[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by navin

Agreed. About 2 weeks ago, 2 tyres (left front and rear) got damaged on this section of road. My car has 235/45 R18s and no one knew how to fix them. Eventually, we got the car towed to Mumbai.

Maybe, next time you can call them to help you out if in a similar situation.

Originally Posted by navin

Can you link me to your post on the other thread? Thanks.

I think this is the thread he is talking about.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route...ml#post5355469 (Mumbai - Udaipur : Route Queries)

[supermax]

Originally Posted by RijuC

May the departed soul rest in peace.

Probably the Pandole family was mourning. Also, a senior Doctor must not be a very rash driver.

Earlier I was not aware of the importance of seat belts in rear passenger seats. The understanding developed after going through the road safety related threads in this forum. Now, I get belted up everytime I occupy the rear seats. And sometimes ask my colleagues to do so. Mostly ignore my request. Even my wife refuse to buckle up. Probably now she would understand the importance and follow the safety measures.

Being a senior doctor doesn't make one either more unsafe or less unsafe than any other road user. That she was at the wheel must have meant that the others had confidence in her abilities, but she probably took a few risks which shouldn't have been. Here in Sweden, each and every driving license aspirant has to undergo a special training session where one practices various kinds of emergency stopping, including on simulated wet and icy conditions. The consequences of not wearing a seat belt are also drilled into us. A 500 ml bottle of coke can become a 20 kg projectile when the car is at 60 km/h, so imagine what an unbelted 80 kg passenger can become, in a crash! If such training is made mandatory in India, people would be better aware of risks and might be more inclined to following safety requirements for their own safety, instead of doing it from the fear of fines.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by RijuC

May the departed soul rest in peace.

Few questions in my mind:

1. Mr. Cyrus Mistry was not an ordinary businessman. Even the ABCD businessmen, real estate developers, brokers in our vicinity move along with armed security personnel and couple of guard vehicles.

Agree with you and many others who have expressed similar sentiments. However, the driver can't be a driving enthusiast. Rash driving and passionate, enthusiastic driving are entirely different. All your points hit bullseye other than that one.

my viewpoint is that it's his way of life (minimum security, minimum visibility) that has led to this tragic incident. He should have used security detail of some kind, at least a pilot car. It looks like the man wanted to spend a day out with his dear friends and that too on a pilgrimage. Without any frills. No bodyguard, motorcade or anything that the average Indian businessman or Babu can only dream off, yet will covet even in deathbed.

Very tragic and untimely end for such a young personality. Another big void, a great loss for the nation after the untimely death of Rakesh Jhunjhunwala. May God bless his family in these darkest hours.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Crank

I feel IMHO, this accident couldn't be prevented by speed alone. However lives could have been saved. But it's an highway and 80 kph is a reasonable speed. 130 kph is still contested as there were conflicting facts around this.

Possible debates around the actual speed of the car are only academic and I have picked on the 130 kmph (very easy to achieve in a GLC/C class), as was discussed earlier on this thread, because it would be par for the course for most highways in the country..but not as I mentioned during the rains and with heavy traffic around me. That's just me because I do 120 myself and consider it a pretty normal highway cruising speed with drops to 90-100 if traffic gets dense. TBH I don't believe in pushing my luck on Indian roads and trust me I have some close shaves in 38+ years of driving. "Live and learn..and learn quickly" is my motto.

It's very easy to blame the driver as number one reason unless and until we are a driver in that situation. No one wants to throw their life or their kith and kin just like that. There are bad and rogue drivers. I don't think the driver in this case can be squarely blamed as number one reason. I would rather have seat belts are the first reason, second as the pathetic road condition and have driver as the last. Why we don't fight against the killer roads and just keep asking the drivers to drive safe? We just accept mediocrity. That's an Indian way of life, unfortunately.

The roads are getting better but still not upto the standards we'd want them to be. Less said about road discipline the better. So, given the circumstances I believe it is incumbent on the driver to make suitable adjustments to his/her driving style and speed. So, was it the fault of the car? Nopes it wasn't the car survived this crash admirably it did the job it was designed to do. The road? Hmm yes, poor design but that culvert was was always there and is marked + if you see the Google satellite photos shared earlier on this thread there are rumble strips to warn drivers before the 3 lane road merges into 2.

