[volkman10]

India beats Japan in the global car race.

India has overtaken Japan as the third largest light vehicle market in the world in 2022, led by a strong recovery in demand for personal mobility and last-mile deliveries after Covid-19.

A strong bounce back in the demand for personal mobility and last-mile deliveries after the pandemic have helped India overtake Japan in car sales for the first time ever.
India is now the third largest auto market in the world.




Retains No. 4 position in light vehicle production:

In terms of output, India has retained its position as the fourth largest light vehicle producer with an output crossing a milestone of over five million units for the first time ever — the actual numbers are likely to be officially published within a fortnight's time.

India already is the largest market for Suzuki outside of Japan. It also figures in the top three markets for Hyundai and Kia and Skoda Auto and it was in the top five markets for Renault global in 2021. And for the others, it is set to play a bigger role in the future.
The stakes for India have especially gone up after the Russia-Ukraine crisis. The likes of Hyundai, Kia, Renault, Nissan and Skoda-Volkswagen have all exited the country. But the future growth potential lies in a few select markets like India. As budgets get redefined after the Russia crisis, India may end up gaining from it.

While the shortage of chips and supplies from China did disrupt production and supplies in the first half of 2022, the way India managed the Russia-Ukraine crisis helped the country to manage inflationary challenges well.

Apart from the economic headwinds of inflation, there are structural challenges the country continues to face. The rising congestion and increased pollution in Indian cities are one of the major challenges in front of the government and policymakers. Even as the penetration is low, the vehicle density in India is on the rise. It has increased from 15 cars per thousand in 2010 to 36 cars per thousand in 2022.

Link

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by volkman10

It also figures in the top three markets for Hyundai and Kia and Skoda Auto and it was in the top five markets for Renault global in 2021

Interesting. Skoda doesn’t sell particularly well in India but despite that, India is the third largest market?

[Amrik Singh]

And why not ?
After all, we are probably the only country in the World who are putting the Car in scrap after 15 years of its registration, irrespective of its condition. What our idiot Politicians and Honourable SC think is that the entire Car is responsible for pollution. Yes - entire ! Differential, Seats, Tyres, Dashboard - in fact hundreds of different parts of the Car. All must be scrapped.
Why not replace or overhaul just only the Engine, if it really is contributing to the pollution ?

[ChiragM]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

And why not ?
After all, we are probably the only country in the World who are putting the Car in scrap after 15 years of its registration, irrespective of its condition.

Agreed and I understand where this frustration is coming from. It would be frustrating for any owner in this situation.

But that is just NCR. Let's look at the whole country here. I am not sure what share NCR has on Indian sales.

Despite so many headwinds the industry has faced over the past few years (I don't even want to start naming them, but mainly the shooting raw material prices and the Russia-Ukraine war in the past 12 months), I think we need to appreciate the fact that the market grew by such a big margin to become the third largest car market. It is also a record year for India with 3.8 million units, which I think is the highest ever. All this while we see most automotive markets in the world struggling.

Any idea why there is an increase in demand? More disposable income? The market is no longer cost sensitive and entry level vehicle sales have fallen and more people want premium cars.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Interesting. Skoda doesn’t sell particularly well in India but despite that, India is the third largest market?

I think what they meant is that India is top 3 in all the countries that they sell in. If you look at volumes, other markets are pretty small and even if Skoda has a larger market share in country X, the volumes (number of units) would still be low. Just like that country Y may have a huge automotive market but Skoda may not be selling their cars in that market. Looking at it this way, they say India is in their top 3. Also, I think Skoda India had a record year in 2022.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by volkman10

India has overtaken Japan as the third largest light vehicle market in the world in 2022, led by a strong recovery in demand for personal mobility and last-mile deliveries after Covid-19.

Retains No. 4 position in light vehicle production:

In terms of output, India has retained its position as the fourth largest light vehicle producer with an output crossing a milestone of over five million units for the first time ever — the actual numbers are likely to be officially published within a fortnight's time.

