varying the premium.
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Old 4th July 2022, 20:40   #9
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Quote:
Originally Posted by donabrh View Post
Mods, I remember there are some threads about 'How to buy a *USED* Car in India' and "Odometer tampering is ridiculously easy". If you find my post is relevant and could be part of that thread also. Please do include / link the same. Could not figure out how to link. Thank you.
The private personnel with OBD scanners may be able to change the odometer readings. Ofcourse in our country there are no strict laws against odometer tampering but if proved amounts to cheating and breach if trust. While there is no actual method to determine whether odometer readings are genuine or not, the company service records may reflect on the conduct of the owner. That apart getting it checked by experienced petrolheads is probably the best bet. Its only preponderance of probabilities that determines the genuinity of the pre worshipped car.

Last edited by Aditya : 5th July 2022 at 05:07. Reason: Quoted text trimmed
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Old 5th July 2022, 09:07   #10
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
IDV cannot be used to determine the value of the car. Its just a figure by Insurance provider and amount they would provide incase of total loss. The value of car will depend on condition and market demand. IDV numbers can also be manipulated by varying the premium.
Very true. When I sold my Etios Liva petrol 2012 3rd hand car, I never thought I could sell it for more than 1.5 lakh. I bought that gem of a car for 2.75L in 2018 and sold it for 2.62 last week. The buyer kept on praising the condition of my car. The used car market is similar to US market right now.
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Old 5th July 2022, 09:50   #11
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

I mostly buy used cars and almost all my cars are from individual sellers except a Maruti Omni which I had bought in 2001 and New Scorpio in 2007. I have come across various cases of cheating & deception. I would rather call it day time robbery.

This is my very recent experience -

Recently I was looking for a SUV for highway use and came across a 17K KM done 2019 XUV500 W7 AT by Hyundai Showroom's H Promise. The price seemed right so took a long test drive. The XUV looked in pristine condition and still had some of the polythene protection intact on the dashboard and other places.

The XUV was owned by an Army personal and had Army stickers and insignia all over it. Though they were removed, but had left a impression and was visible.

The XUV was in really good condition except for a small noise from the right suspension when going over broken road. This noise was only when the top layer of the road is broken and not when going over humps, ditches are large potholes. The dealer had all the service records, the KMs, service frequency matched & Mahindra showroom as well gave a clean chit.

I was seriously thinking about buying it and was going through the photos I had taken. There was a small sticker of an independent garage on the rear windshield glass.

Out of curiosity, I just simply called the independent garage and told them that I am the new owner of the XUV and there is a noise from the suspension. The garage guy spilled the problem. The XUV had a major under body damage on the front right when it ran over a some concrete slab/stones etc. Though no damage to the external body, the suspension/lower arm suffered and was bent.

XUV owner sold the XUV to the dealer AS IS and the dealer go it repaired cheaply off records. He almost got away except for one small sticker.

I simply told the dealer that there has been an accident and I am not interested. The XUV was sold off couple of days later.

In April, I bought a 2017 Honda BRV from my colleague's neighbor and am happy with it.

I am still in the used car market looking for a small AMT. Looks like small car owners prefer to sell their cars to dealer and have no time/patience to sell to individual buyers

Regards
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Old 5th July 2022, 10:19   #12
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

Quote:
Originally Posted by donabrh View Post
[b]
Also another point to note was the IDV in the insurance paper was 90,000/- and he was demanding 200,000/- for the car.
IDV of a vehicle on insurance paper is not a correct indicator anymore. If I want to pay less premium, I can decrease the IDV. If I can afford to pay more premium , I can even increase the IDV.
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Old 5th July 2022, 13:18   #13
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

There are multiple scams in used car market. I wanted to buy my first car, so thought of buying a used car first. A Ritz is posted by a dealer saying it's a doctors car and is lady driven. Seeing the less KM on odometer and pics i got interested, but kept looking for more options on olx. Same car was posted by another dealer saying it was used by Army officer. I immediately stopped looking on olx and went via a known person and purchased a 2006 Swift vxi.
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Old 5th July 2022, 14:44   #14
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

I was looking for a preowned automatic small car for my wife. My first preference has been Jazz, preferably in VX trim. I saw 3 cars in total, before calling off the search in Bangalore.
1. VX trim: 2019, Owner, 9k kms on odo: After 1 min of drive several things were off. The suspension was noisy. Breaks weren't sharp, handling was off. After slight "interrogation", the owner has never serviced the car. There was a minor(as per him) accident, for which he claimed insurance.

2. VX Trim: 2019: Dealer, 7K on odo, Dealer: the car was off on several parameters. No insurance, no contact with owner, story of the owner changing every 5mins. I lifted the Gear lever cover, and there is mud all over the place. asked him to open the hood, and there is severe rusting(he tried to cover it with polish) but too bad a condition to really cover it. Aftermarket media player. All conditions were pointing to a Flood affected car. Never serviced after the 1st service.

2. VX Trim: 2018: Dealer, 11K on odo, Dealer: Mix of 1st and second car. possibly a flood-affected car. Non-reachable (in us) owner. The interior of the car doesn't match the odo. No service history.

All of these cars were sold to unassuming buyers later. And I feel for those poor guys.

Advice: Hold your preowned car search right now if you're in Bangalore, or buy from reputed dealers only.

Last edited by abtyagi : 5th July 2022 at 14:47. Reason: additional info.
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Old 5th July 2022, 16:43   #15
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Default Re: Tall tales from the second-hand car market

So,I was looking for a second hand hatchback to buy and after throbbing through FB marketplace I got a classified in which the seller was selling a 2018 diesel swift AMT top model at a price point (5.2lac) which was around 20 percent less than other classifieds. I got in touch with the seller and turns out he was a dealer based in Hathras, around 150 km from my place in Delhi. I visited him and inspected the car in flesh and found no defects at all. Everything was perfect except for an instance where I asked for the service record booklet which made me suspicious since they replied that the booklet is lost. It was quite weird since this was the only piece missing. When I inquired about the accidental history he denied having any accident except minor body dents. Fortunately I didn't made any advance payment since he wasn't willing for the price I was offering ( it was meager 20k less).
I went home and after some days he called me again and agreed on the price point I was offering. But by god grace, I was out and out of curiosity I visited a MSIL service center to verify the service history. To my horror it was found that the vehicle underwent a service repair of whooping 3 lacs at second service!!!! Well for a brand like Maruti it had to be something major accident which amounted to such a huge bill. When I called the dealer and confronted him about the this fact he concealed, he plainly denied giving me non logical excuse. He then hanged up and blocked me.
Hadn't it be my pro-activeness to due diligence before the purchase my hard earned money would have been in waste.
So before buying a second hand vehicle from anywhere, just verify two facts:
1) Service history
2) All insurance records (check for ncb, if it isn't there ask the seller reason for it)

Attaching the car pictures here along with classified which he was selling. Avoid such dealers at all cost.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...12920399839308
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