When I take the wheel, safety and responsibility of all passengers in the car are mine and solely mine. Period. I will take corrective measures or change speed or driving style depending on number of passengers, road conditions, car's performance and braking/safety envelope to ensure it. Driving without ensuring your passengers are belted up is irresponsible IMO. And yes I will stop the car or slow down to a crawl by the road shoulder should a passenger take the belt off during the journey. When the car is set in motion i want each person to be wearing a seatbelt. But then that's my view, a bit over the top possibly but, well, that's what I prefer to be - better safe than sorry.

Very valid points, except for one important one - road engineering. German Autobahn is made in such a way that there cannot be intrusions and minimize probability of accidents. Compare that to our highways!

Compare the discipline of those drivers and people in general to ours. And that's where the issue is. I narrowly missed a full grown water buffalo who chose to saunter across the road from the green bushes on the median while I was going around a long curve at 100-110 kmph. That herdsman didn't care. Trust me, I lost a few years of my life in those seconds. Ditto with a 10-12 year old kid who stepped out on the road again from the median. I was lucky and so was he that he didn't choose to run across. Holy moly! I stay smack bang in the middle lane the minute I see a curve or a village. You can't change our people. You have to change yourself and adapt to the realities of driving in this country.

[Rohan265]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Right-side curtain airbag has opened. Don’t know why didn’t the left side curtain open as well.

Impacts below 70% overlap induce a rotation of the vehicle and occupants in the opposite direction. In this particular impact, the right curtain airbag is deployed to provide cushioning against an anticlockwise rotational of the occupants as belted occupants are likely to hit the vehicle interiors during rotation. The left side curtain did not open because the lateral deceleration was not sufficient to warrant deployment.

Originally Posted by StopUnderrides

2) The attitude we need is what Thad has mentioned multiple times about his interactions with his Dad. Roads, traffic, weather are all external factors. The bridge wall was just there. It didn’t actively prevent or cause the accident since it’s an immovable object. Ultimately it’s the driver’s responsibility to drive “safely as per conditions”.

I am sorry, but this outlook is outdated in most developed countries. I have been trained by crash researchers/road engineers from developed countries and have regular interactions with them. On looking at this crash, their first approach will be to improve the road design by installing crash barriers, signage, road marking, road channeling etc. Most developed countries have moved on to the Safe System approach which has a primary principle that "All humans make mistakes and it is the duty of the infrastructure/vehicle to reduce injury severity". We focus too much on human error and never go to the root cause. Seat belt usage is no doubt important. However, the severity of the impact would have been drastically reduced with a well-designed crash barrier.

Originally Posted by Crank

How do you say that, considering that the front airbags indeed inflated? Rear occupants may not have

Again we cannot say that minimal occupant intrusion, considering the dash had came in. As per traffic authorities, they were traveling at an average of 133 kph in the last 9 minutes. The peak speed could be 150 kph. However there is a doubt on the timings as usually these accidents are dismissed by authorities as over-speeding and not following rules.

Most cars in India have airbags deploy irrespective of belt usage. That has been my experience at least.
Also, I would take the news reports with a pinch of salt.

• I have come across countless reports that mention the front occupants were belted and hence survived. The rear occupants were fatal due to a lack of belt usage. However, the vehicle interior video I saw clearly shows that the front passenger is not belted. I find it highly unlikely that an unbelted front passenger survived in this case considering the impact force and possible seat loading by both rear occupants. I believe that the front passenger is one of the fatal occupants. Coincidently this is a second high-profile case I have come across in the last couple of months (both in Maharasthra) where the occupant seating positions have been interchanged to show that "front occupants survived because they were belted and airbags deployed. The rear occupants died because they were not belted". In both cases, the front passenger is clearly not belted and has likely died.
• The reports on speed should be taken with a larger pinch of salt. First thing is that nobody saw it happen. Even if they did, it is not possible for an eyewitness to tell the impact speed. The speed is often exaggerated. Accurate speed is only possible through an inspection or getting the EDR data.