Thank you @ volkman10 for always sharing interesting pieces of news and data. You are one of the most useful posters on Team BHP.

Can you clarify what units are being measured in the first table versus the second table. Is the first table only cars and the second table cars +LCVs?

It is fashionable in some quarters in India to decry everything this country achieves. Even achievements are converted into rants. I for one am immensely proud we are climbing the ladder in automotive industrial output and will clearly be slotted in number 3 position for the foreseeable future. Basically the three largest populations and the three largest GDPs {by PPP} are leading. Of course we have the challenges of need for wider urban roads, parking space, 100X more road discipline, 10X more driving training and so on. But having witnessed first hand where we were in 1982 in the pre-Maruti days to where we are today I am confident we will get there in a generation. A generation might be an eternity for a young person but it is a moment in the life journey of a nation. Eventually our solution is not more cars but better and more extensive public transport. While a lot still needs to be done even our public transport has improved in leaps over the last 20 years let alone 40 years. While all this may sound impossible it isn't so. It only sounds as impossible today as becoming 3rd or 4th largest sounded in 1982 when all 4+ wheeler production in the country was just a little above (IIRC) 300,000 units - cars, LCVs, trucks et al - constrained by bad laws, lack of Forex, lack of capital, denial of access to technology by our own Govt and need to seek permission for everything.

So when the likes of Ford etc announce they are quitting the Indian market as a businessman my take is the fault is with Ford not the market. If they can't figure out how to operate in the 3rd largest/4th largest and fastest growing market then woe to them. Businesses and products are built around markets and not the other way around.

I am thrilled to death to be witnessing these times after having seen the nadir 4 decades ago.

Just think, 34 years ago our domestic air transport's high cost was only matched by pathetic service and poor coverage and weak punctuality. You lumped it or walked. Today we are spoilt for choice, connectivity and airports are improving like never before and our domestic airline service by and large is miles ahead of say that of the US of A. The service is better than many parts of Europe too and much cheaper in real terms than 33 years ago. We'll get there in road transport too.

[NJ_9]

During my discussion with few Japanese who were working for Honda , interesting point that they mentioned was, Parking charges in Japan are so high that people do not buy cars and depend mostly on public transport. Considering this situation to be mostly in metro cities where the majority of the younger population are located, Japs do love their cars don't they. Rural crowd is driving their sales.

Manufacturing scenario in India is in very good space at the moment and we should continue to seize this opportunity to surge ahead and be a true global player. Of course our govt needs to focus on better public transport to ease congestion on roads, also improve the infrastructure so that people can buy and experience cars like they are meant to be. We need more satellite towns around big cities to help achieve this. Anyway let us congratulate ourselves with all the obstacles we still move forward.

[saikishor]

I don't really feel happy or proud about this news. In the name of localisation and make in india schemes and what not, manufacturers are getting away by making crap quality cars at sky high prices. I visited a Toyota showroom and was surprised at the kind of quality they offer on their Hyryder. Sure you might argue it is a Maruti and what not but at the end of the day it costs 20-25 lacs.

I own a Chevrolet, and I have been searching for a Cruze since the past 2 months. I have a soft spot towards Chevy. They made good quality cars when they were there. Not all of them but atleast some of them. Remembering the fact that back in 2016-2017 a Cruze costed 16-19 lacs and a Hexa costed 19-30 lacs makes me sad as to why we didn't consider an upgrade back then.

Point is not about those cars, but the quality carmakers are offering these days. Ford was also a good company which offered quality cars. I mean the general build quality is lacking in cars these days. I cannot imagine to what extent it will go in the coming days.

VW 2.0 cars are crap cars with all due respect. I had praised a Slavia earlier, but now I regret doing so. Older VW cars were true blue VW's. Their diesel's were workhorses. I lost all interest in VW cars after reading the Kerala polo incident and the slavia refund incident.

