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Old 15th September 2022, 12:12   #1
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Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Tata Motors is said to be working on a BS6-compliant 2.2-litre diesel engine. The updated engine could power the brand’s large SUVs in the future.

Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine-2021tatasafari01-1.jpg

Tata’s new 2.2-litre diesel engine is said to be equipped with a Lean NOx Trap (LNT) & a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and will require Adblue to meet BS6 emission regulations.

At present, the Harrier and Safari use a Fiat-sourced 2.0-litre diesel engine that makes 168 BHP and 350 Nm. It could be replaced with an in-house 2.2-litre unit, similar to what Mahindra offers in the XUV700.

Tata Motors is also said to be working on a new 1.5-litre turbo-petrol engine. It’s essentially a 1.2-litre turbo-petrol block with a fourth cylinder added to it.

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP share page!

Link to Team-BHP News

Last edited by Aditya : 16th September 2022 at 06:24.
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Old 15th September 2022, 12:33   #2
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Errr..Isn't this the Varicor being ressurected ? Wonder who is making these decisions, first they discontinue the engine citing BS6 and decide to bet completely on Fiat engines. Now they want to go back and resurrect it.

Anyway, I like this development. M&M invested in upgrading their big diesel portfolio. Now with Tata also going that way, the big diesels will stay on for at least a decade. Hope to see comparable power outputs to M&M's mHawk engines.

Last edited by padmrajravi : 15th September 2022 at 13:02.
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Old 15th September 2022, 12:39   #3
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Finally, I would say it is a very good move from Tata. I am sure that TATA not being able to crack the 5 star safety rating would be the trigger behind this (read oil filter entering the cabin in case of a crash). That said, there could be multiple additional benefits

1. Cost - An in-house engine would definitely prove to be cost efficient in the long run.
2. The 2.2l diesel engine in the Varicor 400 guise was a gem and would definitely improve the power and torque figures of Safari and Harrier to match the XUV/ Scorpio N duo. I am betting on this engine because diesels are a dying breed and TATA wouldn't invest on building an engine ground up.
3. They could also go back to the automatic that was used in Hexa versus the Hyundai sourced 6 speed AT (further cost benefits).
4. Possibility of a 4WD/ AWD with this older engine combination as seen on older Safari Storme and Hexa.

In addition to all this, I feel it is a good opportunity to resurrect the Hexa considering the Innova will move to the Hybrid powertrain soon!

This news, if true, is just reassuring that big diesels will stay for quite a bit in India.

Last edited by NTO : 15th September 2022 at 12:47.
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Old 15th September 2022, 12:42   #4
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Why would they want to design and engineer a brand new engine from the grounds up which is just a 10% increment over their current engine? New engines are designed for a 20 year lifespan minimum. Who knows what the automotive scene looks like after 20 years, especially for big diesels? There has to be something between the lines here.

The current 2.0 MJD compares well against Mahindra’s 2.2 CRDe and provides similar performance and economy in real world conditions. This engine is rugged and reliable, a proven engine. As it is, it has DPF and uses Adblue, and is BS6 compliant. This Fiat engine is also sold in Europe, so it should be able to meet the upcoming BS6.2 emission norms. So, what gives?

Perhaps this new engine is for commercial use.

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 15th September 2022 at 12:47.
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Old 15th September 2022, 12:46   #5
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

This is great news. I hope they make the engine both FWD and RWD compatible for accomodating both monocoque and BoF SUV.

It has taken 3 consecutive successful launches from Mahindra to learn this. I hope Tata will learn that monocoque and BoF SUV can coexist in their portfolio and if the products are good, it will succeed too.

Also, Tata should note that Mahindra has its set of turbo petrol engines, and bring their 1.5L and 2L turbo petrols sooner than later.

Along with the others, I also think its the 2179cc varicor engine (which has the block sourced from AVL). It's already used in the Tata Winger, without a turbo. It shouldn't be a big problem for them to bring it back. Harrier needs a facelift. It's been a while now. I hope they bring this before the end of next year along with the Harrier facelift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
Perhaps this new engine is for commercial use.
They already have the 2.2L engine in Tata Winger. They can make do with that for commercial purposes. I think this is for the passenger vehicles.

Last edited by Benoit : 15th September 2022 at 12:59.
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Old 15th September 2022, 12:58   #6
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
The current 2.0 MJD compares well against Mahindra’s 2.2 CRDe and provides similar performance and economy in real world conditions.
Performance wise this statement is correct, BUT this engine is damn costly for Tata. Their inhouse 2.2L Diesel which is currently doing its duty on Winger & Xenon is perfect bet for Tata to reduce the cost.