[Dieseltuned]

Originally Posted by navin

Agreed. About 2 weeks ago, 2 tyres (left front and rear) got damaged on this section of road. My car has 235/45 R18s and no one knew how to fix them. Eventually, we got the car towed to Mumbai.

Can you link me to your post on the other thread? Thanks.

I had posted some points in the Honda City thread : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5355458 (The 5th-gen Honda City in India. EDIT: Review on page 62)

points 3 and 5

and also in the Mumbai-Udaipur road queries thread : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route...ml#post5355469 (Mumbai - Udaipur : Route Queries)

Regards
Diesel

[proton]

Originally Posted by supermax

Here in Sweden, each and every driving license aspirant has to undergo a special training session where one practices various kinds of emergency stopping, including on simulated wet and icy conditions.

Absolutely! I have driving licences from several countries and was tempted to get one while staying for a year in Eksjo, near to Lynkoping/Norrkoping, but was dissuaded by my friend! Too much trouble for the short period, and I made do with my IDPL. Apparently they even check your tyres, in winter AND summer. God forbid you are caught with studded tyres in summer!

I overtook on 100 ft road in an Ambassador , and hit the three inch divider. My chest hit the steering and I had to sit down on the kerb for five minutes, while listening to the cop berating me for uprooting the lead stone. No reflectors, no yellow paint. Although only 20kph, the impact was horrible.

Diana's car was travelling at 45mph. Driver, she and Dodi Fayad , all unbelted, died. The results, even at medium speeds, are lethal.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by TheHelix0202

Sorry to be so blunt about it, but blaming things on "destiny" on a well educated car forum is plain rubbish and in poor taste. Let us not let out personal beliefs or value systems interfere here. It's by mere chance that this unfortunate calamity has occurred.

Chance is just destiny by another name. Let us not talk of either. All accidents have history and causes, and humans are usually at the top of the list. As StopUnderrides says...

Originally Posted by StopUnderrides

... Roads, traffic, weather are all external factors. The bridge wall was just there. It didn’t actively prevent or cause the accident since it’s an immovable object. Ultimately it’s the driver’s responsibility to drive “safely as per conditions”.

Originally Posted by am1m

I think a lot of it has to do with not being used to it when one started driving and then not willing to change. A lot of things are like that- I grew up not doing it, so it's ok. And then we tend to rationalize it and justify it, when actually that's all it is. ...

Seat belts are a complete waste of time! Mostly. I would be very, very happy if I can say, at the end of my driving life, that I never actually needed the seat belt. But if I stop wearing it, that driving life might, suddenly, get shorter . Long may it continue being a waste of time!

I'm touched by the number of thanks received by my previous post. Over 50 is a huge amount for me! Thank you all for the appreciation. It is sad that it has to be in connection with a tragedy.

My reluctant friend, by the way, was not stupid. She worked for the British Civil Service, joined one of the trade unions, and worked her way to top of the joint unions structure, negotiating at very high levels. That might shout "leftie activist" (she was) but, actually, the daily grind of such a job is more like being a senior management consultant!

Thank you to the poster of the dummy video showing what happens to the rear-seat passenger. That was an education for me too. Especially considering that the test speed was fairly low. Well within what many dismiss as being city speeds.

[KPR]

Lesson learnt:
Rear passengers must always wear seat belt, be it any car. It is high time that government impose rule of continuous alarm for rear passengers not wearing rear seat belts too.

[karanddd]

We can call for road improvement or whatever but if you are going at 130 kmph not much will save you. It's far above the legal speed limit in most parts of the world, even places where people drive far more powerful cars. Legal or reasonable road speed is not a function of the size or power of the automobile, but rather of the reaction time of humans. Even at 100kmph, accounting for an average reaction time of 2.3 seconds, if you slam on the brakes to stop for an obstacle, your car will travel ~100 metres before coming to a full stop. At 130 it's probably double that. It's not just road design but also the fact that barring maybe one or two stretches no Indian road is a genuine "free" way, in the sense it does not have lights, stoppages, cross-traffic. And 100 kmph is a freeway speed. Doing that on Indian highways is still very risky. If traffic fatalities continue to rise, I would not be surprised if a 80 kmph hard limit (similar to the one enforced on cab drivers & rentals) becomes the norm for all private vehicles. And as much as I like driving fast, I would have to grit my teeth and accept that such a limit is for the best in a country like ours.