Hyundai had amazing cars back in the day. But now? Horrible build quality. I checked out a i20 Nline some time ago at a showroom. When I closed the door, the window as vibrating. Talk about this on a 14 lac rupee premium hatchback.

I might be making a useless argument here, but what I want to say is that we shouldn't be happy about numbers with quality degrading, and automakers leaving. GM left, Ford left, Fiat production ceased, Honda has no proper roadmap. Still, we have some new entrants like Jeep, Kia, MG, Citroen. I hope these guys offer some quality cars atleast.

I am sorry if I haven't conveyed my point properly. I am failing to phrase it in a proper manner.

[ruzbehxyz]

The country is progressing but I’m not really happy with this car production news. What cars do we have to choose from ? How much taxes we pay for any car ? Roughly about 50% for SUVs and luxury cars.

GM left, Ford left, Fiat stopped production and God knows whose next. Only the super rich can buy luxury cars which otherwise would be normal cars in other countries. We still prefer to buy unsafe cars for the sake of mileage.

More than cars we need better infrastructure, pot hole free roads, better road discipline, better road safety, better Insurance companies, better public transport and much more.

[shortbread]

Great news, would love to see India overtake Japan to the production no.3 position as well.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

After all, we are probably the only country in the World who are putting the Car in scrap after 15 years of its registration, irrespective of its condition.

I don't think this is a big contributor. Persons forced to buy a new car even though their old one was to their liking but had to be scrapped will be very low. Also, not all such people would have bought a new car.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I for one am immensely proud we are climbing the ladder in automotive industrial output and will clearly be slotted in number 3 position for the foreseeable future.

Sir, we must be number 3 in the total number of cars produced and not value in my opinion. Nevertheless, a big achievement considering the purchase of Cars was a super luxury. Buying a small car like Maruti 800 used to be a big occasion, or limited to only a few folks as late as 2000.

But I am sure, given the progress, we are doing on other fronts and with the growing aspirations of the middle class and also more options from the manufacturers, the average car sale price will increase too in near future. Who would have thought that a company like Toyota, which has never considered our market seriously, would launch Hybrid, Made in India products.

On the subject, one reason for slower growth/ degrowth in the other markets can be due to the focus on public transport and the rising living costs. A household has to consider the cost of buying a car, monthly insurance, fuel and then repairs; it's no wonder why most millennials will pick a shared commute rather than an individual car. And one can rent out for those occasional trips just the way we make hotel bookings.

I won't be surprised if the governments make public transport free within metros in the near future and the car sales turn negative in most matured markets.

So when the likes of Ford etc announce they are quitting the Indian market as a businessman my take is the fault is with Ford not the market.

I won't fault the FORD entirely, either. It's all about priorities; one can continue operating at wafer-thin margins or take a conscious call to focus on the markets one earns more is entirely your choice. It's tough to understand and operate in our Market. Even Toyota could learn this only when they collaborated with Maruti.

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by NJ_9

During my discussion with few Japanese who were working for Honda , interesting point that they mentioned was, Parking charges in Japan are so high that people do not buy cars and depend mostly on public transport.

Pretty much this. The Taxes are high enough to dissuade buyers in Japan but the last mile connectivity is too good for anyone to want to pay taxes for owning and parking a vehicle.

On the other hand despite big boasts by ministers here a lot of people have to buy a vehicle for emergency purposes because everything shuts down after 8pm in most towns. Forget last mile connectivity there's literally no trains connecting certain cities even if you asked the government to provide with a petition. If I have to travel between my wife's hometown 30kms off Kochi airport and my house 10kms from an infamous airport, there's no direct flight connecting the two and I have to take a flight to Bangalore or Mumbai and then fly either way which takes more than 6 hours to fly 400kms.

I live in a tier 2 city that has no public transport(bus or auto park) passing through my neighborhood even though I'm in a high end locality in the heart of the town.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by saikishor

I don't really feel happy or proud about this news. In the name of localisation and make in india schemes and what not, manufacturers are getting away by making crap quality cars at sky high prices. I visited a Toyota showroom and was surprised at the kind of quality they offer on their Hyryder. Sure you might argue it is a Maruti and what not but at the end of the day it costs 20-25 lacs.

