[Kedrock]

Dear all

I request you to share your perspective on the topic.

As an automotive dealer, we handle the new cars with utmost care however, on rare occasions (while shifting the cars from stockyard to showroom) the new vehicles may get scratches, tiny dents. We send these cars to workshop and get them fixed (panel or panels repainted) before delivery.

Now, as we are delivering a new car we expect the prospect to treat the car as new only but almost all the times prospect demand a huge discount/ different car. On this forum also, almost everyone who's been delivered a repainted car treats the new car as a lemon/ used/ defective one. Many a times the dealer is labelled as fraud.

As a dealer my responsibility is to deliver a brand new car. If any defect in paint is observed in PDI we rectify the same before delivery.

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

Regards

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

As a dealer my responsibility is to deliver a brand new car. If any defect in paint is observed in PDI we rectify the same before delivery.

Could you explain what sort of paint defects you are talking about? Like actual defects straight from the factory or damage incurred during transport?

Originally Posted by Kedrock

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

First of all, why shouldn't it be? Factory finish is factory finish. When you go to the apple store to buy a new iPhone, will you take the display piece or want a sealed box? If you are to accept anything other than a sealed unit, you would ask for a discount right? So why shouldn't the same hold true for products that are 10x the value of a new iphone?
I have honestly never seen a repainted panel at a dealership that has been done well. Perhaps the case is different with luxury car dealers but otherwise I find the finish, attention to detail, paint matching and overall job done at dealers and ASCs has always been sub par not sure if it is the quick turn around times, the equipment, quality of paint systems used but definitely never seen a good respray done at any dealership for a sub 30 lac car. I suppose if the job is done well enough, then no one would even notice during the PDI

Originally Posted by Kedrock

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

If damage has been incurred while in transit, is there not transit insurance to handle it? If damage is done at the factory wouldn't the manufacturer be liable? If damage is incurred at the dealership level itself, then one must bear the responsibility, report it to the customer and offer some discount or meaningful freebies like extended warranty to gain their trust and perhaps not have as many un-trained people drive the cars?

[ACMerchant]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

Dear all

I request you to share your perspective on the topic.

As an automotive dealer, we handle the new cars with utmost care however, on rare occasions (while shifting the cars from stockyard to showroom) the new vehicles may get scratches, tiny dents. We send these cars to workshop and get them fixed (panel or panels repainted) before delivery.

As a customer I will always like a good bargain. From the dealers point of view I say that if at the factory cars are loaded or parked without scratches, tiny dents or any other defect in the truck or rail wagon then I suggest please train your unloaders (drivers) and also keep padding at those points where the driver feels the car may touch the wall/door of the truck/rail wagon. This way you avoid damages and also customer ire.

[vedirah]

I'm okay with touched up parts or repainted panels so long as the finish is good and doesn't stand out like a sore thumb. I understand that sometimes shit happens and the best course of action is also something that gives you the least headache. Getting the entire car replaced for a small scratch or dent is just beyond me. I mean, if you plan on owning the car for 5-7 years, you will inevitably scratch it a few times over it's life and get it repainted. So chill. If the paint job is not up to the mark, yes I understand the frustration. But most dealer paint jobs are so good these days that you wouldn't be able to tell it's repainted unless the dealer tells you it is.

But of course the dealer should offer a discount in return. Transit damage is the responsibility of the dealer, and that should be compensated.

[MyLife_MyCar]

We're price sensitive people and expect a discount even on a new car without scratches and dents. We might be driving 20L+ car and still expect sabziwala (vegetable vendor) to give us free dhaniya (coriander leaves).

So, when it comes to purchasing something that burns a hole in your pocket, be it car or expensive mobile or big screen tv, everyone wants a good bargain. Very few of us will be ready to accept a retouched product.

As a dealer, it becomes your responsibility to be transparent with customers and share the history of jobs done on a new car upfront. If customers find it out themselves, they'd lose the trust and expect a lot more discount, a replaced car or simply walk away.

What would you do if you were on the other end?

[padmrajravi]

The customer has the right to refuse delivery or ask for compensation/discount if the product he receives has visible damage. This is the case with any product/industry. Not just with cars. The person who was responsible for that damage in the chain of distribution must take the hit for that damage. I see this as a very straightforward assumption. If it happened from a dealer premise, he needs to let go of some profit margin.

