[rahulmuk07]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Looking at the speeds they were traveling at , this can be easily called dangerous driving, I don't think a crash barrier would have helped, at best it would have diverted the car onto the rear end of another truck.

Attachment 2355434

Illustration from Deccan Herald.

20 KM in 9mins is an average speed of 133Km/hr not 190Km/hr

I wonder what is wrong with TOI editors.

[shramik]

Come on guys, we are TEAM BHP !!

All of us are assumed to know the difference between fast driving & dangerous driving.....
An average of 130 Kms/hr is quite possible to achieve on any of our highways traffic conditions permitting and here lies the nub !!!

After seeing many of the footage and pictures, it is very easily surmised that that had approach & access to the bridge been properly thought of, this accident could have easily been averted.
I would assume that this highway is within the NHAI's ambit and therefore see no reason why they or the building contractor of this section should not be held accountable.

When a building collapses, or a factory catches fire, isn't the owner right away arrested, rightly or wrongly ??
So how different is this ???
After all, why is a toll charged ??
Isn't the operator supposed to ""maintain"" the stretch for which they are paid ??? And doesn't ""mantain"" mean proper alignment and signposting ??

[denzdm]

Originally Posted by rahulmuk07

20 KM in 9mins is an average speed of 133Km/hr not 190Km/hr

I wonder what is wrong with TOI editors.

Yes, your calculation of 133 kmph is accurate. However, I guess they are not implying average speed. Rather, they want to bring attention to the fact that the car was driven faster than this speed as it has to slow down at certain sections and then accelerate at some sections (e.g. braking and overtaking speeds are very different).

[Crank]

Originally Posted by LokiPilaniya

I've been to this road twice and I never noticed anything lethal.

It happens. I was perfectly confident about a stretch in ECR in the south only to be corrected by my friend that it's an accident zone where he lost his friend to an accident (a Wagon R hitting the divider to avoid a speeding bus in the opposite direction). I have traveled in this stretch several times before getting to know about this. A close watch later showed me that there were too many accidents in that area, that the traffic police had kept the mangled cars as testimony for the dangerous stretch.

Originally Posted by LokiPilaniya

There are Rumble strips on the flyover before this section and then there are Rumble strips when you are approaching the bridge and also the gap in the divider. I am very much confident that this is a 60 km/h zone.

So this tells me, the driver would have certainly slowed before approaching this stretch as rumble strips do a great job in reducing speed as well as alerting the driver.

Originally Posted by LokiPilaniya

But if someone is ignoring all these indications and saying that there was a sudden change of lanes from 3 to 2

After the rumble strip there's a divider. This tells a driver who does not know this stretch that the rumble strip is to alert about the divider and not essentially to alert that there is a change in the lanes.

Normally these kind of accidents happen when one tries to cut lanes and move to extreme left from extreme right as this impairs visibility very much and after such a maneuver, it becomes even more difficult to correct the course, for whatsoever reasons - here in this case the pathetic road infra.

Most of us keep telling others how good we drive and what lessons we learnt on the road. But what we do on the road depends on a lot of factors - reason for the travel, our co-passengers, discussions in car, what we ate, our health condition, car's health and decisions we make at the moment of surprises. We all have to keep in mind that Indian roads are a "Death traps" and we should ensure at most caution. Just following rules alone cannot guarantee safety as even our rules / signage are pathetic where one can see a speed limit of 80 kmph and within a few meters, there will be a sign to slow down to 40 kmph or there would a rumble strip or barricade without any signage as such. So on personal front, to drive safe, one has to buckle up, use a car that has good safety rating, don't take the wheel if your health is not good, watch what you eat while traveling, avoid any distracting discussions when driving, avoid phone calls as much as possible, have a proper life insurance to take care of your family financially and be attentive always irrespective of the favorable road conditions. Rest leave it to our road infrastructure, which can still kill you, as we Indians just compromise on everything.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by KPR

By bringing front seat belt reminder alarm I see a change among few car users. That irritating continuous beep force them wear belt. Ideally this should be implemented for all seat belts in car.

Forcing people to listen to continuous beeps will not make them wear the belt; they will instead look for defeat devices. Many already do it for the front seats, by clicking the belt and putting a seat cover over it, buying a 'belt-clip', to stick into the slot, to fake a belted passenger etc. What is needed is more awareness, not forcing people to listen to beeps.

Originally Posted by vegitakarthik

Exactly. Need seat belt remainder for all seats. Our new car Tata Safari has passenger seat belt remainder. Previous one didn't - Ford figo (Its a boon. Now the constant pinging irritates front passenger enough to make them wear seatbelts. They never listened previously) Rear seat belt remainder should be standardized as well for all cars.

See my reply below; people just get cheat devices to defeat the beeps. Give them awareness instead and motivate them to click in, and the chances of success will be better.

Originally Posted by Kiran Joshi

Hello

Pardon my ignorance.

Is it true that in case of crash, air bags will not deply, it seat belts are not on?

We have up to 7 air bags in main stream cars. Which seat belts are linked to which air bag sensors?