I own a Chevrolet, and I have been searching for a Cruze since the past 2 months. I have a soft spot towards Chevy. They made good quality cars when they were there. Not all of them but atleast some of them. Remembering the fact that back in 2016-2017 a Cruze costed 16-19 lacs and a Hexa costed 19-30 lacs makes me sad as to why we didn't consider an upgrade back then.

Point is not about those cars, but the quality carmakers are offering these days. Ford was also a good company which offered quality cars. I mean the general build quality is lacking in cars these days. I cannot imagine to what extent it will go in the coming days.

VW 2.0 cars are crap cars with all due respect. I had praised a Slavia earlier, but now I regret doing so. Older VW cars were true blue VW's. Their diesel's were workhorses. I lost all interest in VW cars after reading the Kerala polo incident and the slavia refund incident.

Hyundai had amazing cars back in the day. But now? Horrible build quality. I checked out a i20 Nline some time ago at a showroom. When I closed the door, the window as vibrating. Talk about this on a 14 lac rupee premium hatchback.

I might be making a useless argument here, but what I want to say is that we shouldn't be happy about numbers with quality degrading, and automakers leaving. GM left, Ford left, Fiat production ceased, Honda has no proper roadmap. Still, we have some new entrants like Jeep, Kia, MG, Citroen. I hope these guys offer some quality cars atleast.

I am sorry if I haven't conveyed my point properly. I am failing to phrase it in a proper manner.

I really regret not picking up an Endeavour before Ford left. I think the sudden surge in badly made, cost cut cars with obscene prices also has to do with how some manufacturers decided to take advantage of the lax inspections, standards and customer rights here to cheap out on even the most basic component of a car such as the steel used and having no quality inspections or rejections from the factory. How is any manufacturer making cars the right way supposed to compete with someone who has an unfair advantage by skimping out on the cost of basic structural integrity? Worst part is that they even get to advertise higher mileage because of the lower weight of the car. I don't know why this "cheat code" hasn't been banned yet. Also including new cars that are lemons right from the factory being delivered to customers and then making them run around, wasting their time and money because it's more cost effective than having quality inspections or replacing their car because most customers will just give up and sell it off for a massive depreciation hit rather than fighting a case in court for years.

[Jeroen]

I am a little confused here. The thread title is about India becoming the 3rd largest car maker in the world. But the table is about the market. When I check the link the original article is also about market, not manufacturing. So in plain English, to me one is the total number of cars sold in India, the other is the total number of cars manufactured in India.

I know quite a few cars are produced in India. But how many still imported. Is market in this context equivalent with producing. I don’t think it is so for the other countries mentioned?

Or am I missing something?

Jeroen

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

On the subject, one reason for slower growth/ degrowth in the other markets can be due to the focus on public transport and the rising living costs. A household has to consider the cost of buying a car, monthly insurance, fuel and then repairs; it's no wonder why most millennials will pick a shared commute rather than an individual car.

Western markets are seeing slowing car sales for a multitude of reasons, prime among them is that credit isn't cheap anymore. These countries were printing money, near to 0%, easy borrowing days are over. Car loans and lease deals look very expensive for people addicted to the quantitative easing days.

On top of that during the supply chain shortage new car prices have gone through the roof and supply of cheaper models have been strangled. With the impending recession in the West, these markets will continue to shrink.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

---

Can you clarify what units are being measured in the first table versus the second table. Is the first table only cars and the second table cars +LCVs?

--

I guess the first table depicts the Auto market, while the second is the light vehicle production statistics.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

-- The thread title is about India becoming the 3rd largest car maker in the world. But the table is about the market. ---

Thanks, the title reflects the change now.

And here is how the definition of vehicles as seen in the chart.