[pramods]

May the departed souls rest in peace.


A very informative explanation "What Makes A Collision Lethal? | Neil deGrasse Tyson Explains..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2V-ik-slU

-Pramod

[autovarun]

Terrible tragedy! Condolences to the families affected.

With the state of our roads and even highways. Do you think car manufacturers should limit the top speed of cars to around 120 kmph?

Most passengers refuse to wear seat belts in the rear world over. Could we get some kind of warning / beep while car is in motion especially at high speed if rear seat belts are not activated.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

“Most Indians are fat”!?
Ridiculously insensitive and offensive remark.
Do share which airline you fly for, let’s send a snapshot of this opinion to them and see what they think of this cheap insensitivity/hatred towards their passengers (or the general public of this country).

Looks like a cocktail of racial hatred mixed with body shaming elitism topped off with pilots-are-superhuman trappings of misplaced pride.

Gosh! Can we not take anything with a dose of light humour. Can we not laugh at our selves. Let's leave this "we are always so offended about the slightest thing" to the rest of social media please. It's becoming a global malaise.

[Crank]

Originally Posted by R2D2

The roads are getting better but still not upto the standards we'd want them to be.

When I take the wheel, safety and responsibility of all passengers in the car are mine and solely mine. Period. When the car is set in motion i want each person to be wearing a seatbelt. But then that's my view, a bit over the top possibly but, well, that's what I prefer to be - better safe than sorry.

I do agree on these points.

Originally Posted by R2D2

Compare the discipline of those drivers and people in general to ours. And that's where the issue is. I narrowly missed a full grown water buffalo who chose to saunter across the road from the green bushes on the median while I was going around a long curve at 100-110 kmph. That herdsman didn't care. Trust me, I lost a few years of my life in those seconds. Ditto with a 10-12 year old kid who stepped out on the road again from the median. I was lucky and so was he that he didn't choose to run across. Holy moly! I stay smack bang in the middle lane the minute I see a curve or a village. You can't change our people. You have to change yourself and adapt to the realities of driving in this country.

The above is exactly my point in the second part of the reply. Buffalo coming in between has nothing to do with the driver or the herdsmen. Driver should be cautious, but how much, how long and under what circumstances? For the herdsmen, he has to move his Buffalo from on place to another in his village or town. Unfortunately authorities had laid the road in between, without neither understanding his problem nor that of the drivers. The highway should bypass the village with boundaries or go above the village without disturbing the herdsmen. If the road infrastructure is good, planned appropriately for zero intrusions, all these surprises including the 10-12 year old kid could have been averted. I do totally agree a lot of drivers make mistakes and make a hell for other good drivers. I am not disagreeing on that fact. However a good road infra can avoid a lot of this. For example there's a junction near my place with a flyover. The exits and the junction is planned so poorly anybody entering this area had to take at least 1-2 km de-tour and make a U-turn. The auto-walas, two wheelers and even some cabs come in the opposite direction and create risks for others. I am not defending them. But my point is a properly planned road could have totally avoided this breach and hence the risk to others.
Not to mention, traffic police wait on the other side hiding to fine those offenders. Sometimes, I feel authorities deliberately make these mistakes for traffic police to benefit from them.

At the end our road infrastructure is a challenge to all drivers and they just wait for accidents to happen.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by karanddd

We can call for road improvement or whatever but if you are going at 130 kmph not much will save you. It's far above the legal speed limit in most parts of the world ...

A combination of seat belts, air bags and not being in a very unsafe car will certainly save you.

It is about 80MPH. It is not far above the legal speed limits of many places. The British speed limit for motorways is 70MPH, and many people will consider 80MPH a cruising speed.

But I would not say, for sure, that those things would save one if the accident is slamming into solid concrete at such a speed.