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Old 27th January 2023, 11:42   #436
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
One thing I am not liking about the Jimny is the chain drive transfer case. The Gypsy has a gear driven transfer case. A chain drive transfer case is kind of the norm nowadays in many large 4x4 SUV like Fortuner/Hilux/Isuzu etc the difference is that in those vehicles the chain drives only the front axle in 4WD mode. In Jimny both axles are driven by chain i.e., even in 2WD mode. Gear driven transfer cases are generally considered stronger. Another plus for the Gypsy is the neutral position in transfer case, Jimny doesnt have a transfer case neutral, so won't get stuck in neutral :-)

The 4AT in Jimny is unique to the Jimny and is not shared with larger 4x4 including the first gen Vitara XL7 V6. People comparing Jimny 4AT with cars like Ciaz/Ertiga K15B 4AT forgets that these vehicles have small lightweight FWD 4AT transaxle with lower drive train loss and road spec gearing compared to Jimny's complex (and heavier) drive train and compromised (for road) gearing. Jimny is neither going to be as efficient nor as cruisable as a Ciaz or Ertiga at highway speeds. Jimny has longitudinal engine mounting and every other Maruti have transverse engine mounting and that's why the 6AT of Brezza/GV/Fronx is not going to happen on the Jimny, no need to wait for that

Btw i booked the Jimny 4AT White on 12th (launch date) afternoon with the dealer in Tvm, on 13th it was entered in the Maruti system and received their confirmation. But all depends on the price.
The previous Jimny got both transferí too, first With gears, and not so much later, With chains, is nothing new
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Old 27th January 2023, 11:55   #437
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
I don't understand what exactly people are griping about with the old 4 speed gearbox. Most folks seem to have a problem because it is old - that's it.

It's only weaknesses are poor in-city FE and tricky acceleration & overtaking.

It's strengths are that it's 4th cog has a way more relaxed gear ratio than most manual 5th gears do (and hence will cruise super-relaxed on the highway) and it is a cheap gearbox at Rs.80K for a full replacement (worst-case scenario). Every other AT gearbox will cost 4 lacs minimum for a full replacement.

I love this particular gearbox.

And I couldn't believe it but the Jimny seems to come with the older, enthusiast-friendly K15B engine. The new K15C engine wheezes away on the new XL6 and Brezza and is clearly tuned for FE. Mated to the older engine, the 4 speed unit should do just fine.
I own a 6AT XL6. From specs and usage point one big problem i see with 4AT is lack of a manual shifter. For off-roading purposes it does not matter much but most people at-least people like me, there is a significant distance to be covered on tarmac to reach hills or good off-roading zone. I did a 5k trip from Noida to Goa and back recently with numerous occasions needing an overtake. I found a stark difference in what many reviewers highlighted about this engine and ignored the practical bits. For overtakes i generally hold in 10-2 position. Having the paddle shifters does not require any effort to shift via stick. Many people might have mocked Maruti for giving paddle shifter in a slow engine. But looking at it from practicality point, it is easy to shift manually for overtakes without any discomfort.

This option of a manual shifter in an AT gearbox is not something that can be ignored. Dropping a gear or two manually one can have easy overtakes on real world highway speeds. Or at least perceive it to be not that challenging.

With your experience of 4AT, did you observe that on hard pressing the accelerator, it shifts down on its own to reach higher rpms and gain some quick acceleration? If even this is missing in addition to a manual shifter, it will be a painful experience on highways.

I recently drove a friend's K15B Brezza manual. If I were to choose today, I would prefer a manual Jimny.

Last edited by saurabh041086 : 27th January 2023 at 12:16.
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Old 27th January 2023, 11:59   #438
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by wacso View Post
The previous Jimny got both transferí too, first With gears, and not so much later, With chains, is nothing new
Yes i know, the previous Jimny too. The previous Jimny also had an electric (switch) selector transfer case sold for a while in some regions. Then they went back to a manual lever.

