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Old 4th February 2023, 09:28   #31
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

This is a most important thread, right now. Thanks Ron sir for starting it!

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/pm-...w/97588922.cms

E20 to be launched in Bengaluru on Monday, ahead of schedule (as per the linked article).

SIAM has stated that the industry is ready to meet the April 2023 deadlines on E20 compliance, but in the meantime keeping an eye out is important for new car buyers.

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Old 4th February 2023, 10:26   #32
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

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Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Any word on E10 coexisting with E20? Aren't 90% of the cars on our roads non compatible with E20? I guess the E10 supplies should continue.

Also do we still have E0 available?
E0, or pure unadulterated petrol, is no longer available. At least not in Delhi NCR. We are currently getting E10, E12 and even E15. Depends on lot to lot from the refinery/depot.

As per the official roadmap, E10 is to be phased out by 2028, which is just 5 years away. Basically, we are now transitioning from up to E20 to only E20. It is supposed to be all E20 after 2028.
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Old 4th February 2023, 10:32   #33
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Any idea if the RON 95, 97, 100 premium blends are also going to be (or already are) blended with ethanol?

Could not find any authoritative articles on this front.
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Old 4th February 2023, 10:46   #34
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Here is a comprehensive road map put forward by NITI and some very nice points by SIAM.

https://www.niti.gov.in/sites/defaul...compressed.pdf

RON 9x higher grades and Ethanol blending are independent things. High ethanol blending could also have high RON.
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Old 5th February 2023, 11:59   #35
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Some rudimentary Questions :

1) When E20 is sold in 'select outlets' from Feb 2023, will there be a board saying this is E20 fuel ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
We are currently getting E10, E12 and even E15. Depends on lot to lot from the refinery/depot.
2) How did you find out about E12 and E15 ? did it come out of a dispenser which just said "petrol" (the regular E10 blend) ?

The reasons for my Qs : Wherever I end up after online searching, invariably it says, your 'old' engine from the last two decades, can handle E10. However that is the 'limit' of operative ability for these engines. Beyond a 10% blend will eat away piston rings, pollute the engine oil and destroy it, which in turn will further destroy the engine. So, anything above 10% blend will set in motion many falling dominoes that will eventually kill the engine. Just read the abstract alone of this 2017 chemistry journal paper.
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Old 5th February 2023, 19:20   #36
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
There are entire dedicated threads covering the launches of the 2023 models of Creta, NIOS and Venue. You will find all details there, including the company issues press releases.




Steer clear of the 1.4 turbo petrol.

For tha Carens, the engine of choice is definitely the diesel, and paired with the TC automatic. Delivers good performance across conditions along with consistent fuel economy. The 1.5 NA is rather underwhelming. It is adequate if the car will mainly be used in the city. But it will struggle on the highways, especially with a full load.
Thank you for your reply.

This will be my second car which I will use for road trips. Max 8-9 thousand KM per year.
Do you think still Diesel will be applicable for me?
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Old 5th February 2023, 21:39   #37
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

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Originally Posted by itsanufy View Post
This will be my second car which I will use for road trips. Max 8-9 thousand KM per year.
Do you think still Diesel will be applicable for me?
Diesel is the only real choice here, the running is inconsequential. There is no point choosing an engine which will be dicontinued in a few weeks, and is sure to be a handful to own over time. And the NA petrol is weak for highway use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
Some rudimentary Questions :

2) How did you find out about E12 and E15 ? did it come out of a dispenser which just said "petrol" (the regular E10 blend) ?
Right now, the only way to find out is to ask the petrol pump attendants. They might know. The owner/manager of the pump know, and they come to know that the lot they are getting is E10 or E15 or whatever only once the tanker is billed to them. So, it is possible that the information may be conveyed to the attendants running the floor. But there is no gaurantee. Fact is that the petrol pumps have no control over what fuel they get from the depot.

In any case, we are already well past the E10 threashold of legacy engines.
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Old 5th February 2023, 22:41   #38
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

I was wondering will this cause corrosion and other effects in older engines, like 5 year old petrol vehicles.
Does it mean there would be issues cropping up which were not seen before? I think government is not even considering what would happen at the ground level and only wants to showcase to the world that we are reducing emissions etc. before the projected timelines.
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Old 6th February 2023, 09:50   #39
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Are OEMs going to touch the higher octane petrol too? I hope Govt has handful of sensible folks who would bring in a policy to continue to use both E10-20 and let current owners run their vehicles for few more years. Govt is not going to take care of repairs of our cars and should think about the consequences for owners.

If they push manf to manufacture only E20 compatible engines going ahead, we will slowly see the adoption of E20 among users too.
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Old 6th February 2023, 10:57   #40
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

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Are OEMs going to touch the higher octane petrol too?
XP95 is ethanol blended already. It is very much possible to have high octane rating in an ethanol blend.

Octane rating and ethanol blending are two totally separate things.
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Old 6th February 2023, 16:10   #41
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
XP95 is ethanol blended already. It is very much possible to have high octane rating in an ethanol blend.

Octane rating and ethanol blending are two totally separate things.
This is worrisome for sure. I hope then they would continue with E10 and 20 both. Otherwise, many of us might be looking at expensive repairs. Manf might wash off their hands saying they never said they support E20 and its Govt's call to stop E10 distribution
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Old 6th February 2023, 17:02   #42
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Explainer: What is Ethanol blending petrol & India's E20
TNN | Feb 6, 2023, 02.59 PM IST
Attached Files
File Type: docx Ethanol Blending.docx (41.9 KB, 69 views)
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Old 6th February 2023, 18:33   #43
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Kindly retweet:

https://twitter.com/MallikRanajay/st...iUkhnB1_g&s=08

Maybe this will have better reach.

Hope not violating forum rules... In that case, may please be deleted!

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 6th February 2023 at 18:36.
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Old 6th February 2023, 19:44   #44
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Will there be an impact on the performance of vehicles due to E20?
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Old 6th February 2023, 19:53   #45
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Re: List all cars that are E20 and E20+ petrol compliant

Starting from the assumption that all vehicles being sold today are E10 compliant, meaning the engine parts such as rubber hoses and o-rings etc have been engineered to be capable of handling the solvency effects of 10% ethanol in the fuel.

From an engineering perspective there are two points that come to mind:

1. There is always a factor of safety built into any component that is engineered and then manufactured. A common factor of safety is between 1.7-2.5, on top of which a margin for errors during manufacturing is added, which would mean that even if the component has been built for 10% ethanol blend, including the margin, this number should safely cross 20% limit for E20 fuel. There will be higher number of failures for sure, but by and large it would still be manageable.

2. Point #1 was a theoretical exercise from the engineering point of view. Now lets try a practical approach. When any material is synthesized or developed, such as the rubber for the o-rings or the lining of the fuel hose, it is always made from the perspective that it should work for the largest group of applications with the smallest amounts of change. Hence, the material being manufactured, the rubber in my example, is generally of a higher spec than the requirement, and as a result, there it can be taken as yet another over engineering added to the factor of safety mentioned earlier in point 1.

From the above two points, I would like to put forward that the E20 blend of fuel is not as dangerous an issue as what some of my fellow TeamBHPians believe it is going to be.

An article which says something similar:

https://ftloscience.com/guide-petrol...0term%20issues.

Opinions always welcome...
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