Although a significant work has to be done to match the D20/D22 of Mahindra. Mahindra had done a lot of R&D work over the last many years on these engines when Tata was busy framing the 2L MJTD engine sourcing contracts.

Last edited by UD17 : 15th September 2022 at 13:01.
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:11   #7
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
Tata Motors is said to be working on a new 2.2-litre diesel engine
A lot of us would be aware of the much discussed speculation that Tata has not sent their flagships for NCAP testing till now because of the FCA 2.0 MJD engine's oil filter intrusion problem that makes a 5 star rating all but impossible. Perhaps the diesel Harrier/Safari can finally get the full-marks rating they deserve with this new engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
Tata’s new 2.2-litre diesel engine is said to be equipped with a Lean NOx Trap (LNT) & a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and will require Adblue to meet BS6 emission regulations.
Something strange about this. Typically LNT is used for smaller engines and DOESN'T use AdBlue. Its SCR that uses AdBlue.
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:28   #8
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

It couldn't likely be the Ford 2.2 (which was being assembled in Sanand, IIRC), since Tata had signed a deal with FIAT to source (IIRC) 72K units of its multijet engine every year. I don't think they can back out from that deal easily.

Also, not likely that they'd develop a new engine just for the Oil Filter location. There are ways to draw pipes & relocate the oil filter. A simple Google search will show 100s of videos with oil filter relocation kits.

I think it's likely incorrect/fake news.
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:41   #9
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
There has to be something between the lines here.
Agree, apart from the obvious safety issue with the engine which prevents the GNCAP ratings and the contract with FCA for 70k engines per year(apologies to the member whose post/thread I have forgotten which had brought this to light).
It could also be due to some issues with FCA regarding the upcoming stricter emission norms or some unrelated issue.

Welcome the 1.5 turbo petrol and hope its a 4 cylinder unit this time around.

Last edited by shancz : 15th September 2022 at 13:42. Reason: typos
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:41   #10
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Tata's smaller cars which are made completely by themselves seem to be reasonably reliable / doesn't seem to face much issues compared to the harrier/safari. What's common in the Harrier and Safari is the Fiat engine which is also shared with the Jeep Compass which is also known to have niggles and service centers that can't fix them. Who knows, maybe this might result in a car that is actually useable. I'm willing to give it another try if they release it before my Scorpio-N shows up.
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:50   #11
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re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordrayden View Post
A lot of us would be aware of the much discussed speculation that Tata has not sent their flagships for NCAP testing till now because of the FCA 2.0 MJD engine's oil filter intrusion problem that makes a 5 star rating all but impossible. Perhaps the diesel Harrier/Safari can finally get the full-marks rating they deserve with this new engine.
To my knowledge 5* GNCAP is achievable even with the current FCA engine, its the cost (money+weight) associated with it that's a challenge.
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:57   #12
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Re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaur View Post
To my knowledge 5* GNCAP is achievable even with the current FCA engine, its the cost (money+weight) associated with it that's a challenge.
Not sure about GNCAP. All cars in India using that engine haven't gone for GNCAP yet - including Jeep Compass. The engine has a design flaw and so no OEM hasnt ventured into crash tests.
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Old 15th September 2022, 13:57   #13
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Re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaur View Post
To my knowledge 5* GNCAP is achievable even with the current FCA engine, its the cost (money+weight) associated with it that's a challenge.
Has been discussed previously in the Harrier thread. The problem is not the vehicle, but the way the engine in the sense that - RHD vehicles with this engine have been facing a challenge w.r.t front collision protection. LHD vehicles with this engine have been good on this part.
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Old 15th September 2022, 14:01   #14
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Re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

I believe it is a BS6 version of the same 2.2L diesel motor that Tata has used for the longest time. It will be modified, tweaked and packed with the latest emissions tech to meet BS6.

Again, this is my best guess.
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Old 15th September 2022, 14:09   #15
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Re: Rumour: Tata Motors developing BS6 2.2-litre diesel engine

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Has been discussed previously in the Harrier thread. The problem is not the vehicle, but the way the engine in the sense that - RHD vehicles with this engine have been facing a challenge w.r.t front collision protection. LHD vehicles with this engine have been good on this part.
Let me improve on my previous statement.

As known the FCA engine has a particular design/component that poses a challenge w.r.t safety ratings when used in RH drive vehicle.
To my knowledge this issue can be taken care of by making improvements/addition to the vehicle structure, mainly Body-in-White, however the cost (money+weight) associated with such changes is too high and effects product feasibility.

Last edited by Gaur : 15th September 2022 at 14:20.
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