[Voodooblaster]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Whatever steps they may take against the errant employees (if at all), any employer cannot block an employees provident fund
Cheers

There are many(unethical?) ways by which firms retain PF money

Happened to an acquaintance at around 2013. Guy completed Diploma in Automobile engineering in 2012 and was working at a dealership workshop

He got a better opportunity in the Middle East based on his work experience. He intimated his intention to quit and requested experience certificate from dealership

Dealership was not very happy and they wanted the PF (Company contribution) back, failing which the relevant experience certificate wouldn't be issued. So the employee had to pay the amount in cash to get the certificate

As per prevailing rule at that time, employee would be paid back PF corpus (minus 30% deduction) provided he gave a declaration that he won't be working for the foreseeable future and doesn't want to port PF to a different employer. This amount was credited to employees account approx 6 months after his exit.

[Capri89]

Originally Posted by Voodooblaster

Who will foot the compensation bill is the 1.50 lac ruppees question ?

Dealers can have insurance against unnamed perils.

[Hayek]

My views are not going to be popular but this is a classic example of the “Matsya Nyaya” that prevails in lawless societies - where the Big Fish swallows the smaller ones.

The dealer behaved inappropriately here. If the car got damaged BEFORE it was registered in the OP’s name, he had an obligation to mention this and give the OP the option of taking a different car - and the selling this with full disclosure to someone who was not as fussy (I would personally not mind buying a car with a small touch up if I know about it and am getting some benefit for it). If the car was damaged AFTER it was registered, he still needed to repair it at his cost and let the OP know and offer some small compensation (but legally he would have no obligation to offer a replacement). By not letting the OP know, he clearly violated his duty.

The behaviour of the Government of India officials (friends of the OP’s father) who grossly misused their authority to bully the dealer into replacing a registered car and giving ₹1.5 l compensation for a minor scratch was egregious too. This is not a car that was in a major accident which was being sold, there was no case for a replacement after registration. But given that the OP’s family are bigger fish than the dealer, they got their way.

Depresses me that so many of us think there was nothing wrong with what the government officials did here - the job of the government is to enforce the law uniformly, not to bully violators to help friends .

[neoonwheels]

I have been to this dealer's service center and the way cars are driven and kept there would upset you to no end. In a space which can accommodate may be 30 cars, you can see 50 parked inch from each other. Drivers keep alternating the positions based on which car is needed when. I was not at all surprised to learn OP's car's panel was repainted. If a car goes to the workshop for PDI/polish etc, chances are high that it would get scratched sooner than later.

This is just one case that came to light but I am sure this is regular practice in this industry, what matters is how the manf handles it when its brought up to that level. I remember MS took an action on a dealer where a Baleno had gone for service with dashcam on.

Lets hope Akoya learned the lesson and wont try to fool around in future at least.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Hayek

1. The dealer behaved inappropriately here. If the car got damaged BEFORE it was registered in the OP’s name, he had an obligation to mention this and give the OP the option of taking a different car - and the selling this with full disclosure to someone who was not as fussy

2. The behaviour of the Government of India officials (friends of the OP’s father) who grossly misused their authority to bully the dealer into replacing a registered car and giving ₹1.5 l compensation for a minor scratch was egregious too.

3. Depresses me that so many of us think there was nothing wrong with what the government officials did here

4. the job of the government is to enforce the law uniformly, not to bully violators to help friends.

1. Absolutely and what seems like a counter thread (As an automotive dealership, how do we deal with a new car which is repainted?) to this, the workable solution seems to be what you suggested, which IMO is fair to both parties.

2. Agree and I feel the same, that wasn't a fair compensation for the dealer in this case.

3. That's the tragedy here when the smaller fish is cornered into submission. 80-90% of the customers will be the smaller fish so its the suppressed anger/emotions materialising when you see the "other" being cornered.
I am very critical of the dealers when they don't do what is supposed to be done and if so I take my money elsewhere to someone who deserves it. But it would be wrong to paint all dealers in bad light like we, as customers, wouldn't like to be painted in the same light as anyone else.

I am repeating myself from the counter thread but empathy and respect should be the underlying principle of this equation. Applies equally to both with the initiative resting with the dealer.

4. That's the larger tragedy which impacts our country. Keeping to this topic only, if the well connected can get what they want by pulling a few strings, why do we expect any sort of customer protection law being effectively enforced.
Nothing against the OP, it could've been anyone, in any capacity, in any situation and that's a fact of our lives.


