[ashwin.terminat]

Since the powertrains of both these cars are the same but are quite different from what is offered on the market conventionally. Wanted to check with the community about what powertrain they have booked and why?

I have booked the Strong Hybrid of both cars. My reason being the majority of my use will be in the city and the improved fuel efficiency is a massive boon with the current fuel prices.

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[bijims]

I don't feel the Mild-Hybrid to be a good enough engine for such a big car and at the price point it sells at. The Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder's S Variant with Strong Hybrid technology seems the most VFM to me. It feels like the OEMs have gone for pricing their own technology cheaper, with the Strong Hybrid being cheaper from Toyota whereas the Mild Hybrid would most likely be cheaper from Maruti.

[arvind1k]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

I have booked the Strong Hybrid of both cars. My reason being the majority of my use will be in the city and the improved fuel efficiency is a massive boon with the current fuel prices.

Choosing Strong over mild hybrids for fuel economy still doesn’t make sense. The base variant sigma of grand vitara smart or mild hybrid is priced at 12.22 L OTR in kolkata vs Hyryder strong hybrid S variant’s 16.71L.
If we assume real world difference of mileage at 5 kmpl (27.97 minus 21.11 ARAI), for a monthly run of 2000 kms, the difference in fuel bill will be around 3500 per month, or 40-50 thousand per year.
It doesn’t make sense to invest 4.5 L more to achieve this much of fuel saving. An average household doesn’t drive their cars more than 2-3 thousand kms per month.

[tarmacnaut]

According to this article, the central government might cut on the taxes on Strong hybrids.

https://www.autocarindia.com/industr...ehicles-425827

It is a shocker to see the govt is currently taxing 43% on strong hybrids, while ICE and Mild hybrid get 29% and EVs get mere 5% taxation. Don't know what kind of logic is behind this heavy taxation on strong hybrids, when the government is running after reducing emissions.

So, if the taxes actually get reduced for Strong Hybrids in the coming year, then strong hybrid will actually make a lot more sense. Hope this happens.

[ajayc123]

Thanks for highlighting the tax aspect, but it is strange why govt has imposed 43% on strong hybrid vs 29% on mild hybrid, which is 14% higher. I can’t comprehend.

[baarish84]

I have voted for strong hybrid.

Fuel efficiency is of course important aspect, but another issue is lack of features in mild hybrid variant when compared to its strong hybrid counterpart.

So price difference for running of the car cannot be the only determining factor.

Ideally similarly featured car should be considered for arriving at break even.

Then there is maintainance cost. As Strong Hybrid variant will have less moving parts, maintenance can be assumed to be lower.

And finally some intangible positives, such as your peace of mind on account of some lower emission contribution from your car - assuming car runs on battery for 40% of time in City traffic.

[KL01toKA03]

I would prefer strong hybrid, but still not sure about the battery replacement costs. If it costs 2-3 lakhs to replace the battery after a few years, would there be a lot of difference in costs unless there is some seriously high running involved?


On a related note, how do the warranties for EV and strong hybrid batteries work? Is it pro rata or do they replace the batteries without any cost to consumers?

[VS1811]

Originally Posted by arvind1k

Choosing Strong over mild hybrids for fuel economy still doesn’t make sense.

With due respect, i don't think that's how the economics of the car ownership should be looked at, as there are various factors in play which have been skipped. Let me try and give a more real world scenario to establish how its much more viable to go for the strong hybrid.

Lets talk about my case where i want to go for only the top model with either engines and i stay in Gurgaon. I also only have 10L for down payment and rest would be a loan.

Alpha + strong hybrid costs ~22L on road whereas Alpha mild hybrid costs ~19L on road. That's a difference of 3L but is that how we will be paying it? In most cases, no.

In my case, considering 5 year loan tenure, loan amounts come to be 12L for Strong hybrid and 9L for mild hybrid. This translates to EMI of 24.5K and 18.5K respectively. A monthly difference of 6K.

Now, lets assume a real world emi of 25 kmpl for Strong hybrid vs 15 kmpl of mild hybrid. (Please note that strong hybrid mileage infact improves in city driving conditions and low speed stop and go situation hence expecting 25 kmpl is fair.) Considering even a very basic running of 1,200 kms, that translates to a monthly saving of 3K and now, the extra monthly emi you pay is only 3K.

Now, for that 3k, first lets talk about the additional worthwile features you get:
- Wireless phone charger
- Head-up display
- Digital instrument cluster
- Tyre pressure monitoring system
- Arkamys sound system
- Ventilated seats

Secondly, as per the reviews, the strong hybrid is definitely a better performer and more sprightly uptill ~120 kmph. So, in essence you get a better engine and technology.

Thirdly, and most importantly, analyzing the current market dynamics and macro economic shifts towards EV and hybrids, the strong hybrid would easily fetch you a 2L - 3L difference (if not more) at the time of resale down the line. (for me, that would be 6-8 years). Do consider that 6- 8 years down the line, exclusively fossil fuel powered cars would be a dying breed if not dead already and government for sure, would be pushing to phase them out, thus making them also a hard sell in second hand market.

