[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Rumours has it that new Jimny will be called Gypsy!

At least it won’t be ruined like the Safari (no offence to the owners). Gypsy will the perfect name.

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara AllGrip AWD tech explained.

When it arrives, the Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara and its cousin, the Toyota Hyryder, will be the only models in the midsize SUV segment to offer four-wheel-drive capability. Suzuki offers its four-wheel-drive tech in three versions, and look at each and examine the one that will be offered on the Grand Vitara and Hyryder.

Suzuki uses the ‘AllGrip’ moniker for its all-wheel-drive tech, which comes in three grades or versions. The first is the ‘AllGrip Auto’, which is offered on the international-spec Swift and Ignis.

Then there’s the ‘AllGrip Select’ system that’s available on the Vitara and S-Cross models sold abroad and will be the one offered on the Grand Vitara and Hyryder in India.

And lastly, there’s the ‘AllGrip Pro’ for more serious off-roaders such as the Suzuki Jimny.


Suzuki AllGrip Select: how it works ( GV, HYryder)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNkI...l=SuzukiGlobal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9c5...l=SuzukiGlobal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_nG...l=SuzukiGlobal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNTk...l=SuzukiGlobal

Unlike AllGrip Auto, which automatically engages and disengages, AllGrip Select offers the driver control over the system, with four modes to choose from – Auto, Sport, Snow and Lock. The system is electronically controlled via a push-and-turn dial on the dashboard.

In Auto mode, two-wheel drive (front wheels) is the default, and when the system detects front wheel slippage, it sends power to the rear wheels via an electronic coupling. Once the front wheels have grip, the system switches back to 2WD. Suzuki says that the system can also anticipate slippage based on the road surface, throttle position, steering angle and other factors, and thus send power to the rear wheels just before slippage occurs, thereby improving driving stability.

In Sport mode, apart from switching the engine to a lively throttle setting, the AWD system – using inputs from the steering wheel, throttle position and other sensors – calculates the vehicle’s intended motion and path, and then automatically sends appropriate amount of power to the rear wheels to help in cornering manoeuvres. Thus, the driver gets an overall sporty driving experience from both, the engine and the handling characteristic.

Snow mode, as the name suggests, is for use in snow and other similar, slippery conditions. The system sends very measured amounts of power to all wheels to maintain a stable driving condition. At times, the system can operate in 2WD mode, but here too it anticipates any slip/skid conditions and can send power to the rear wheels to mitigate them and provide a stable drive condition.

Lock mode is a subset of ‘Snow mode’ and can be engaged only in conjunction with the latter. In this setting, power is sent to all four wheels in a near-50:50 front-rear power distribution ratio. This helps the vehicle get through muddy, sandy and tougher off-road conditions. There is also a brake-locking-differential function which, via the ESP system, can brake an individual spinning wheel, thus tricking the differential into sending power to the wheels on the ground.

Suzuki AllGrip Pro: how it works

In the AllGrip Pro system, the main distinguishing feature is the presence of a low-ratio gear that further multiples engine torque and limits speed. Of the three AllGrip modes, this is the one best suited to off-road driving.

The driver can select between two-wheel-drive high (2H), used for all normal driving conditions; four-wheel-drive high (4H), for some off-road or slippery conditions; and four-wheel-drive low (4L) mode, which is required for very tough off-road conditions like deep mud and sand or very steep slopes

Link

[pannags]

I've decided to ignore the teasers and spy shots. They don't reveal much, but go on to fuel speculations and discussions.

I wish the Grand Vitara launch will include pricing information and test drive cars at dealerships. I'm still not able to get behind the wheels of a Brezza AT, whose pros and cons, BTW, have been discussed and debated at length

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

I won't argue on the Japanese merger part as I have no conclusive information on that ....... even their Grand i10 used to have a high quality build and very high quality interiors for its price, their mediocre safety rating however is being targeted these days and they are being trolled for that, which is fair.

Well now, Hyundai & Kia being first cousins - so to speak – it may be safe to assume their having similar build qualities. Since I am not affiliated to the auto industry (apart from a 10 year stint as Ch. Engr on Mitsui’s car-carrier fleet!) I cannot say that I – like the “mob” - am privy to the shop-floor build quality practices or safety practices of manufacturers.
But what I do see is what most of us laymen can see – that the Koreans have chosen the bean-counter’s route to success by clambering on board the “monocoque-FWD-large hatch” bandwagon and offering their range of soft-roaders. Most of them without even the benefit of AWD/4WD - but hanging on to the SUV name-plate! Nor have they taken the trouble to get a rating from the G-NCAP. Why rock the boat when the gravy is pouring in? And all thanks to our largely indiscriminating marketplace. It is heartening to see however, that this is changing – and all thanks to our domestic majors (Tata & Mahindra mainly) who are offering their recent products with respectable G-NCAP ratings and Mahindra with their real-world SUVs, with B-O-Chassis architecture and genuine off-road capabilities.