The overarching lessons from this, for us as customers is to understand what is expected from the dealer and they deliver that. For the dealers is to be transparent and considerate of customers emotions. Both should maintain a constructive and cordial communication even when the unexpected happens as having a relationship based on trust goes much further than we think it does in businesses like this and in general.

For customers in case the dealer errs and isn't open to make amends, the manufacturer should be the first one to be contacted and given a chance(in hours/days) to set things right through their internal channels rather than broadcasting on social media the minute things don't go as expected. The same applies to service. But this doesn't mean doing whatever they say or letting them drag things indefinitely.

The importance of a thorough PDI during daylight is paramount.

[poloman]

When you are in the process of purchasing car, make the dealer understand that you are not a pushover and has eye for details. 90% of customers wont be able to identify a painted panel. So dealers may be out of genuine reasons like bird poop or minor scratches resort to repaint the car and try to present in a flawless state. But if you are a perfectionist, communicate clearly that you wont tolerate any flaws or repainting in the allotted car at time of delivery( not PDI). At the time of PDI also make your intentions clear, that you are serious on such stuff and mark the panels so that in event of minor incidents he will report to you not brush things under carpet. Once the car is registered no point in making such dramas.

When I was buying my Innova I made this very clear to the SA. I wont tolerate any flaws and make sure registration is done only after I do a final inspection. No stickers or unwanted accessories with out my approval. Still had minor scratches on a interior panel But let that go since there are no cars with out any flaws.

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

\connections.

OT:
To your last point on repainting, you can paint it as many times you want as it is after all your own property but it has no bearing on this case as this is some one else who didn't acted in good faith after receiving money.

My point is different, when you sell your car, you are not going to present the car with a detailed history of all the panel painted or some minor repairs. In a city like Bangalore, it is very difficult to maintain your car scratch less. So if you go around to buy a used car with a paint meter, you wont find any such flawless car.

In this case the dealer took back the car and paid the entire amount including registration to the customer. There itself he lost around 2-3L minimum. On top of that he was extorted an amount of 1.5L as compensation, some of which might have gone to the Govt of India official who is allotted to look in to car paint issues. I strongly suspect this is a Police higher up, looking at the speed with which the dealer came around.
The dealer lost around 4-5L here. May be what he get by selling 10 cars. If it was indeed bird poop, was this justified?

[Voodooblaster]

Originally Posted by Capri89

Dealers can have insurance against unnamed perils.

I don't think any insurance company will cover this particular incident

The repainting expense can be covered

Legal liability of the dealer can be covered by Insurance Company (with strings attached)

This compensation is not through a legal forum, and probably not covered through insurance

[Nalin1]

So much hue and cry for a repainted panel!. whooo!.

I would have happily opted for a full paint and the ceramic coating offer and moved on to the most important part of all this exercise- Enjoying the car !. I would not have even bothered about the dealer lying in the first place and trying to cover up with flimsy excuses and all that. That is fully expected from any dealer, nothing to do with SKODA. Though at first it might seem irritating and frustrating when the lies are discovered, at the end of the day what is the objective?? Buying a car!. That is what I will be concentrating on fully.

After all this drama, still the task of buying a car is pending. That is the most amusing part .

[ABHI_1512]

And here I am, fighting a dealer and computer major for the last 12 years for selling me a discontinued laptop. Even after winning the case in district consumer forum, the case lingers on in the subsequent higher forum !!

Just putting a context here, if you have the right point of contact, one can surely have their way. That said, OP was right in pursuing the case forward, I would have done the same if I was in the same position but may have stopped at the full refund only. OP got the full refund and that was phenomenal at the first place and then, he got the compensation too. The dealer was put under tremendous pressure to have come to the position surely.

Sorry for being off topic, mods are free to delete.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by poloman

My point is different, when you sell your car, you are not going to present the car with a detailed history of all the panel painted or some minor repairs. In a city like Bangalore, it is very difficult to maintain your car scratch less. So if you go around to buy a used car with a paint meter, you wont find any such flawless car.

In this case the dealer took back the car and paid the entire amount including registration to the customer. There itself he lost around 2-3L minimum. On top of that he was extorted an amount of 1.5L as compensation, some of which might have gone to the Govt of India official who is allotted to look in to car paint issues. I strongly suspect this is a Police higher up, looking at the speed with which the dealer came around.
The dealer lost around 4-5L here. May be what he get by selling 10 cars. If it was indeed bird poop, was this justified?

OT
Of course, yes. Now most organized car buying companies check the paint as well check the panels (I know at least Spinny does that) and will obviously lower their quote. If you are a used car buyer, it is your wish to what extent do the due diligence like a new car buyer. There are people who don't know car buying and buy even accident repaired vehicles and struggle with repairs and at other extreme risk averse people like me who will not touch a used car even at a mouth watering deal.