The Gypsy only had gear drive transfer case. Its better. Kits are available for the current Jimny if one wishes to replace the chain drive transfer case with old gear drive transfer case.

Last edited by Sankar : 27th January 2023 at 12:02.
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Old 27th January 2023, 12:15   #439
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Yes i know, the previous Jimny too. The previous Jimny also had an electric (switch) selector transfer case sold for a while in some regions. Then they went back to a manual lever.

The Gypsy only had gear drive transfer case. Its better. Kits are available for the current Jimny if one wishes to replace the chain drive transfer case with old gear drive transfer case.
They went back to manual lever in the new Jimny, With totally straight movement to change between modes

But in previuous Jimny, when they go into electric switches, they keep It until end of production in 2018
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Old 27th January 2023, 15:32   #440
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by saurabh041086 View Post
With your experience of 4AT, did you observe that on hard pressing the accelerator, it shifts down on its own to reach higher rpms and gain some quick acceleration? If even this is missing in addition to a manual shifter, it will be a painful experience on highways.
Same case with me. As I see more and more long trips in the future, a significant portion shall include plains.

While I want an AWD because I usually go a lot to the Himalayas and rural areas, that doesn't mean I don't need the right mix of power and torque for highways that are expanding and where 120 KM/Hr will be the norm in the near future, and that might even increase to 130-140 KM/hr in the long run.

The way truckers (and busers) drive on highways, the right torque and power are significantly used.

My idea is to buy and keep the car for good 10+ years so I don't want to buy the wrong vehicle. I can wait for some time - say 2 years or so. Hence, the decision to wait for customer reviews before taking the next step.

Of course, had Jimny AT got some powerful engine such as the Boosterjet 1.4L Swift sport gets, I probably would have postponed my timeline to buy significantly..

I think this Vitara engine (K15C with 24 kWh battery and the combined power of 116 PS) is the future of Jimny, which might launch in Europe as a Hybrid Vehicle in 2024 (followed by other geos including India) - https://electricvehicleweb.com/2021-...itara-details/

Last edited by RDS : 27th January 2023 at 15:57.
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Old 27th January 2023, 16:19   #441
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

There is a void in market for the Petrol, AWD, AT, Reliable combination in 15-20 Lakhs price range.

And that is the reason many traveling enthusiasts from urban areas are interested in the Jimny. We all are not off-roading enthusiasts. We may not engage the 4L ever. All we needed is a vehicle which can come out of the situation if got stuck due to sudden snowfall, mud and slush, climbing steep inclines and tackling bad broken gravel and sand filled roads/ routes.

And these are the reasons why we have doubts on the 4 speed AT, comfort level for extra large body frame passengers for long highway drives, luggages for 7 days, highway manners, triple digit speed etc etc etc.

A Grand Vitara/ Hyryder AWD, or Duster AWD, XUV700 AWD with Petrol engine+AT in 15-20 Lakhs range would have solved requirements of non off-roading travel enthusiasts.

At the end, Jimny AT seems to be acceptable for me and wife, if we can occupy the front seats comfortably for a 400-500 km long journey (that's the maximum route length I target to drive per day); and if the ride on highway is not super bumpy. And most importantly, if the OTR price is within 14 Lakhs @ Gurgaon [I need to keep my present car and hence can't afford if Jimny is priced like Brezza or Grand Vitara]. I have absolutely no doubt on its capabilities. If large frame Europeans and Australians can occupy the front seats, we also can.

Last edited by RijuC : 27th January 2023 at 16:34.
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Old 27th January 2023, 20:55   #442
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

Jimny plans for Europe.

Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023-capture.jpg


Hustler EV for India (possible)

Name:  0.JPG
Views: 605
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- Suzuki is also planning a mild hybrid version of the Jimny, allowing it to be sold in Europe as a passenger vehicle (late 2023/24?)

- The EV version of the Jimny for Eu will arrive by 2030

- India is likely to get the Hustler in EV form by 2030

- Jimny EV plans for India is not yet known but could be beyond 2030.


Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 27th January 2023 at 20:58.
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Old 27th January 2023, 21:49   #443
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

Been scouring around for more information and learnt a lot here:

https://www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/i...ory:FAQ_-_gen4
https://www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/i...ems_-_overview
https://www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/i...p/Death_Wobble
https://www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/i...7s_with_Jimnys

Apparently the "Death Wobble" is something we must be aware of especially around 80 KM/H as that's the sweet spot for the engine and that's the spot which I intend to keep the vehicle at since I prefer defensive driving.

Scares me as this is going to be our only vehicle and my plans are to travel on highways/city trips with family (aged parents) and occasional offroading with local 4x4 enthusiasts.

Note: I learnt there to keep the tyre pressure lower at about 24-26 PSI and not the standard 30 which almost everyone blindly keeps

The Do and Don't page has an extensive list of things to keep in mind when on this vehicle and also has a lot of humor but its serious as well.

If there's someone here with more experience, can give further inputs to help me keep calm about this vehicle, that'll be amazing. But I'm glad to be aware of these and gain more knowledge which I'm happy to share. It is also scaring me enough to not opt for this vehicle keeping the safety in mind.
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Old 27th January 2023, 22:27   #444
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by AjayV View Post
Been scouring around for more information and learnt a lot here:
Apparently the "Death Wobble" is something we must be aware of especially around 80 KM/H as that's the sweet spot for the engine and that's the spot which I intend to keep the vehicle at since I prefer defensive driving.
I had also stumbled upon this page but saw that this was mostly observed in Gen 3, that too not after 2019. This note is there on the same page, unless I missed something or the engineers have resolved it
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Old 27th January 2023, 22:54   #445
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Originally Posted by OPMaurya View Post
I had also stumbled upon this page but saw that this was mostly observed in Gen 3, that too not after 2019. This note is there on the same page, unless I missed something or the engineers have resolved it
I read somewhere on reddit that the steering dampener helps with that and its included in the latest gen. Not sure if "India" specific model includes that *cough*cost cutting*cough*.

Also read somewhere that the deathwobble is something that will happen to all vehicles with solid front axel and isn't experienced by 99% of the people with higher end vehicles as the speed range is above around 140+ which rarely folks achieve. Just that the Jimny is highlighted as its sweet spot is around 80KMPH and that's the spot for the deathwobble for this vehicle.

I really hope the highway performance is better with the longer wheelbase and 100KGs heavier at the rear end. Only a TD will answer all questions.

So, I got a call from the dealer today asked me to make a booking and I was shocked as they got my details because I made the booking online.

Booked a Bluish Black, manual Zeta as aftermarket mods will hopefully flood the market in a year and I don't see any point in paying premium for some bells and whistles which I don't see the point in, coming from a 2000 Santro LS2 ZipDrive, this should be a luxury

Anyways he informed me that the Pricing will be revealed in March and Vehicle will be available in April. Taking that with a pinch of salt as bookings crossed over 11K (assuming 12K now) and 6M waiting according to some articles posted above, I'm going to relax and let it come when it comes.

It's like ordering something on an international webiste and forgetting about it till it reaches your doorstep - a gift from your past you to your future you

Quote:
Originally Posted by OPMaurya View Post
I had also stumbled upon this page but saw that this was mostly observed in Gen 3, that too not after 2019. This note is there on the same page, unless I missed something or the engineers have resolved it
Here's the only one I could find:



also, from the same article, looks like Jimny is an exception.

Quote:
  • Most all-terrain vehicle models with SFA suspension are significantly larger than Jimny (Land Rover Defender, Jeep Cherokee, Nissan Patrol, Toyota Land Cruiser 80, etc.) and they use much larger wheels.
  • Therefore, the speed range where the vibration resonance in their front suspension would occur would probably be (guessing) in the range 130-180 km/h.
  • Since those vehicles are rarely if ever driven that fast, 99% of their owners will not experience death wobble even if their suspension components are quite worn.
  • Since Jimny and Samurai are much smaller, they develop vibration resonance in the most "inconvenient" speed range of 60-80 km/h.
  • With (a stock) Jeep Wrangler, which is slightly larger, the death wobble has been reported to typically occur between 80 and 100 km/h.
I really hope people read the manual carefully and this link carefully before using our Jimny, I expect some "biased" reviews in future of this vehicle from our "influencers".