[govigov]

Originally Posted by RijuC

This AllGrip is finally here, superb.

Does it come with Automatic Transmission? I need AT, that's not negotiable.

According to the UC Hyryder doc, ie, their eborchure, the AWD is available in Neodrive MT, which would be the 1.5 K series engine.

[Transmission]

Originally Posted by RijuC

This AllGrip is finally here, superb.

Does it come with Automatic Transmission? I need AT, that's not negotiable.

Same thoughts here. As much as I'd like AWD, I want a proper AT first.

Expecting this to priced around the Creta/Seltos/Astor range - so if like the Hyryder this too doesnt get AWD in the AT guise, then I guess there is really no USP that this has over the rest except the Maruti mileage - which at this price point probably matters much less (or thats how I, a potential customer, think).

[smilingakash]

Originally Posted by Transmission

Same thoughts here. As much as I'd like AWD, I want a proper AT first.

Expecting this to priced around the Creta/Seltos/Astor range - so if like the Hyryder this too doesnt get AWD in the AT guise, then I guess there is really no USP that this has over the rest except the Maruti mileage - which at this price point probably matters much less (or thats how I, a potential customer, think).

Sorry to burst your bubble but Maruti will not come with AT+AWD. Do not think Maruti can make that big a departure from Toyota Hyryder in the model offerings. In Hyryder, AWD is coming with Manual Transmission +Smart Hybrid avatar. On top of that, AWD top spec is missing additional features for no reason at all!!

[Venkatesh]

Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara Panoramic Sunroof teased.



Link

[SanjayW]

Competition is forcing Maruti to provide features that I thought Maruti will never provide in it's cars.
I think that day is not far when Maruti plonks turbo petrol and fiat sourced diesel engines at least in bigger cars.

[84.monsoon]

I believe one of the reasons that Maruti is still sticking with the 1.5 NA engine is an old-fashioned and flawed market research strategy. The strategy looks to be - to keep existing Maruti customers upgrading from Marut's own hatchbacks and CSUVs within the stable, by offering them a larger vehicle that gets them to the aspirational category of mid-suze SUVs, (which have become the new must have for every urban upper middle class family), which continuing to give them thr top attributes they value in their Marutis.

Now if you go out and ask your existing Maruti customers to rank the most important attributes among comfort, upfront cost, maintenance cost, reliability, fuel efficiency, looks, power, resale value, safety etc., a vast majority would rank fuel efficiency, maintenance cost and resale value as the top 3. This is the thought process of the middle class customer segment of the last decade, which views their Maruti cars as long term assets and investments that needs to be productive over a long period, using the least fuel, with minimum downtime and good resale value.

So now you have the value drivers of middle class entry level car buyers being projected on to a higher segment, without regard for the competition in that segment and what the actual value drivers would be for the target buyers in this new stage of their career and life. It is blind to the fact that the potential customers who once bought a WagonR or Swift Desire might now prioritize some other element of the value equation over what they did before. For many in this higher segment, their new purchase is viewed as a short term luxury-oriented one, where power, driving experience etc. could take priority over fuel efficiency and resale value.

The rote translation of such market research into design decisions and engine selection has resulted in a car that should work on paper, but by the time the car arrives, most target buyers are now chasing a different dream, one of luxury features that their neighbors don't have and of a car that has the most HP and Torque in the street.

The other problem with this approach is they are constantly trying to retain existing customers who are upgrading and not going after net new customers who have never owned a Maruti before. This will result in a pie that is shrinking constantly as more of the customer base leaves the tent due to superior luxury and power offered by the competition.

[Transmission]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I believe one of the reasons that Maruti is still sticking with the 1.5 NA engine is an old-fashioned and flawed market research strategy.

...

Now if you go out and ask your existing Maruti customers to rank the most important attributes among comfort, upfront cost, maintenance cost, reliability, fuel efficiency, looks, power, resale value, safety etc., a vast majority would rank fuel efficiency, maintenance cost and resale value as the top 3. This is the thought process of the middle class customer segment of the last decade, which views their Maruti cars as long term assets and investments that needs to be productive over a long period, using the least fuel, with minimum downtime and good resale value.
.

