[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by GTO

- Diesel percentages of Nexon, i20, Altroz, WR-V & Venue show how diesel small cars are more or less finished. Goodbye, budget diesels. How Maruti predicted this trend is just remarkable.

I was in waiting list of I20 and Venue for over 2 months. Nothing got allocated.

The way the diesel products are priced, you can buy another petrol car and run for 1.3 lakh kms with the difference in price and you can break even. [Considering interest cost for ~5 lakhs loan]. After all this stupidity, you would still end up with a decent running petrol car.

You need not be worried of governments banning Diesel cars and what not.

My assumptions, Diesel still makes sense, but pricing is not at all sensible. The wait is beyond imagination. The norms are much worse.

I dont mean any disrespect, but by throwing car owners away, the diesel consumption is by generator or other low class guys who don't even maintain their engines, who end up with much worse emissions.

[man_and_machine]

Just the right thread at the right time. I think if this thread were to evolve into a helping guide for new car buyers on how to look ahead 5 - 7 years (I know no one is a soothsayer, but we can share perspectives and knowledge, and look at empirical trend lines) it would be really helpful.
For a new car buyers buying the right product matters. A car has around 15 years of good useful life and then becomes a beater. Some treat them differently, but mostly that is the taper down period. Each buyer looks at some value until they own it, of course there is the pleasure and emotional aspect to car ownership. The long term value of the platform (engine type included) matter, a lot. Like, when the trend moved away from sedans to cross-over, you can see the value of pre-owned sedans dipped. Similarly, the movement from petrol to small diesels.
With the diesel mix changing and in many aways irreversibly, how should a new car buyer, especially ones buying say 30L+ think? They are negligible environmentally conscious buyers who choose petrol over diesel. The BS standards are the primary driving force. With the BS upgrade cycles now almost 3 - 4 years apart the relevance of a diesel heart is changing quickly. What is bought will remain, but with the models being discontinued a few years down the line you will see less and less of them on road, maintenance will get expensive, perception of part availability and in general the relevance and freshness of a model will quickly die down.
So the calculations done today, assuming some economic returns will change quickly. If a 40L car after 5 years fetches, 15L during a re-sale then the capital cost of owning it will be ~1300 per day. v/s if that would have fetched 25L.
Adding to this mix, is the change in fuel type itself. It would be less of diesel v/s petrol mix and will be more electric v/s non-electric.
Does this mean, its now time to buy a pre-worshipped big heart diesel, enjoy the remaining lifetime with better economic outcomes? Or, invest in pricey new diesels (and with the same argument a pure petrol), and wait and see how the future unfolds. These are surely foggy times.

[vredesbyrd]

OT:
Through triple digits, they're still selling Alturas G4.
That means, spares will be there at least for a few years, right?

Because if I go for a used BoF in 1-2 years, it is the one which has everything I need from the get-go: Android Auto/Carplay and 360 Camera. I don't need to spend a single penny on upgrades.

Whereas for the Endeavour, no phone display support in first year (2016) and 360 camera solutions don't look very confidence inspiring.

Fortuner? Will need full head unit change but on the other hand, dealerships provide a very nice stock 360 camera accessory.

Let's hope the Thar-5 and Jimny are launched soon and don't disappoint.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Hyundai Alcazar's numbers look pretty interesting. For what is perceived as a "just adequate" performance of the 1.5 CRDI with 115BHP , it appears that people are comfortable with it over the petrol variant, which ideally should be the choice for that car.

• Negligible upfront cost difference between petrol and diesel variants. You can see this conundrum frequently in the official thread.
• Petrol displacement looks big only on paper. If you take for a spin, the petrol feels adequate as well.
• Misses out on base petrol AT, but gets a base diesel AT. And diesel AT is across trims.
• Gets cross shopped with Kia Carens which is a lot cheaper upfront, that's got 2 petrol variants.
• Hyundai petrols offer depressing FE with same driving habits. Fuel cost/km will be close to twice of diesel. The petrol cost would get compared to Innova Crysta.

[HighRevving]

SUVs become extremely boring, even frustrating to drive without enough torque. I have driven small NA petrol SUVs extensively and can tell you how their throttle feel. Empty. Can't even imagine taller, heavier SUVs being powered by them. No wonder manufacturers either sell turbo diesels or live with poor petrol sales when it comes to SUVs.

Some like Mahindra who have been trying 2.0T Petrol engines are plagued with FE woes but they are still managing to sell them well; maybe other players will offer decent turbo petrols and we will see a change in this trend - look at the trend in luxury segment with Mercedes offering AMG SUVs and BMW with 30i/40i engines - petrol luxury SUVs today, sell!

People might buy turbo petrols and live with low FE, just like they are doing with small turbo petrol engines (like 1.0/1.5 TSI) - convenience and drivability over FE. Because to me, an SUV with under 250-300 Nm of torque is the reason why petrols SUVs don't sell much.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by narayans80

[list]
[*]Gets cross shopped with Kia Carens which is a lot cheaper upfront, that's got 2 petrol variants.

In fact its interesting how Hyundai and Kia have approached their people movers. Carens seems more purposefully built for interior comfort of 7 pax, while the last row in the Alcazar seems more of an afterthought. Although both are essentially extensions of the Seltos/ Creta platforms.I really wonder what is the thought process behind the need for extracting 2-3 kmpl , considering its lack of significant impact on overall lifetime ownership cost in this category of cars.

[volkman10]

Tata Motors and Mahindra and Mahindra have not given upon diesel. Toyota to continue with Innova Diesel even as HYcross makes its debut.




Link

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Remarkable, Maruti , this adjective and proper noun don't gel well in a single sentence, reasons -

.........

4) Maruti does not have the engineering skills to come up with a diesel engine, remember the 2 cylinder on the Celerio.
.........

This is just ridiculous. Discontinuation of diesel was a pure business decision by Maruti that is well validated by the statistics placed above. A large / huge enterprise like Maruti cant be run just on emotion dear!