Last edited by Eddy : 28th January 2023 at 02:30. Reason: Merged back to back posts. Thanks.
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Old 28th January 2023, 02:02   #446
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
- Suzuki is also planning a mild hybrid version of the Jimny, allowing it to be sold in Europe as a passenger vehicle (late 2023/24?)

- The EV version of the Jimny for Eu will arrive by 2030

- India is likely to get the Hustler in EV form by 2030

- Jimny EV plans for India is not yet known but could be beyond 2030.
BEV (Battery EV) plans for India and Europe are similar as far as Jimny is concerned - 2030 types.
HEV (Hybrid EV) plans might be different, however I doubt they will remain different in say 3 years or so.

With increasing competition from EV and Strong Hybrid vehicles (AWD options at better rates due to taxation benefits), 5-door thar, and stringent BS6+ norms (Jimny stopped selling in Europe because K15B engine couldn't meet emission norms and hence the need to bring in Hybrid), and recession for some time, Suzuki would be hard-pressed not to launch the already available upgraded hybrid version in India - say the next upgrade in 2025 end-2026.

However, time will tell.

I have done my initial analysis and it seems this Jimny won't meet my minimum requirements as these include stable cruising speed of 120KM/hr with usual accelerations for overtaking on highways.

In any case, my next purchase is planned for 2025 types so I will wait to see the best options available then (until and unless some other compelling vehicle launches that fits the pocket).

Last edited by Eddy : 28th January 2023 at 02:30. Reason: Fixed quotes
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Old 28th January 2023, 08:01   #447
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
One thing I am not liking about the Jimny is the chain drive transfer case.
Even when it comes to timing, gears are more sturdier than chains, However, at higher speeds they also make gear "whine" noise. That's probably the reason, why many manufacturers switch from gears to chain for transfer case, timing etc. One of the most reliable diesel engines made in India is the Mahindra MDI3200TC which used to come in the Bolero and Bolero pickup range. That comes with timing gears and hence the loudness of the engine. Another variant of the same engine was made for the MDI Scorpio sold for a couple of years and this was pretty much the MDI3200TC with a chain drive which made it much more silent.

Come to think of it, a CVT Tranfer case is pretty much chain driven and is able to handle 400 odd lb ft or Torque. My Montero transfer case is chain driven and handle-s 440 nm Torque. So, I don't think we should worry about the chain driven transfer case.

Besides the 4Speed AT, my other concern is the Jimny has the dated ball type steering knuckle which tends to wobble in the long run like used to happen in the MM540 range. Most vehicles which solid front axles sold now have moved to C type steering knuckles. I found it very strange that they are still using the ball type.


But as the saying goes, beggars cannot be choosers. The Jimny will be the only fairly modern/reliable/well made Solid Axle 4WD available in India and at this price point, anywhere in the world. So, we have to accept whatever Suzuki decides to offer us.

In my case, I had just picked up a 2019 4WD Bolero, just before it was discontinued when BS6 norms kicked in. So, I don't want to replace that yet. So, will wait and hope that Suzuki will add a cog to the AT .
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Old 28th January 2023, 10:29   #448
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

I booked the Jimny online last Saturday on 21-Jan-2023 and still haven't received the SOB Booking number. The dealership is clueless and they give me the standard answer of 'we've mailed Maruti and waiting for their response'.