In conclusion, for the monthly 3K more, what you get is more features, better performance, future proof car. Add to it, the fact that you will recover even more amount than invested at the time of resale makes it a complete no brainer for me.

Ofcourse, you need to be okay to lose some boot space !

[inwester]

Originally Posted by arvind1k

If we assume real world difference of mileage at 5 kmpl (27.97 minus 21.11 ARAI), for a monthly run of 2000 kms, the difference in fuel bill will be around 3500 per month, or 40-50 thousand per year.

I think this assumption based on the claimed fuel efficiency figures are a bit misleading. In real life, this size of car/engine with a hybrid will easily give you at least 25 kmpl regardless of driving conditions vs. say around 15 kmpl for a Petrol engine (with mild hybrid tech). From my personal experience, the mild hybrid doesn't really deliver in terms of fuel efficiency as they make it out to be. Now the equation is fairly in favor of the hybrid. You're looking at a savings of around 35,000 per year with 12,000 kms of annual usage. Add on top of that, given India's history, Petrol prices only go one way.

[buntee90]

Originally Posted by arvind1k

Choosing Strong over mild hybrids for fuel economy still doesn’t make sense. The base variant sigma of grand vitara smart or mild hybrid is priced at 12.22 L OTR in kolkata vs Hyryder strong hybrid S variant’s 16.71L.
If we assume real world difference of mileage at 5 kmpl (27.97 minus 21.11 ARAI), for a monthly run of 2000 kms, the difference in fuel bill will be around 3500 per month, or 40-50 thousand per year.
It doesn’t make sense to invest 4.5 L more to achieve this much of fuel saving. An average household doesn’t drive their cars more than 2-3 thousand kms per month.

The comparison is not fair! Hyryder S hybrid variant should be compared with Grand Vitara Delta AT variant as both are Automatics and similarly equipped.

Now the difference between these is ~2L OTR in Delhi .

For monthly running of 1k KMs and average mileage of 25KMPL and 15 KMPL the savings come to around 2.6K in fuel(Rs100/L). which translates to 31k a year. The savings go up significantly if monthly running is more.

The fuel Savings alone will cover the EMI difference if your running is > 1200Km per month.

My running is less than 1000km so I have booked GV Delta AT Mild Hybrid for now hoping it will be delivered before Diwali as my Brezza Zxi AT delivery timelines are not clear.

[Mustang_Boss]

The hybrid is very good but there is no point in choosing it.

If you are not going to cover more than 10000 kms in city a year, whats the point of paying such premium for these cars.

If you hit highways frequently, the mild hybrid with Auto box has a strong advantage over here, considering the way it revs over the range.

[superbad]

Originally Posted by VS1811

Thirdly, and most importantly, analyzing the current market dynamics and macro economic shifts towards EV and hybrids, the strong hybrid would easily fetch you a 2L - 3L difference (if not more) at the time of resale down the line. (for me, that would be 6-8 years). Do consider that 6- 8 years down the line, exclusively fossil fuel powered cars would be a dying breed if not dead already and government for sure, would be pushing to phase them out, thus making them also a hard sell in second hand market.

In conclusion, for the monthly 3K more, what you get is more features, better performance, future proof car. Add to it, the fact that you will recover even more amount than invested at the time of resale makes it a complete no brainer for me.

Ofcourse, you need to be okay to lose some boot space !

Other than ventilated seats, all the other features can easily be added for around 50k tops in the aftermarket.
Secondly & more importantly, you have assumed the resale value of strong hybrid to be better than the mild hybrid. This is a pure assumption since we don't know how the second hand car market dynamics would be for strong hybrid vehicles.
I personally feel resale would be lower because of the battery degradation factor & lesser number of years until warranty expiry.
Yes there is a shift towards EVs & hybrids, but considering our infrastructure & high cost of vehicle ownership, simple, pure ICE cars are here to stay atleast for the next 20 years.

[SoumenD]

If I want the mild hybrid, will simply go for Brezza and save some money. If going for Grand Vitara/Hyryder, has to be the strong hybrid. Pricing seems a little optimistic and GNCAP results are awaited. If it manages a stable bodyshell, Strong Hybrid is where I will put my money.

[AAD]

I Voted for the Mild Hybrid as that is the version which gets AWD though with Manual Transmission. This makes it a unique offering in the market with little competition in its price segment. In my view AWD is as much a safety feature on some of our rain drenched, pot holed and muddy highways as offering greater go anywhere capability.

I drive an Automatic Fortuner 3.0L with Permanent 4 wheel drive and on my regular Mumbai Nashik runs or Mumbai Pune runs, she grips the road very well which is quite confidence inspiring.

Guess the Maruti or Toyota twins with AWD will offer similar grip confidence, of course without the low range capability offered by the Fortuner.