What's exact relationship between these two?

Regards

Without a seat belt, the person can be flung onto a rapidly inflating airbag at great speed, resulting in broken neck, whiplash, smashed jaw and/or death. An airbag is not a bag of feathers that one gently meets. It's a bag that uses an explosive charge to get pressurized in milliseconds. A seatbelt keeps the person from smashing into the airbag while the airbag provides secondary protection. Many cars are designed not to deploy airbags due to the possibility of whiplash injuries. Ultimately, both are needed.

[Kln]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Exactly. Please, let us have better roads, but this must come first, now, then and always.

Why should one come before the other? Genuinely curious. Why must this individualistic approach to safety come before holding authorities responsible?

I personally feel it's a bit heartless to blame a man of dying when a) there is no proof the car was 'overspeeding' (unnamed government sources do not count as proof) b) there is no proof he was or was not wearing a seatbelt and c) there have been multiple complaints and accidents at this spot because of poor road signage, design. But that's just me I guess.


Let me be clear, even if there is proof he was overspeeding without wearing a seatbelt, it doesn't absolve the government authorities of bad civic design.

The entire narrative is gleefully spun around 'yeah he died cuz speed without seatbelt' - without proof, mind you - while there has been no pressure by the public on the government for stricter road safety norms.

What do we have to gain by bemoaning the perceived lack of personal responsibility when tangible results can be achieved by pressuring the government.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by supermax

Forcing people to listen to continuous beeps will not make them wear the belt; they will instead look for defeat devices. Many already do it for the front seats, by clicking the belt and putting a seat cover over it, buying a 'belt-clip', to stick into the slot, to fake a belted passenger etc.
people just get cheat devices to defeat the beeps..

You're right. I have a zillionaire neighbour. Some sort of BBMP contractor or official. He or his wife are often seen in a selection of fancy cars. Jag XL, Porsche Cayenne, Merc GLA etc. Never are they seen wearing their seat belts.
Because they deploy these cheat devices. And we have such devices freely available at throwaway prices on Amazon and Flipkart and all. (See screenshot)
As you say, only grassroots level awareness can make the change. We have to all collectively BE the change we want to See.

[anjan_c2007]

An excellent analyses by Mr Bob Rupani of Overdrive on his blog today. His findings are very objective and are conveyed on the basis of factual details.

https://www.overdrive.in/news-cars-a...at-went-wrong/

It pinpoints the factual human errors on the part of the SUV's occupants, the truckers on the road stretch and the persons who were responsible in designing the ill-fated road architecture. In fact, such architectures dressed to KILL are a part of many such highways and super expressways all over the country. The wide roads converging from more to less lanes without signboards shock the drivers leading to mishaps.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Kln

Why should one come before the other? Genuinely curious. Why must this individualistic approach to safety come before holding authorities responsible?

It's a good question. I knew someone in Britain who was compensated by the local corporation because they tripped on an uneven pavement and suffered injury. But couldn't they have walked more carefully and avoided the accident?

Yes, perhaps they should have. And the corporation accepted their responsibility for their fault.

Yes, the authorities should be responsible and accountable. And change their ways towards proper design, engineering, implementation, maintenance. This is a dream, right?

But yes, the ultimate responsibility for each and every minute on the road is, as drivers, in our hands. Right now. And I applaud the newspaper for the article, which just might save a life because it made someone think.

Let them run a series on bad road design and maintenance: I'll applaud that too!

I personally feel it's a bit heartless to blame a man of dying when a) there is no proof

Frankly, this far into the thread, I am indeed unsure of what is fact and what is presumption. But it seems to be accepted that rear seat belts were not used, and this is key. The front-seat passengers survived, and it seems accepted they were belted.

What do we have to gain by bemoaning the perceived lack of personal responsibility when tangible results can be achieved by pressuring the government.

You and I and the next person to read this thread can change immediately. The can insist on seat belts for every passenger from this minute. It might change the outcome of the very next journey they make. Seriously, this is no exaggeration.

By all means, pressure government, national, state, and local. But it wont, can't, save a life tomorrow.

[subuiyer]

(Few points I could think of for the over-analyzers amongst us. Sorry to repeat, if this has already mentioned in any of the 250 odd earlier posts.)

Most of my Parsi acquaintances in Mumbai region are frequent travelers on the Udvada-Talasari-Dahanu-Palghar-Mumbai stretch.

The lot in this Mercedes were travelling from Udvada towards Mumbai on Sunday afternoon. Sundays, I always aim to get past Fountain hotel before 4:30 pm. After that the traffic behind the Bassien/Vasai Creek (Ghodbunder) Bridge swells, sometimes up to 2-3 kms up to 7 or 8 pm. Beyond Fountain, this group had another ~40 KMS to their homes in the island city, which is easily another 2 hours on Sunday evening.

Sunday was the 5th day - Visarjan day - impacting the regular traffic patterns. So most people in Mumbai/Thane will usually plan their travel around this event. Most likely try to reach their destinations in this region early evening.