The fair and ethical solution will be to be upfront with the customer and offer him a discount. If the customer accepts the solution, well and good. If he does not, then the dealer have to hunt for a customer who will accept the car at a discount and give the customer a replacement. Improving the dealer processes and sufficient insurance is the only way out of this. Everything else is bordering on sleight of hand.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

the new vehicles may get scratches, tiny dents. We send these cars to workshop and get them fixed (panel or panels repainted) before delivery.

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

It will be interesting to listen to some of the things from the other side

Complete honesty and transparency is what I practice and suggest. Keep that dinged/ scratched - part/ panel as it is and pass the rebates suitably. How much will depend on the damage or the type of vehicle.

A fast-moving long delivery vehicle people may glance and pick but a slow mover or more damaged may need deep discounting. Repair/ Repaint only after getting approval in writing from the customer for your records. Until such time do not touch the car or try to rectify it.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

If damage has been incurred while in transit, is there not transit insurance to handle it? If damage is done at the factory wouldn't the manufacturer be liable?

Insurance will cover the repairs, no Insurance is going to give a new car unless the damage is too much or the car cannot be repaired.

Originally Posted by MyLife_MyCar

As a dealer, it becomes your responsibility to be transparent with customers and share the history of jobs done on a new car upfront. If customers find it out themselves, they'd lose the trust and expect a lot more discount, a replaced car or simply walk away.

Correct, be truthful and let the customer decide. I am sure there will be many looking for a discount not bothering much about small things. After all, these are meant to be driven on the roads so who knows how and when that first nick happens.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

Let me tell my past experience with different dealers with body work. While most of them do a good job of paint matching and finish, the prep work sucks and this will show up a few years down the line with paint peeling off the edges, wavy textures, slight paint fade and so on. Hence, for me factory paint is factory paint and no one can come close to the quality, longevity and consistency. You might want to argue that you do a better job, but thats something that everyone does.

Hence, in that regard, repainted panel is a big deal for me, and so is a replaced panel which has been painted. Have had a bad experience with this one too. Having to live with a repainted panel for my own mistake is on me, but not because of someone else doing a negligent job handling my car.

Most of these damage during transit can be easily avoided with some care and concern shown by the people who handle these cars. The other unfortunate acts like maybe a major accident due to someone else's fault, etc would definitely have insurance to take care of. Thats a better area to spend money on rather than trying to fix damaged cars again at a cost which will eventually affect quality.

End of the day, these things might happen and these cars might have to be sold. When we can have a factory seconds option for even clothes, why cant we have it for cars? At least make it clear to the buyer that this is the case and you would offer a small discount. There are people I know who really dont care about repainted panels and head to the body shop frequently. These people can be easily convinced to buy these cars especially if a decent discount like 10-20k is offered. What is an absolute no is if these cars are sold without informing the customer, which is where a lot of complaints come from the moment someone checks out their new car and tells them that its repainted. I am sure its near impossible to hide the fact that a panel has been repainted. That again boils down to the issue with the quality of finish.

[neoonwheels]

1. Train your staff to be more careful while unloading or transporting the vehicle for delivery. When a customer pays money (Amount irrespective), the minimum expectation is to get the product at factory finish. I dont find this expectation unreasonable. Would you be ok if customer pays less than your purchase price?

2. If something like a small dent removal/repaint panel is done, its your DUTY to make the customer aware of the same. If you are fixing it without informing the customer, its nothing short of CHEATING

3. I agree that asking for a brand new vehicle for a small repaint at times may sound unreasonable BUT its customer's call as its his/her money. You may find a customer who would not bother given a discount but you just cannot push a product which is tampered with.

4. When you deliberately want to sell a car which is fixed for some reason, its obvious that you want to minimize any loss, then how come you expect the other party to compromise on something for which the whole amount is/would be paid. Best is to sit with the customer, discuss the issue and potential discount and then take a call. Skipping this just shows you and your company's integrity when it comes to do business.

Somebody has to own the mistake and why should customer be penalized for something happened on your watch? Similarly, during the ownership of the vehicle, would you fix the scratches for free?

