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Old 29th August 2022, 11:55   #1
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The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

Guys, please please run a VIN check & thorough PDI of your new car before its registered in your name.

Have received confirmed reports from a reliable source of test-drive cars being sold off as new at dealerships. 1 OEM is also well aware of this practice and is doing nothing to stop it. The number at this OEM itself has gone beyond 300 cars.

If your allotted car is a couple of months old for a fast-moving model, that's a warning sign. If the PDI shows unusual wear & tear and the lack of "freshness" we expect from a car just dispatched from the factory, that's a warning sign.

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!
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Old 29th August 2022, 12:17   #2
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

I am not surprised to read this at all. The current auto scenario is allowing the dealerships to have complete monopoly leading to fraudulent practices being followed by many. The only surprising part for me is that the OEMs are ignoring all the tell tale signs and absolutely doing nothing. So, some blame has to be taken by the OEMs too. The dealerships and their SAs currently are having the time of their lives.

I for one would like to see the Tesla model of selling cars and completely do away with dealerships. There can be experience centers and service stations but that's it. I do see the challenges in a country like India but someone needs to make a start somewhere.

I have interacted with multiple dealerships from multiple OEMs in the last one year and my experience has been bad. The dealerships are behaving like they are doing the customer a favor by providing them with a car/product.
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Old 29th August 2022, 12:40   #3
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

Isn't the odometer reading going to give this away? I thought it is impossible to tamper with odometers on today's cars.

Last edited by cool_dube : 29th August 2022 at 13:04.
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Old 29th August 2022, 12:48   #4
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

I have seen a few instances of the same with an OEM (which I prefer to keep secret) where they were selling a car made quite a few months back (used as a test drive car) which got into an accident, they repaired it fully replacing all the damaged parts and tried to sell it as new, I don't how they managed to tamper with the odometer though.
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Old 29th August 2022, 12:49   #5
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

Most of the test drive cars are top spec variant, so be extra careful when buying top variant.

Last edited by Latheesh : 29th August 2022 at 12:50.
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Old 29th August 2022, 13:21   #6
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by dular View Post
I for one would like to see the Tesla model of selling cars and completely do away with dealerships. There can be experience centers and service stations but that's it. I do see the challenges in a country like India but someone needs to make a start somewhere.
Mercedes India is already doing it partly - very similar to Mahindra's way of selling XUV7OO and Scorpio N. In my opinion, this go-to-market model is possible for products, where demand is higher than supply. For all the other products (read off-the-shelf), the distributor model is the best. The advent of EVs will be disruptor in many ways and these will definitely need experience centers. Lets watch out for the next decade and the auto industry can go through the transformation of our life time.
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Old 29th August 2022, 13:40   #7
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Isn't the odometer reading going to give this away? I thought it is impossible to tamper with odometers on today's cars.
In most cars, it's as simple as unplugging a 'network cable' look-alike port under the hood. If you disconnect it, the odometer stops.
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Old 29th August 2022, 15:24   #8
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
1 OEM is also well aware of this practice and is doing nothing to stop it. The number at this OEM itself has gone beyond 300 cars.
Unless there is a potential libel or slander concern with mentioning the OEM's name, can it be shared so we know whom to steer clear of? Your comments on doing a VIN check and thorough PDI are best practices to be followed religiously by all, at the very least by folks who rely on this forum for unbiased feedback and advice

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Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
In most cars, it's as simple as unplugging a 'network cable' look-alike port under the hood. If you disconnect it, the odometer stops.
If this is the case in most newer cars too, what is to stop dealers from doing this all the time to only 'show' ODO at 10 kms or less for all new cars?
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Old 29th August 2022, 15:36   #9
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

Skoda dealers are listing these cars with a discount provided and officially mentioned as test drive cars. Found such advertisements from at least three of them so far with around 4-6 cars per dealership. These are unregistered and apparently with standard warranty as provided by the manufacturer. Not sure how that works out though.
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Old 29th August 2022, 19:44   #10
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
In most cars, it's as simple as unplugging a 'network cable' look-alike port under the hood. If you disconnect it, the odometer stops.
I would say you would be hard pressed to find a modern car where you can just unplug it. Especially a high end version. On my 1982 Mercedes W123 the speedometer is driven with a cable from the transmission box to the actual speedometer on the dashboard. All mechanical. You can pop the instrument pod out and disconnect the cable easily. Will stop the odometer.

On my 1986 Alfa Spider it is an electrical mechanical system and there is actually a very accessible plug you undo. Will stop de odometer.