Now on the topic on hand, in my view the loss that you calculated is justified not for the bird poop but for the dishonesty and lack of transparency. But if it is only indeed a bird poop that caused panel to be repainted and the consequential loss caused is the biggest ever known to me

[smilenow]

A teacher of law here,
This thread sums up the difference between real life application of law when government officers are involved and law as it exists in the books. I am saving this for my students to read.

Half of the responses seem against the Author since he prima facie used the might of the civil services to get a full refund instead of following it up in a court of law. I agree. In addition, I think a lot of folks would have done the same if they had the contacts, the clout and had this very remedy available to them. Just how the system works and a beautiful summary of "it is what it is".

Thank you to the original author for sharing this experience. I won't comment on what you did or how you did it, I just wish to express my gratitude that you shared this and us common folks got to know about a valid unofficial route to get a refund without getting into the formal process.

Whether it was correct or incorrect, doesn't matter as the refund is already done.

[Capri89]

Originally Posted by Voodooblaster

I don't think any insurance company will cover this particular incident

This compensation is not through a legal forum, and probably not covered through insurance

This won't be covered in the normal "off the shelf" insurance cover.

This has to be structured/customised based on a risk perception on a case to case basis. But such risks can be covered IMHO.

Mods : I think this part of the current thread should be moved to Insurance thread.

[V.Narayan]

The dealer was unscrupulous; that I get. The OP was entitled to a full refund; that also I get. But the extra compensation extracted under duress through a Govt official acting way outside legal boundaries I don't get. Indian courts do not permit a plaintiff to benefit beyond the actual damage suffered unlike USA where millions are paid for relatively minor lapses. A court in India might not have given the OP much beyond a full refund and some amount towards legal fees. An Indian court would look into the profit margin of the dealer on that car while determining any damages that it might award. I am no legal expert but I seriously doubt the award for harassment would amount to Rs 1.50 lakhs or any number close to it. So has the OP benefited beyond what a court might have awarded to him . Do two wrongs make a right. And mind you I am not even touching upon the matter of a Govt official misusing his office for a financial gain {albeit not to himself}.

It is also a matter of grave sadness that Govt officials at the so called 'highest levels' are willing to extend their office to resolve a consumer dispute and to misuse their position to show their muscle. It achieves very little other than demean the office that this worthy holds for a brief period of time paid for by tax payers like all of us.

[Vtach]

Originally Posted by MarkivSkoda

People who are talking about using contacts, arm twisting & extortion.
Anyway, finally its over and I am done with Skoda for this lifetime, at least!

There's a tinge of unexpressesd envy if I may call it, sir, in these utterances. Of not having the kind of resources that you could summon to bear upon the unscrupulous cheater for swift justice. That's what we all want for ourselves but can't have you see!

That it's all too common a practice to repaint, hide the damage, blatantly issue false excuses, blame it on the smallest guy in the pecking order, give repetitive false assurances doesn't make it a wee bit legitimate and has to be discouraged promptly with what matters most - monetary punitive damages.

Willful disingenuity as a requisite professional survival skill seems to be in fashion in selling cars but to the most of the us direct tax paying junta it's an unbecoming, repugnant way of going about life in general and monetary transcations in particular.

I believe the 1.5 L is too puny a quantum to be of any deterrent for this outright section 420 misdemeanor, how I wish it was a exemplar one.The kind that actually hurts, not a mere rap on the wrists.

On the thoughts that a legal process ought to have been pursued instead, there's a report on a dude getting a new Sumo Victa awarded to him by the courts NOW after 17 years of slogging in the "test drive vehicles being sold as new" thread; having been fraudulently sold a test drive vehicle as a new one back in 2005.
Now I admire the man's perseverance, but what sort of justice is this? The thought of fighting it out for decades and then be awarded a outdated souvenir for your troubles does not appeal to me or give confidence of even thinking that way. I'd be inclined to rather make the cheater pay up using whatever means I have at my disposal (if I have any that is ), or make my peace & keep the 17 years!

[Emvi]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Now on the topic on hand, in my view the loss that you calculated is justified not for the bird poop but for the dishonesty and lack of transparency.

+1
Not just that, the compensation is also for wrecking the senior gent's retirement party. It was supposed to be a special day / occasion. I don't think it is that easy for anyone else to comprehend what the OP and his family members were forced to go through on the vehicle delivery day, can't really put a price tag on the distress. After ending a long professional career, the gentleman wouldn't have wanted to begin his next phase of life this way. Period.