[Sebring]

It was a brand new Black Corolla. I had pictures of the completely crumpled car in my old phone. There the emergency responders have a 7 minute response time to reach the site either by chopper or ambulance. They made it to the outskirts in under 5 minutes (Driving at crazy speeds on the opposite side to incoming traffic). That was a relief

Originally Posted by CarNerd

If you don't mind, Can you share the details of the car and the crash?

[tbppjpr]

Mr. Gadkari releases a statement of making seatbelts compulsory for all the occupants traveling in cars.

Well, a lot big of mouth talks regarding various road safety measures had circulated during the death of Gopinath Munde in car accident but nothing happened since then, so keep the expectations realistic.

https://youtu.be/tU3yw8OAUHg

[Hayek]

A very tough thread to post on objectively - since one happens to be acquainted with the victims of the accident, we have several common close friends, and Dr Anahita has been the gynaec who delivered many a friend’s kid.

The fact is that the accident itself is something that could have happened to any one of us or at the very least to me - when the cops say they were over speeding, the fact is that many of us would have done the same (viz drive at 120-140 kmph on “good” 3+3 lane national highways), overtaken trucks travelling in the right two lanes from the left (have you ever noticed that trucks moving at 50-60 kmph on highways always are on the right lane), and cut fairly late into the broader bridge where a three lane road suddenly breaks into two parts. The alleged average speed of 133 kmph is not too high either for a stretch between a toll booth and a bridge - we have posts of several BHPians who average above 80 on highway drives, tolls et al included, and I doubt the police has evidence of the exact time when the accident occurred - so it could well have been 120 if we work with 1 minute more time.

And that’s what makes this so distressing - people you know passing away too soon in a completely wasteful manner. Wanted to touch on a few points multiple people have made:
1) Cyrus Mistry travelling without an escort in a friend’s car was completely in character, and not unusual for several senior business leaders in Bombay - that very morning, I bumped into one of the senior-most doyens of Indian industry on my run on Worli Sea Face, and he was out alone and unescorted for his morning run at 530 am.
2) Blaming road infrastructure or other drivers makes no sense - we all know we have poorly designed roads, including instances where a marked lane suddenly disappears or leads into a wall, and have super slow moving vehicles and vehicles coming the wrong way even on our expressways. It is for the driver to watch out. The fact is that self driving technology below Level 5 will not work in India since roads signs can actually be misleading.
3) Saying you should therefore not speed or blaming speeding makes no sense either - the fact is that the results of such a collision would have been the same even if they had been driving at 80 kmph (leaving aside the fact that there is no evidence they were going faster than that). Speeds of 120-140 kmph are Normal on highways - it is a very rare car that follows the 80 kmph speed limit
4) I do hope people learn a lesson - accidents can happen to anyone, and wearing seat belts is crucial to make them less likely to kill. The fact is that the injuries even for the two survivors are almost certainly more serious than they would have been if the passengers in the rear had been buckled up and not hit them from behind.

Ending with a prayer for the departed souls and for the full recovery of the injured victims.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by Kln

Why should one come before the other? Genuinely curious. Why must this individualistic approach to safety come before holding authorities responsible?

I'm genuinely curious why the answer to this isn't plainly apparent to you already. Why would you not think of making a change for safety, a change you have 100% control over, right away, and then battle for changes which others control? Sure, safe roads are a very important thing, but surely you know that having safe roads doesn't on the least make seatbelts unnecessary? If anything, seatbelts will be even more important with better roads due to even higher speeds on great roads. The point of waiting to belt up till the quality of roads improves makes zero sense.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

But yes, the ultimate responsibility for each and every minute on the road is, as drivers, in our hands. Right now.

You and I and the next person to read this thread can change immediately. The can insist on seat belts for every passenger from this minute. It might change the outcome of the very next journey they make. Seriously, this is no exaggeration.

By all means, pressure government, national, state, and local. But it wont, can't, save a life tomorrow.

Exactly. Let's belt up first and increase our survivability right away, and then work towards increasing safety further, by batting for better roads, legislation, etc.

[subuiyer]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

An excellent analyses by Mr Bob Rupani of Overdrive on his blog today.
https://www.overdrive.in/news-cars-a...at-went-wrong/
... The wide roads converging from more to less lanes without signboards shock the drivers leading to mishaps.

Thanks, this is a very good deductive summary.

However, still mostly superficial if I may say so. Given the personalities involved sure some heads will role and some 'visible' (authorities like to go for low-hanging fruits) changes that scream 'safety' may result (yes am cynical). Already seen some reports of vehicle data being sent to Germany (to what effect and outcome, why is there no capability to analyze locally, not clear).

What we are missing in our country is investigations to the depths typically performed by the likes of NTSB and their equivalents in other countries. Their (and other similar agencies') causal analysis and the follow-through on remedial action by respective authorities is what makes their transportation safety as good they are in those countries.

At the end of the day, safety/systems is a culture (or mindset or whatever is the right word) and as a community we are a long way from achieving that.

At the very least, people who have been following this event on various media now know the significance of rear seat-belts.