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

Regards

1. Dealer has to be prompt enough to mention, yes the panel has been repainted and specify the reason for damage.
2. Agreement with seller and buyer is new car without any damages and as dispatched from Factory. A repainted panel might reduce resale value, repeated visit to service center if not painted properly , hence same needs to be compensated.

99% of the time, dealer hide the facts and are not honest in discussing with customer. This is to me is breach of trust. If customer agrees, win-win for both but if he does not dealer should not force. Wastage/damage is common in most industry and is often associated with some loss.

[shancz]

Thank You for joining in and sharing your perspective, makes the forum better and richer

I second what has already been said about being upfront with the customer and carry out the corrections only after approval.

Originally Posted by Kedrock

1. Many a times the dealer is labelled as fraud.
2. So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

1. These should be the times when the dealer has performed a repaint/repair, passed off the car as new and then got caught.
A lot of issues on the topic have involved the dealer denying any repaint/repairs taking the customer for a ride with nonsensical arguments and denying any proof a recent case would be this. Here even the proof of paint thickness was refuted by the dealership which only accepted since the customer was highly connected. Vast majority of customers would be left without justice as manufacturers typically side with the dealers.
Hence the need for transprency and openness.

2. Because that might be the 1000th car the dealer is handling but would be the first/only/dream car for the customer. Empathy and respect should be the underlying theme at any customer facing units and even more for big ticket items like cars.
On the other side if a customer is willing to spend over 1 lakhs on PPF/Ceramic coats to preserve the "factory paint" wouldn't it be unfair to expect them to accept a repainted car ?
Especially since you know better than anyone else about the difference between a factory finish and a workshop finish. There could be exceptions but I have still to come across them and primary issues including inconsistencies in paint spray, particles present due to contamination of the paint booth which is mostly due to the the improper cleaning and not adhering to protocols. Its not something new, take a freshly painted car to any detailer and they can point out the issues.


Solutions:
- An integrated effort between the manufacturer and dealers to minimise damage during transit by using special and reusable packaging for damage prone areas.

- Any damage post that is essentially at dealer's level so staff have to be trained and managed to take utmost care or lose their jobs. Personally I have found the yard/workshop staff at the dealers to be completely inconsiderate in handling new cars and that has to be handled by the dealers.

- Don't over stock cars at the yard. Maintain a minimum distance between cars being parked and determine a max number of cars that can be accomodated. Cramping in more would lead to contact and damage. This is further improved by the point on staff management.

- Repeating but don't take the customers for granted. Mistakes happen and recourses will follow but hiding facts and then denying that anything happened when caught isn't done.
Imagine looking at your brand new car in the sun and seeing a fender or a door which looks different from the rest of the car.
Imagine if this is your first car or your first new car, bought after years of dreaming and saving.
So any interactions and recourses should consider this in mind

- On the compensation, I don't see anything other than this to ensure an effective action against such mistakes.
For example:
If a dealer is open about a minor scratch that happened, shows it to the customer, gets an approval to repaint and then offers a paint warranty on the repainted part for 5years(a written warranty card) and a complimentary polish/ceramic token that should be good.
For larger scratches or damage it should be even more sweetened.
But in all the final decision should rest with the customer, whether to proceed/replace/refund.
IMO proceed will find way many takers than refund if the damage is minor.
What could also help is mentioning this policy in advance when the customer places a booking.

Good Luck.

[rohan_iitr]

Why can't the car manufacturers put some protective wrap on the painted surfaces to prevent damage during transit ? The cost would be negligible if done at the factory level.

If we can have a protective wrap for a INR 10k mobile phone screen, which already comes packed in card board box, a 10L car definitely deserves better packaging.

Just imagine the joy on the customer's face when he gets to personally remove the protective wrap from the painted surfaces.

OK, I already see a problem with this - some morons will never remove the protective wrap.

Rohan

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Because of the factor called - UNKNOWN
When the dealer admits honestly that a certain part is repainted due to the damage when moving the car from yard to showroom, as a Customer I don't know whether its a damage or a

daaammaaage

Some people start whipping their imagination that, this is just one part the dealer admitted out of 2? 5? 10?