But on my 1998 Jeep Cherokee things get more complicated already. There are multiple sensors feeding into the PCM where the speedopuls is fed onto the network. There are no dedicated speedo plug. Alll wired into plug carrying multiple signals. Also on the actual instrument panel it is impossible to disconnect anything. Unless you would actually take a soldering gun to it and for instance disable the power to the eprom storing the odometer reading. That eprom can be overwritten fairly easily if you have a simple eprom writer and the correct cables and connectors.

On many modern cars the mileage is actually stored in two different locations. Usually in the speedometer/speedometer and in the ECU and or PCM. If the values in these two locations don’t match, an alarm or engine check light will come on. Disabling the odometer is usually simply not possible. Because the odometer works of the various speed sensors. And those are also input to the ECU, PCM, BCM, cruise control, ABS and various other systems. So heavily integrated.

What is possible is to change the value in both locations. Dealers have the equipment to do so. Because if they change a speedo or an ECU they need to adjust the new unit for the correct mileage. Unfortunely the same can be used to alter the odometer, I.e. roll it back. On some system rolling back the odometer will leave telltales on the system, but you need a pretty advanced OBD scanner to read those. I have three OBD scanners but mine can’t do it.

On new cars, especially high end versions, I don’t think you can easily disable the odometer, for all the reason pointed out above. However, you can roll back the odometer and the official dealer does have the equipment and knowledge to do so. Whether they actually do so, is a matter of the calibration of their moral compass and your trust.

In all honestly, I would not put anything past any mainstream dealer, even here in the Netherlands. A good friend of mine traded in his BMW 5 series at the largest BMW dealer here. Two weeks later his BMW showed up on their website under the occasion section. However, it had lost over 55000 Km. My friend called them. His BMW had been sold and bought back by the dealer. So in theory the dealer is in the clear. But obviously it is just a racket. 55000 km of the odometer on a five year old 5 series is worth Euro 12-15000 easily! Go figure.

CAr sales people, second hand or new, are the lowest life forms in existence. Never, ever, and I mean ever, trust them. Whether you buy a Tesla or Fiesta, they are just awful people! I would not trust them any further than I can throw them, anywhere in the world. When we find other civilisations around us, I am sure we will find something similar at a very distant planet at a remote galaxy. Some guy selling a rocket with warp speed capabilities claiming it has only travelled a billion light years. But he rolled back the nuclear odometer which was ready 2,5 billion light years. Show me an honest car sales person and I show you a myth.

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Old 29th August 2022, 20:11   #11
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Isn't the odometer reading going to give this away? I thought it is impossible to tamper with odometers on today's cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
In most cars, it's as simple as unplugging a 'network cable' look-alike port under the hood. If you disconnect it, the odometer stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vijaykr View Post
If this is the case in most newer cars too, what is to stop dealers from doing this all the time to only 'show' ODO at 10 kms or less for all new cars?
Odometer reading is not enough of a deterrent. Especially when it comes to the dealers who have the requisite OEM tools.

A related thread with some first hand accounts of odometer resets - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...et-dealer.html (Can new cars have their odometer reset by the dealer?).
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Old 29th August 2022, 20:13   #12
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Skoda dealers are listing these cars with a discount provided and officially mentioned as test drive cars..
Found this ad on Facebook today.
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Old 29th August 2022, 21:05   #13
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post

In all honestly, I would not put anything past any mainstream dealer, even here in the Netherlands. A good friend of mine traded in his BMW 5 series at the largest BMW dealer here. Two weeks later his BMW showed up on their website under the occasion section. However, it had lost over 55000 Km. My friend called them. His BMW had been sold and bought back by the dealer. So in theory the dealer is in the clear. But obviously it is just a racket. 55000 km of the odometer on a five year old 5 series is worth Euro 12-15000 easily! Go figure.
I remember traveling with my Dutch associate from Heerenven to Almello for some urgent work on his BMW530d. I was to pick up a Hyundai van and drive it back. He disappeared somewhere while I played with an Audi V8. Came back, his 75000km E39 became 55000km. He had deliberately got the car serviced privately to avoid service records showing up.

Lets just say, when he told his girlfriend, her respect for him went down a few notches.
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Old 29th August 2022, 21:29   #14
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Lets just say, when he told his girlfriend, her respect for him went down a few notches.
I would not want friends like him. Despicable!
Jeroen
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Old 1st September 2022, 09:31   #15
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Re: The downside of chip shortages | Test-drive cars being sold as new

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Guys, please please run a VIN check & thorough PDI of your new car before its registered in your name.
My colleague finalized for Skoda Rapid back in year 2018, but he told me the dealer is offering mouthwatering discounts on Ambition variant whereas the other showroom sales team said no discounts, I just told him to ask for VIN of the vehicle and he never received a call back from the sales person from that branch.

One can also ask for photos of the vehicle direct from the stock yard with the protective films on the vehicle, as they remove it before PDI only.
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