My thoughts too. I saw the Brezza unveil and it either is par for the course for car unveils - but my takeaway from it was that the speaker (especially the bald guy) had absolutely no clue what a potential buyer in the segment wants - and they are still going by what the entry level car buyer wants - but now bigger. All his saying were buzzwords that may (although probably not) impress a aged-person coming to a showroom with I-want-a-large-car-with-4-wheels mentality and nothing more. Instead of coming across as a "hot and techy" presentation/car, it came across as a poor parody of one.

Performance? Does it move?
Features? Does it have rain wiper and Headlamps?
Kitna deti hai?


Tech becomes an active impediment when you sell to that segment, I'd suppose. And that last bit, I fear that's going to kill the AWD + TC combo in the Vitara, sadly if the the Hyryder is anything to go by :(

[shadow59]

Originally Posted by umohan98

Attachment 2332450
Looks like the Grand Vitara will start from 9.5 Lakhs ex showroom.

Was playing around with the Nexa Website when I spotted this line hidden in the site.

Seriously? Are Maruti so careless to put the price of the car in the site before launch? What a company

[volkman10]

Differentiating from Urban Cruiser Hyryder, the Grand Vitara will get a larger Panoramic Sunroof.

Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara Will Get Biggest In Class Panoramic Sunroof.

Link

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I believe one of the reasons that Maruti is still sticking with the 1.5 NA engine is an old-fashioned and flawed market research strategy. The strategy looks to be - to keep existing Maruti customers upgrading from Marut's own hatchbacks and CSUVs within the stable, by offering them a larger vehicle that gets them to the aspirational category of mid-suze SUVs, (which have become the new must have for every urban upper middle class family), which continuing to give them thr top attributes they value in their Marutis......

........The other problem with this approach is they are constantly trying to retain existing customers who are upgrading and not going after net new customers who have never owned a Maruti before. This will result in a pie that is shrinking constantly as more of the customer base leaves the tent due to superior luxury and power offered by the competition.

Excellent analysis.

However I suspect the reason for sticking to 1.5L engine is simple. Suzuki has consciously tuned the IC engine to manage CAFE and RDE norms. These regulations are the only lens through which they view all development. Driving pleasure is not a priority for them. As soon as they have more solutions for managing CAFE and RDE via EVs and Hybrids, they would surely bring the European vehicle turbos to India as well.

The features being advertised relentlessly are supposed to divert a customer attention from the engine power shortage. This tactics has worked wonders for TATA with customers oblivious to the poor cabin NVH in Nexon or Punch. The sole attention has been drawn towards the Styling and Safety scores. The slap on EV variant gives more of a halo effect to the entire brand making people ignore many other weaknesses.

It is upto Suzuki to figure out which feature will provide Halo effect towards its line up. The hybrid is the closest bet with figures of 24-24 kmpl potentially affecting even the die hard never-Suzuki customers, if priced competitively (I am hopeful they will). The Brezza pricing has been of course set to create gaps for their Baleno Crossover and Jimny.

Humans (not just Indians) are biologically tuned for herd mentality behaviour. Even in the mid size SUV segment, there are a lot of buyers who buy a Seltos or a Creta or a Harrier because they see others do so and not just because objectively a car is better.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

Excellent analysis.

However I suspect the reason for sticking to 1.5L engine is simple. Suzuki has consciously tuned the IC engine to manage CAFE and RDE norms. These regulations are the only lens through which they view all development. Driving pleasure is not a priority for them. As soon as they have more solutions for managing CAFE and RDE via EVs and Hybrids, they would surely bring the European vehicle turbos to India as well.

The features being advertised relentlessly are supposed to divert a customer attention from the engine power shortage. This tactics has worked wonders for TATA with customers oblivious to the poor cabin NVH in Nexon or Punch. The sole attention has been drawn towards the Styling and Safety scores. The slap on EV variant gives more of a halo effect to the entire brand making people ignore many other weaknesses.

It is upto Suzuki to figure out which feature will provide Halo effect towards its line up. The hybrid is the closest bet with figures of 24-24 kmpl potentially affecting even the die hard never-Suzuki customers, if priced competitively (I am hopeful they will). The Brezza pricing has been of course set to create gaps for their Baleno Crossover and Jimny.

Humans (not just Indians) are biologically tuned for herd mentality behaviour. Even in the mid size SUV segment, there are a lot of buyers who buy a Seltos or a Creta or a Harrier because they see others do so and not just because objectively a car is better.

Well put! "...there are a lot of buyers who buy a Seltos or a Creta or a Harrier because they see others do so and not just because objectively a car is better."

Otherwise I see no other reason for choosing a Seltos/Creta/Harrier, since they all come across as generic cross-overs which have a common gene - large, FWD, monocoque hatch-on stilts. They are neither proper hatchbacks nor proper SUVs. Like Winston Churchill's famous remark on hearing the name of Sir Alfred Bossom!