When the dealer hides the paint job only to be discovered by Customer later, I'll don't tend to think, oh!! this is just one part, I'd rather tend to think, how many such things are hidden? I can blow my imagination from painting to dent work to replacement of parts to a whole new engine

Originally Posted by Kedrock

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

Surprisingly the UNKNOWN can be broken using TRUST. When the Customer trusts the dealer & viceverse, a whole lot of miracle can happen. It's better to be brutally honest rather than sweet lies, just that being brutally honest will gain Customer's trust in long run while sweet lies gains instant trust & when broken, the relation breaks for lifetime. There's also a middle path, which is very difficult to adopt as a dealer - being honest & sweet; the only downside being, Customers tend to take the dealer for granted, push them breaking dealers trust with them there by causing tailspin; so that needs to be played little careful by the dealer. Or Customer find another dealer who does sweet lying & tend to fall for it with all the efforts gone in vain.

When purchasing my SCross, we had a salesman, we were willing to accept a Silver SCross 1.6 even after 2 months, but he promised in a month. Just a week before the delivery date we were thrown a shocker that Silver SCross takes another 1 more month & we can have Caffeine Brown or White readily available. Needless to say that broke our trust. They tried to gain by throwing another 20K discount. And at the day of delivery promised at 3:00 Pm, we were there from 1:00 Pm & at 4:30 Pm they convey a message that the car starts when cold, but will never start once reaching operation temperature. They fumbled over & over again, requested a delayed delivery for 1 more day even after which they couldn't resolve. I had to pull some strings, thanks to a D.BHPian here (if you're reading this boss), who helped reach out to Sr Engineer at Nexa who resolved the issue in no time. So the culprit was the dealer who didn't know how to escalate & reach out for help!! Thankfully the service is handled by the GM himself till date who's gem of a person due to which the broken trust is re-establishing.

[lapis_lazuli]

For the OP, please don't mind, but the dealer community is hell bent on charging PDI charges, often is tens of thousands, and sometimes, exceeding a lakh! "Depot charges" I think? Maybe a part of that money could go to better train & pay more, the shabbily dressed, sorry looking, underpaid depot staff and the drivers, (who are a hugely disinterested set of workers), in charge of the "depot" and not ruin the car due to carelessness? I am sure, during the repaint process, 99% of the cases, the dealership does not even send the car to the paint booth for baking after the paint, often painting outdoors "rooftop" workshop, or using less compressor pressure or even clogged spray guns, because, "ek nozzal 1 saal chalani, saar" (read, orange peel)! So it may not be as "innocent" as is made out to be, sorry! It is nonchalance or utter disregard!

Indians in general, are not known to acknowledge mistakes, correct it and move on: it is mostly about how efficiently the buck can be passed on! Unfortunately, significant number of car dealers and workshops have indeed indulged in malpractices to make one, somewhat cynical.

[greenhorn]

The last few words in the original post hold the key. I believe in some of the earlier discussions on dealership and car profitability, it was bought up that per car margin for an average dealer came in the low 5 digit numbers (this was from several years ago) as most dealers deeply discounted their car prices in hopes of making it up on service or volume discounts, or getting better terms with manufacturers.
Things should be better now that things are on the dealer's side due to all these shortages, but i assume the pocket kedrock is talking of is not particularly deep. Scratches and damage are the cost of doing business in this end of the industry. If the damage is coming from outside, then it might be worth reducing the risk by looking at things like moving the dealership location to somewhere where the risk is less. A nice City center showroom might look nice but it will be impossible to drive a car there without getting scratches. You can have a flatbed truck to drive cars around but if you're inventory is too far away it will be too expensive. If you locate it in the outskirts your footfalls are going down the drain. If it's internal - ie junior folks messing up things, training could help, but I'm sure people are learning something every time they damage a car. Then why are you not able to retain these good people.


Ultimately i think it boils down to the fact that retail is a low margin industry, and most dealers are trying to balance cost vs risk and every thing has a trade-off, and when a dealership is stuck between so many hard places like the manufacturers, banks, labour market etc, the customer is the one with the weakest leverage. It's not that you decided one day to be evil and start screwing customers, it's just that crap happens, and better them than you.

In India if you're running a car dealership, you've already decided to lose. It's just that you get to choose how you're going to get there. people here will give you a long list of things you can do. If you try to do things right, your costs will go up, and your competitiveness will go down. prospective customers will buy from shady dealers who offer lower prices. You'll need to stoop to the level of the others, and we are back to where we started