Should I just go ahead and cancel the booking and make a new one with a different dealership?
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Old 28th January 2023, 10:44   #449
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Even when it comes to timing, gears are more sturdier than chains, However, at higher speeds they also make gear "whine" noise. That's probably the reason, why many manufacturers switch from gears to chain for transfer case, timing etc. One of the most reliable diesel engines made in India is the Mahindra MDI3200TC which used to come in the Bolero and Bolero pickup range. That comes with timing gears and hence the loudness of the engine. Another variant of the same engine was made for the MDI Scorpio sold for a couple of years and this was pretty much the MDI3200TC with a chain drive which made it much more silent.

Come to think of it, a CVT Tranfer case is pretty much chain driven and is able to handle 400 odd lb ft or Torque. My Montero transfer case is chain driven and handle-s 440 nm Torque. So, I don't think we should worry about the chain driven transfer case.
True that chains are smoother and lower power loss when compared to gear drives. Most transfer cases are chain driven now, Toyota shifted to chain drive T case in 1995 in their pickups ans SUVs. Personally if given a choice I would almost always accept some noise alongwith the longevity and dependability of gear drives in lieu of chains for timing or any other drives as it is one less thing to worry about in the long run. Sad to see the gear driven timing systems of old Mahindra and Isuzu engines replaced by chains for the sake of wee bit more efficiency and lower NVH.

My concern is particular about Jimny unlike Fortuner which has direct drive to rear axle through Tcase gear in 2WD mode, the Jimny with its offset rear pumpkin even in 2WD mode the torque to the rear axle has to go through the chain always. The cause for concern is because I came across few instances of new Jimnys Tcase repair on youtube and elsewhere and these weren't high mileage vehicles.

CVT chains are different they are push chains and behave like solid metal rod metal between the pulleys which clamp it with a large amount of hydraulic force. The drive is push type, unlike toothed chain and sprocket which is pull type. CVT push chain wears out from the sides where they meet the pulley along with pulley face. Push chains have no links or pins to stretch as individual metal pieces are arranged tightly one after another in an endless metal belt. Audi in their old CVT used a link type chain very similar looking to the silent chain used in transfer case, but that transmission was not a success.

Last edited by Sankar : 28th January 2023 at 10:51.
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Old 28th January 2023, 11:37   #450
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re: Maruti Jimny 4-door @ Auto Expo 2023

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Besides the 4Speed AT, my other concern is the Jimny has the dated ball type steering knuckle which tends to wobble in the long run like used to happen in the MM540 range. Most vehicles which solid front axles sold now have moved to C type steering knuckles. I found it very strange that they are still using the ball type.

But as the saying goes, beggars cannot be choosers. The Jimny will be the only fairly modern/reliable/well made Solid Axle 4WD available in India and at this price point, anywhere in the world. So, we have to accept whatever Suzuki decides to offer us.

In my case, I had just picked up a 2019 4WD Bolero, just before it was discontinued when BS6 norms kicked in. So, I don't want to replace that yet. So, will wait and hope that Suzuki will add a cog to the AT
Just before the Gypsy was going out of production I thought about getting one but then the news of Jimny was making the rounds and decided to hold back on the Gypsy since the modern Jimny can work out as a small car alternative and be acceptable to everyone. Finally in 2023 Jimny happened so without thinking much went and booked it. Yes there's not really an option of choice here. Thought process starts after booking it.

The front axle seems to be unchanged from Gypsy days except for the coil spring and probably better seal around the ball. In the end the front ball axle and kingpin would be as good or bad as the Gypsy. If Suzuki persisted in USofA selling Samurai's later iterations they probably would have done something about it, but they went broke and exited. [OT: MG410"W" is the result of Samurai rollover incident in UsofA which did a lot of good for the later models world over including current Jimny which has narrow track in Japan and wide track elsewhere].

In my expected use case front ball axle or kingpin shouldn't be a major cause of concern since any off roading would be only mild and no mud plugging. The 4AT is a limitation but having lived with the i10's 4AT and its underpowered engine I have a fair idea about what to expect with Jimny on the highway. It cant be bad than i10 4AT on the highway ...and won't be as good as a Brezza/Ciaz/Ertiga 4AT on the highway.

Last edited by Sankar : 28th January 2023 at 11:48.
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